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Hi guys,

So I play LatD. Yes, good times. A fun change from the norm in my opinion.

Anyway, one of their HQ choices is a Greater Daemon.

Now, would you allow me to use a Greater Daemon from Codex: Chaos Daemons that would be summoned via an icon, or would you rather that I just use the Greater Daemon from Codex: Spiky Marines?

Because to be honest, the C: Spiky Marines just don't do it for me.

I'd still use all of the icon and summoning rules for Chaos, except that it would be a Greater Daemon from C: Chaos Daemons.

What are your opinions on this matter?

I say use the Greater Daemon from Caemons. More fun that way, not to mention far more interesting that Mr. Generic.

Eh, I probably would, but I don't really like cherrypicking rules that much. I've let people combine the CSM and Daemons codices before.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I say use the Greater Daemon from Caemons. More fun that way, not to mention far more interesting that Mr. Generic.

Which is the exact reason why.

Hell if my Bloodthirster is the exact same as some Great Unclean One!

@Sidstyler- I'm not a big fan of cherrypicking rules either. But in this case, it says that I can take a Greater Daemon, so I'm just seeing if I could use one from the C: Hahahaemons.

Thank you Abbadabbadadaboon or whatever your actual name is!

I just really don't like the Spiky Marines' Generic Daemons much.

Well, honestly the LatD 'codex' says to use Codex: Chaos Space Marines as a source, so I would say you are stuck with that.

But.....Since you can't really make a true LatD army list anymore because it is sooo incompatible with C: CSM, I say talk it over with your gaming group and go with that.

For starters, the cost of a greater daemon for spikey marines has ALWAYS included sacrificing a character model during the summoning. That part of the rules would have to be unnegotiable. On top of that, if the poor arthritic greater daemons that the spikey marines have to cope with these days aren't good enough, I think you're out of luck.

Or, if you're just playing friendly games in your group, take a look at the adversaries rules in the back of Codex: Daemonhunters, and see if those might not work.

But I'd just ask your group, rather than us.

Cruentus wrote:

But I'd just ask your group, rather than us.

That's the crux of the matter I suppose!

Will do. Just wanted to see other people's opinions on the matter.

My group is pretty lenient so it'll probably work.

Since you're interested, no, I would not allow it at any tournament I ran.

onlainari wrote:Since you're interested, no, I would not allow it at any tournament I ran.

Would you allow LatD at all, or just not the eamons GD?

Well I don't play at tournaments so I can't say that it really matters.

LatD aren't really tournament legal anyway.

Not that I care.

Simple answer...NO

Rules for that army say to use the CSM codex.

Personally, I think that since you are using Lost and the Damned which were a third edition book you should use the greater demons out of the third edition Chaos Marine Codex (the 2002 one not the 1999 one) which is what Lost and the Damned was intended to be used with anyhow. Since you're already using something that isn't supported in the current rules anyhow there's no need trying to shoehorn it into the current Chaos Codex.

Vladsimpaler wrote:I play LatD.

would you allow me to use a Greater Daemon from Codex: Chaos Daemons that would be summoned via an icon,

would you rather that I just use the Greater Daemon from Codex: Spiky Marines?

I'd still use all of the icon and summoning rules for Chaos, except that it would be a Greater Daemon from C: Chaos Daemons.

I wasn't even aware there were any LatD players still out there...

If you're playing C: Daemons, you definitely don't get to summon an improved Greater Daemon off of a cut-price Icon and then charge with it like a CSM Daemon. No way. You didn't pay the points or penalties for those options.

You should be using the generic Greater Daemon from C: SM, as that is the closest match to what was conceived when LatD was written. That also means that you should only have generic Lesser Daemons on the board.

I'm sure you would. You'd be paying much lower CSM icon prices, summoning and charging the same turn, and getting the most powerful Greater Daemon that is available in regular 40k.

As I see it, you're playing with a dead army, you can either:
- use the 4E Chaos Codex
- use the 5E CSM Codex
If you can convince your opponents to allow you to use C: Daemons, then you'll have to follow *all* of the restrictions therewith, and that means you should basically treat the C: Daemons stuff as a totally separate force that doesn't get to piggyback off of your cheap LatD Icons. If you want the power, you got to pay the price.

____

Otherwise, why don't you allow your opponet to cherrypick which units and rules he wants to build his army from? For example, I might want to play Eldar. But I think I'll take the 3E rulebook Iyanden option allowing me to field 6 Wraithlords as Troops. And as the previous Wraithlord doesn't have Wraithsight, I think I'll field those versions, rather than the current ones. But I like the new Reapers with their Sv3+, so I'll take those. OK?

JohnHwangDD wrote:

I'm sure you would. You'd be paying much lower CSM icon prices, summoning and charging the same turn, and getting the most powerful Greater Daemon that is available in regular 40k.

Um...I would make it so that they couldn't charge, and I'd be paying the Daemon price for Icons.

Contrary to what you're thinking, I don't really play for power. (Though I suppose it might look like I do)

Sure I don't mind paying all of the penalties. Increased icon cost, no summoning and assaulting on the same turn, etc.

Your final example is not the same thing as what I'm talking about. It's comparing apples to oranges.

And frankly, it's insulting.

Given that you NEVER stated that you were intending to abide by or apply appropriate restrictions, it is entirely fair to conclude that you intended to cherrypick the rules until I (and others) pointed it out as such.

If you feel insulted, IMO, you have only yourself to blame for asking a very poorly-worded question.

BTW, out of curiousity, which GD were you intending to use? Bloodthirster?

JohnHwangDD wrote:

BTW, out of curiousity, which GD were you intending to use? Bloodthirster?

This will probably make me look even worse, but yes.

It doesn't make you look worse at all Vlad. People like WRONGBADFUN and Grotsnik just want to take a moral high ground and claim their way of playing isn't just the correct way, but the 'right' way, and that anyone not playing their way is somehow being devious or trying to find an underhanded advantage.

Here's the best idea for you Vlad:

Use what you damn-well want. GW took our LatD army away, but you've clearly got a group that's cool enough to not mind that, and that's a good thing to have. If you want to take a Bloodthirster, be it from the Real Chaos Codex, or from Caemons, go ahead.

Neither of the two chuckleheads above can stop you, all they can do is waggle their fingers and call you a powergamer or whatever - ignore them.

Heh, figured as much.

But, as was stated above, work it out with your guys.

So this is friendly gaming then?

Since its by consent I'd go with the rules for Codex Demons with the old LATD rules if you're not including chaos marines, oblits, or vehicles. If using any of that I'd stick with the current chaos codex for greater demon and lesser demons (as well as the underlying summoning rules).

LATD with Codex demons is more in tune with the old LATD+ Demons lists whereas an LATD + Chaos marines is more appropriate for that style or a true mixed list.