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I have faced Orks at least every other game now, when in the past years, it was twice a year. Before it was all about how to beat MEQ armies. Well times have changed in 40K. I have lost mostly to the current Ork trend.


I predict I will be facing Orks a whole lot more as 6 guys now in our gaming club have started playing Orks. This includes at least three guys playing Nob Bikers from hell.


I want to gather a intelligence data base to develop and then disseminate some common tactics and helpful suggestions to other players, other than whinning and crying about how good and broke the Ork Codex is.


So can the Vets chime in please because I need the help and I am sure others do as well.

The first thing to remember about orks is that their range blows. Their max is 70" so anything that shoots farther than that is best used against them.

Avoid HTH, and blow them away with templates and pie plates.

halonachos wrote:The first thing to remember about orks is that their range blows. Their max is 70" so anything that shoots farther than that is best used against them.

Avoid HTH, and blow them away with templates and pie plates.

70in, that some pretty good range. I have the codex, they have lootas, shock gun, zap gun, boom gun, big shootas, that have good long range of over 36 inches. I try to avoid lootas or shoot them up as they usual also have a Big Mek with them shooting the big shock gun.

I play Space Marines and Eldar mostly. The Eldar reserve list has had some success against horde orks, howvever I have not faced the Nob heavy list with them, only with my marines. Then I had to use an all biker army with no success.

As a horde ork player, here's what I hate to fight:

- Cover ignoring blasts (Like whirlwinds)
- Stuff that assaults me before I assault it (Assault marines)
- Land Raiders
- Walkers in combat with me.
- Armies that shoot me then drive of.
- Heavy flamers.
- Nurgle's rot.

I don't know about nob bikers though.

Fighting Orks just plain suck. Most ork units consit of 25-30 Orks. I'm mean it will be very hard to kill off a whole unit of orks. without your unit rapid firing. and if the Orks are at that 12 inch mark then my friend it may be to late because once these stinken Orks get into hand-to-hand combat trust me when I say if you don't have and armour save of 3+ you might have a tough fight. So what I try to do is fire mostly template weapons such as frag missles or missles from a typhone laucher. but templates will cut the size of these mass units greatly. Death to Thrakka.

"Ya Can't Kill uz All" :Thrakka

My best advice: Surrender to the Green Tide and buy an Ork army.

After that a couple things to remember:

Ork LD sucks. Most units are 7 and the highest is going to be 9 or so. Try to force LD tests when units get below 11 in number.

Use your shooting to whittle numbers down. Don't rush to engage the Orks. Shoot them with Bolters and Heavy Bolters. Flamer them. Use Frag Missles. Whirlwinds are awesome against Orks. Template weapons are your friend. Forcing the mobs to spread out will create movement and firing solutions for the Ork player.

Ork hordes above 11 are Fearless. Not always a good thing. Don't be afraid to CC Orks, as when they lose they will almost certainly take casualties from the No Retreat rule.

Orks have an extremely difficult time dealing with Armor. Take a Land Raider or two. Land Raider Crusaders will deal death on a big scale with their Hurricane Bolters. Ironclad Dreads in pods are nasty for anyone, and hard to deal with for Orks.

If you are in a position of Charge or Be Charged, it's always the right answer to Charge. Orks are only S3 base so you will reduce your wounds right there.

First step to fighting Orks:

Don't be a slow.

That seems like terribly invaluable advice, but think about it. Many people are still living in the days of Las/Plas metagame with minimal squads, and consider 'Guys with a Flamer" to be sufficient anti-horde firepower.

5th edition is not 4th edition plus Flamers.

For an MEQ army, let's think about the things that don't get played much but really give Orks a bad day and are still viable against other armies:

Dakka Pred - 6 heavy bolter shots, 2 Autocannon shots, AV13, and BS4. That's pretty effing good anti horde firepower, and decent anti MEQ as well.

Whirlwinds - Duh. Just call it the AntiLoota. "BUT IT GETS SHOT UPPP!!!!" Park it nose to tail with your predator. Better yet, get two and park them both nose to tail with your Predator. Now you have 3+ cover saves that pin lootas and flatten mobs. The Whirlwind is a godsend to the Marine player fighting footslogging Orks.

Thunderfire Cannons - Useful against massed Boyz, Lootas, and even Nob Bikers. Use the tremor round to force dangerous terrain saves. I don't like them as much as Whirlwinds but they are deadly in certain scenarios.

That's how Marines kill mobs.

"BUT NOBZ BIKAZ"

This one is painfullly easy. Assault Terminators, point for point, will wipe the floor with Nob Bikers. A 400 point unit of AssTerms can take a 750 pt Nob biker squad charge and dish right back. If they have a Land Raider and get the charge off, then they should run them off the field with combat res. Instant death on two wound models is ruinously powerful. Nob Bikers have no good solution to Land Raider Crusaders moving 12" (so they hit on 6's) and disgorging 8 AssTerms.

In Summation:

3 Whirlwinds
2 Dedicated Land Raider Crusaders
16 Assault Terminators.

1400 points of Ork-crushing firepower with good flexibility and enough room to tailor your list to suit.

Eldar:
Scatter laser War Walkers and Seer Council on bikes.

Chaos:
Dual Lash Princes and Khorne Berzerkers, let combat resolution win your fights for you.

IG:
Wait a month and crush everything, or use tactics until then.

Tau:
Markerlight Crisis Suits with missiles and meltas.

Dark Eldar:
Skimmers with Lances

Having recently acquired one and not having fielded it against Orks: How does the Vindicator do against them? I mean it's big gun should do quite a good job at turning a green tide into a green puddle when they start to get close but before they can assault.

sourclams wrote:Don't be a slow.

Always good advice, in a lot of situations in life.

BlueGiant wrote:Having recently acquired one and not having fielded it against Orks: How does the Vindicator do against them? I mean it's big gun should do quite a good job at turning a green tide into a green puddle when they start to get close but before they can assault.

Good parts: Big Template, High S weapon. Good against big nasties like Biker Bosses and MegaNobz, Nobz.
Not so good parts: Low AP value wasted, somewhat fragile, short ranged. Largely wasted against rank and file troops unless they bunch up.

You are better off with a Predator with Autocannons and Hvy Bolter Sponsons and a Whirlwind. Both are absolute bargains for their point cost and have longer effective ranges than the Vindi.

The Vindicator, I like it really good weapon, but needs better work armour wise. with 13-F 11-S and 10-R just don't let the Orks assualt this tank or you going to have problems.

"To the darkness I bring Fire. To the ignorant I bring faith" Chaplain Grimaldus... 999.M41

LOTS OF SPAMMY SPAMM SPAMM!
(At least for Guard)

You can kill loads of orks with small suicide drop-troop flamer squads. Get a Hellhound, or better yet, get 3 of them.

My best advice for Guard when facing Orks would be: Wait for the new codex .


A.

SM drop podding armies with sternguard flamers and other stuff. Ally some daemonhunters with incinerators and watch the nob bikers drop like flies

Incinerators are the best anti-ork weapon, no invuls, AP4 and no cover, S5, two of those will kill a nob bike squad.

Nenya97 wrote:SM drop podding armies with sternguard flamers and other stuff. Ally some daemonhunters with incinerators and watch the nob bikers drop like flies

Incinerators are the best anti-ork weapon, no invuls, AP4 and no cover, S5, two of those will kill a nob bike squad.

Except that everything you just mentioned will die horribly fast to a Battelwagon Spam list, and are REALLY expensive points wise, so Horde Ork lists will overwhelm them fast.
Green tide? Wow...your burned up a squad of our friends...now die as we swarm you.
Dakka Orks? Wow...your burned up a squad of our friends...now die as we shoot you.

Bringing DH allies might (I repeat MIGHT) help against a Nob Biker list, but the points you spent for them (especially if you have Sterguard, too), just gimped you big time against pretty much any other Ork list.

Whirlwinds, LRCs, and Assault Termies will give you FAR more bang for your buck, no matter what type of Ork list you are facing.

You can't fight the ocean, or turn the tide. But you can easily divert it. A tankshocking landraider, filled with an appropriately nasty close combat unit (Assault terminators with chaplain would work wonderfully for this) should be able to get all of their attacks off while only receiving the blows of 3-4 Ork if you initiate a corner shock to corner charge combo.

The Orks can't move within an inch of the landraider, they'll be a bit squashed from the tankshock, and you are hitting them at their smallest point. Deal 10-15 wounds to the Ork mob, take the one they return, and watch them take another 10 or so wounds from combat resolution. Depending on the configuration of their battle lines, your terminators should be able to finish them off just in time to load up in the landraider and go find the next target.

Because this tactic assumes you'll have the broadside of a landraider pointed at the Orks most of the time, the crusader is not the best tank for it. A redeemer is much better suited to this task. Using two landraiders about 3 inches apart would create a much cheesier invincible corridor where your marines would be able to fight just the 4 or 5 orks on the edge of the gap. Meanwhile, the rest of the boys form an impassable barrier to the Ork player trying to get those landraiders.

Here are a few tips from a Tau player (which can be ported over to other armies):

1. Keep them honest. A single large blast template will make most ork players spread their boys out, making it more difficult for them to swarm you with multiple mobs at once.

2. Make 'em march. Used refused flank deployment in conjuction with the spread out mobs to buy yourself another round out of close combat or to be able to effectively focus your fire on a mob to start causing morale checks.

Good luck.

Gitzbitah wrote:
The Orks can't move within an inch of the landraider, they'll be a bit squashed from the tankshock, and you are hitting them at their smallest point. Deal 10-15 wounds to the Ork mob, take the one they return, and watch them take another 10 or so wounds from combat resolution. Depending on the configuration of their battle lines, your terminators should be able to finish them off just in time to load up in the landraider and go find the next target.

Emphasis mine...Wrong.

If you assault the orks, they can and must make their "defenders react" move. The only restriction on this is that they cannot come into contact with enemy units that are not involved in the assault (pg 34 BRB)...there is no 1" restriction on the "defenders react" move. This means that you will get alot of Orks still attacking you, even if you pull the maneuver off perfectly. They are allowed their full 6" movement to get as many orks close to you as possible, as long as they do not actually touch the LR.

Also, this tactic is flawed, because you cannot just "load up and go find the next target". If you did the assaulting, you must sit out of the LR for the entire Ork turn. This allows him to shoot you and launch a counter assault, as well as giving a Boss or Nobs the chance to carve you LR into little tiny pieces with thier PKs.

So, you see, even if you hop out and successfully stomp the boyz squad (which is completely probably, since boyz are lousy when they get assaulted). You have left yourself over exposed and just traded a LR and a Termie squad for one unit of boyz....not good math there

templates are great against all orks (no plas as it just kills you though)

whirls kick ass, 1-2 of these are great for thinning out mobs ready to be cut down by bolter fire.

vindi's are great against nob bikerz, allthough you need to get a good hit on them, which doesent allways go to plan.

shooty preds are great with 2 Hbolters and a autocannon.
if your lucky and collect BA then the baal does an even better job than the basic shooty pred.

crusaders are amazing against orks, redeemers are just as good, allthough you dont want to really get that close to them unless going for a tank shock.

if your kitting out an army to fight orks then basic tac squad would make sense to take flamers and Hbolters / missile (depending on preference)


kill all trukks and wagons as soon as possible, once orks are left foot slogging then they really do such if you have enough fire power.

Alerian wrote:

Gitzbitah wrote:
The Orks can't move within an inch of the landraider, they'll be a bit squashed from the tankshock, and you are hitting them at their smallest point. Deal 10-15 wounds to the Ork mob, take the one they return, and watch them take another 10 or so wounds from combat resolution. Depending on the configuration of their battle lines, your terminators should be able to finish them off just in time to load up in the landraider and go find the next target.

Emphasis mine...Wrong.

If you assault the orks, they can and must make their "defenders react" move. The only restriction on this is that they cannot come into contact with enemy units that are not involved in the assault (pg 34 BRB)...there is no 1" restriction on the "defenders react" move. This means that you will get alot of Orks still attacking you, even if you pull the maneuver off perfectly. They are allowed their full 6" movement to get as many orks close to you as possible, as long as they do not actually touch the LR.

Also, this tactic is flawed, because you cannot just "load up and go find the next target". If you did the assaulting, you must sit out of the LR for the entire Ork turn. This allows him to shoot you and launch a counter assault, as well as giving a Boss or Nobs the chance to carve you LR into little tiny pieces with thier PKs.

So, you see, even if you hop out and successfully stomp the boyz squad (which is completely probably, since boyz are lousy when they get assaulted). You have left yourself over exposed and just traded a LR and a Termie squad for one unit of boyz....not good math there

I think he means the movement they get while avoiding the tank. Because they have to go by the shortest route possible this spreads them out and lengthens thier usually roughly circular squad formation into a roughly line or "L" shaped formatin, allowing you to charge them and have the back 5-10 orcs not be within counter move of 2" of a member you assaulted. It's a fairly dodgey tactic and won't win you friends but it is legal.

If you drive into them at an angle you can effectivly use the land raiders hull to herd some members to the front and the rest to the side creating an L shaped formation around the raider. You get out the side door and assault the orcs toward the front(probobly only contacting about 2 or 3 orcs due to term base size and the positioning of the orcs), and now the orcs pile in and the ones on the side move their 6" and are still not able to reach the 2" magic zone becasue of the land raider "shield" and the other boys that piled up around the limited contact point.

It is also fairly situational depending on how the orc player moves their troops etc.

Also, depending on where the orcs other units are doing this fiarly ensures that the orc squad will be destroyed(during that turn or the orcs followup turn) and if there is no threat that can jump in that turn they just get in the raider again. CSM can use the land raider sweep with zerkers in this manner as well. The raider can be positioned to cut down on the amount of fire the squad has to wheather and if they wiped up(they should, espescially when you start adding kharne and abadabadingdong) they should be safe from charges by most threats.

Meph

rcm2216 wrote:I predict I will be facing Orks a whole lot more as 6 guys now in our gaming club have started playing Orks. This includes at least three guys playing Nob Bikers from hell.

Many FotM (Flavor of the Month) players don't have an understanding of the whole army.
They will probably just will play Nob Bikes or Shoota hordes.

To beat them, follow the advise earlier. Termies and template weapons.

Which type of Ork build would be tougher for a Mech list to fight against. Specifically Eldar and Space Marines

im a pretty good ork player, here is what trips me up:

1. good CC units: sure orks are good in CC, but if you have something with a good save and good attacks (LC termies come to mind) your gonna win combats, even against a 30 strong mob.

1.5 prolonged combat: against a t4 opponenet getting locked in is bad for me, str 3 just doesnt do it, and i find that 20 boyz swinging against marines takes down no more marines then the 2-3 i get from the PK nob at the end of combat.

2. landraiders: AV 14 is really good, the only way i reliably deal with it is PK'ing one if i get a chance )ive speared one a few times with ghazzie).

3. obvious cover ignorers. whirlies, flamers, etc, anything that chumps cover wil get me. in the case of whirlies i make them prime targets for snikrot and crew.

4. strength of fire. the backbone of my current ork lists are 4-5 squads of 30, shoot them down.

the ork book is really good, even i have to admit it.

rcm2216 wrote:Which type of Ork build would be tougher for a Mech list to fight against. Specifically Eldar and Space Marines

Speek Freaks are always a killer for Mech's, more tanks then sense, guarded boyz that get into assault range faster then jumping through the warp and lots of dakka still

Against horde Orks with IG in an objective game.


The easiest way to loose against Orks as IG is to get scared and play defensive.
Yes, as guardsmen, we like to make a line of guns and shoot at the advancing Ork horde till it breaks.
However, in 5ed, IG needs to actually take objectives, and if we just sit back, we give the Orks the board.

So how does IG push forward *into* Orks?

2 LRBT with a Hellhound(s) behind them, and a platoon of guardsmen in front of them. Make sure to keep the squads of IG spread out but not close enough to allow multicharge. Make sure you place the Hellhound(s) behind the LRBT so as to keep out of LOS to any Lootaz. This is your "spearhead" that will attempt to drive into enemy objectives.

You also need a firebase of HWS with some screen and ideally a Basi to shell Lootaz.


The Hellhound(s) is key. Not only do they bypass Grot screens, they also do extremely well against Nob Bikers (ignore their armor/cover).



In our new codex, expect to see Griffions, Eradicators, and perhaps even Hellhounds pounding Orks into the ground

I'm an ork player running a "hammer and anvil" strategy of shoota horde plus some fast assault elements.

Basic advice for any race playing against this kind of set-up

1. You will not be able to kill all those boys in shooting.

Most people think that sitting at the back of the table and unloading firepower into orks is enough to whittle away the whole green tide before they get to you. Hell no! With running orks they can average a turn 3 or 4 charge and the fast assault elements will almost certainly be upon you turn 2. You can't break them through shooting due to being fearless and there is NO army that can wipe out the 60 - 100 toughness 4 bodies that your average horde has in only 3 turns. SAFH marines and guard might do it, with luck, but oddss are they won't.

so if you intend to shoot the orks you need to do the following

2. Find some method of giving yourself more than 3 turns of shooting/

Refused flank strategies, shoot and scoot (if playing tau/eldar), lash, pinning, the thunderfire's difficult terrain shell will all give you that crucial 4th or 5th turn of shooting which might let a pure firepower force pull out a win. This is only if the ork player has no counter for any of these techniques. Armoured roadblocks like dreadnoughts will do a good job too. Pinning the leading mobs in place and slowing down the advance. Rhino walls and LR walls will work for this too.

Target priority helps too. You would be amazed by how many players ignore my trukks and bikes, trying to shoot my big mobs of boys even when my assault units are about to land on them. Cripple the fast stuff first whilst you have a chance and then start focusing on the boyz.

3. Bring appropriate firepower

Las/plas ain't gonna cut it. If you're goal is to try and shoot the orks to death then the average tourney build simply doesn't have the necessary firepower. Ypou really need to fill up on templates and multi-shot weapons. Cheap template platforms like whirlwinds are the best possible tool against orks. Particularly as they ignore cover, which is another crucial benefit. T4 and a hundred bodies is hard enough to shoot. T4, a hundred bodies and all rocking a 5 or 4 plus is nigh on impossible. Find some way of circumventing the cover.

4. Assault them.

Many players think "orks are good in assault, I need to shoot them." This is utterly wrong. The fastest way to kill orks, particularly the big horde groups is to assault them. Orks work in assault when they get to charge and bring a large number of attacks at str 4 into play. Charge them and you reduce their attacks and strength and up your own attacks. Anythign with the assault power of a standard space marine assault squad on upwards will almost certainly clear a full mob of 30 orks in one assault phase. You will melt through them, force a leadership check with a massive modifier, chase them on their crappy initiative and then cut them all down. You will almost certainly lose a few men but are igh on guaranteed to win the combat. Assault squads, striking scorps, berserkers, etc can all do this.

The only problem with an assault approach is that orks tend to have more units than you so your assault unit gets counter-charged and wiped out. There are several ways to deal with this.

- keep many assault units in reserve/held back so that after each one dies you add another until he has no squads left
- use mobility to stage an assault on his flank or another position that will reduce the odds of a counter-charge
- charge multiple mobs at once either with one big assault squad or by staging multiple assaults at once with different squads.


So basically fighting orks should always have the following pattern.

During the first few turns hold back but maneouver assault troops to launch that 3rd/4th turn charge. Focus fire on his fast assault units first, then slow/static but scary targets that will threaten your game plan and then finally start whittling down his boyz numbers.

If necessary adopt delaying tactics unitl you are ready to launch your charge.

Do this for the next two turns until you are in a position to launch a counter-assault or he is about to charge. Take out as many of his big mobs as possible by launching an assault.

hey presto, you win.

rcm2216 wrote:

I play Space Marines and Eldar mostly. The Eldar reserve list has had some success against horde orks, howvever I have not faced the Nob heavy list with them, only with my marines. Then I had to use an all biker army with no success.

With an eldar force try:

Full unit of Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent against Bikers. Str 8 AP 1 = no FNP and Instant Death on those two wounds. Fuegan in there, as well, for mopping up survivors that might assualt.

Warp Spiders. I know a lot off players hate them but I seriously suggest trying them on Orks. Two units of 9+ exarch causes Ork units to evaporate and with the extremely frustrating 2d6 hop away ork mobs can only gnash their teeth. 3+ save vs the sluggas helps *if* they can get any in range. I've been on both sides of that match up. Pretty one sided...

Has anyone had much success with Sisters vs Orks? I am finding the match-up is getting beyond tedious, after 12 months(-ish?) of non-stop massacres. Retributors proved fruitless, Seraphim and the Canoness are merely expensive speed-bumps, and my mech-units/Exorcists just cannot put out enough fire-power to do any serious damage. I am at the point where I am prepared to do just about anything, as I currently feel like forfeiting right at deployment. There has to be some option/strategy I have not considered!

ummmm...... I don't play them but aren't they army with the most flamers.

How many orks can I expect to face with hordey ork army @ 1500pts?

Somewhere between 100 and 200, depending on how many specialist are involved. A full 6 troop slots, or 180 boyz with nobs and powerklaws, comes in for under 1350 points.

Tau
1) Flechette Dischargers

2) Flamers.
- Seriously, a 34 pt. Crisis suit (2x Flamers and a throwaway BSF) can put a lot of hurt into a horde.