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I got told the other day by a dude that if bring 3 rail heads to a 1500-1750 it's considered "cheesey" and people could refuse t play me at tournments are stuff... I find that friggin ridiculous!!! As railheads are the only blast marker weapons Tau have and it's really not all that "uber" considering their limited abilities. What do you guys think? Cheesey or not? I mean I guess imperial guards filling up their heavy slots with 3 blast marker tanks isn't cheesey and space marines with heaps of drop pods ain't cheesey....

Not cheesy.

^word

Not cheesy

OP: Start poll

People who say that 3 raiheads are cheesey are just whining all over the place 'cos they're totally scared by them

Ghetto_Fight wrote:I got told the other day by a dude that if bring 3 rail heads to a 1500-1750 it's considered "cheesey" and people could refuse t play me at tournments are stuff... I find that friggin ridiculous!!! As railheads are the only blast marker weapons Tau have and it's really not all that "uber" considering their limited abilities. What do you guys think? Cheesey or not? I mean I guess imperial guards filling up their heavy slots with 3 blast marker tanks isn't cheesey and space marines with heaps of drop pods ain't cheesey....

they are not cheesy at all. And yes, they can refuse to play you at a tourny... thats called conceeding and you instantly win.

People cry cheese when ever they lose... it happens

The tau are not in a position to be considered cheesy as their codex stands. Take your 3 tanks and enjoy them, just remember eggs and baskets.

Tau need to fill all 3 heavy slots to be competitive. Personally, I'd rather see 3 railheads than 9 broadsides, or a mix of railheads and broadsides, but that's me.

Tell them that you'll leave them at home for friendly play if you can similarily dictate what isn't allowed in your opponent's force.

Cheese is Necrons sequestered in 3 bunkers with a lord and tomb spider at the center point with a pair of monoliths and a C'tan... A trio of railheads is no cheesier than 9 oblits against anybody, or a trio 5-man 5 melta-toting Chaos Chosen squads outflanking an armor-heavy guard army.

There's no such thing as cheese.

No, not cheese. 3 BS 4 shots will kill one tank per turn on average.

Not cheesy... not what I'd field, but not cheesy.

Can you do it without breaking any rule in the Tau codex?

If answer is yes then it´s not cheese no matter what the other guy says.

M.

frgsinwntr - Your signature is pure win
Also, any conformation can be taken and really, if it beats you...learn to counter it! I lost plenty because I'm more about the modeling and painting than the actual game, but I wouldn't complain if someone oblit spammed me or railgun blasted me to death!

gak, i accidentally clicked yes
just so you know i meant no its not cheesy.

Miguelsan wrote:Can you do it without breaking any rule in the Tau codex?

If answer is yes then it´s not cheese no matter what the other guy says.

M.

I don't think you know what cheese is.

Cheese is not cheating.

Cheese is exploiting GW's miserable playtesting and inability to balance the game in order to destroy any chance of your opponent having fun.

that being said, 3 hammer heads with rail guns are not cheese IMHO.

Ah yes, this reminds me of something of days long gone by:

Its the rules of two men, you do it with every army.
2 Rhinos? Oh thats not too cheesy
2 Tomb Spyders? Oh thats not too cheesy
2 Heavy Destroyers? Oh thats not too cheesy
2 Chimeras? Oh thats not too cheesy
2 Wartrukks? Oh thats not too cheesy
2 Killa Kanz? Oh thats not too cheesy
2 Immolators? Oh thats not too cheesy

2 Wraithlords? OK THATS CHEESY.

The guy who told you that is:

a.) a sissy la-la
b.) making gak up, no such rule exists except in his own mind.

And as other have said, there is no such thing as "cheese" it is a purely subjective term with no hard and fast definition, which is why there are no hard and fast rules for it in tournaments. They all include completely insubstantial guidelines which do more to feth the game up than improve it.

H.B.M.C. wrote:There's no such thing as cheese.

If there were the 3 railhead army still wouldn't be.

Even the main rulebook seems to imply that three hammerheads are okay, remember the picture in the Tau section with the one painted up as a command tank or some such?

4 people consciously voted yes, I would like to hear their opinions.

Ghetto_Fight wrote:I got told the other day by a dude that if bring 3 rail heads to a 1500-1750 it's considered "cheesey" and people could refuse t play me at tournments are stuff... I find that friggin ridiculous!!! [...]

That is ridiculous. At my FLGS, 2-3x Hammerheads isn't cheesy, it's standard. I mean, it takes 3 about... 4 turns to kill an AV 14 vehicle in cover, assuming that none of the Hammerheads are wrecked/weapon destroyed/shaken/stunned during that time. Scary stuff, that.

Ghetto_Fight wrote:[...]As railheads are the only blast marker weapons Tau have[...]

Actually, you also have the Airbursting Fragmentation Projector. See page 25.

BrookM wrote:Ah yes, this reminds me of something of days long gone by:

Its the rules of two men, you do it with every army.
2 Rhinos? Oh thats not too cheesy
2 Tomb Spyders? Oh thats not too cheesy
2 Heavy Destroyers? Oh thats not too cheesy
2 Chimeras? Oh thats not too cheesy
2 Wartrukks? Oh thats not too cheesy
2 Killa Kanz? Oh thats not too cheesy
2 Immolators? Oh thats not too cheesy

2 Wraithlords? OK THATS CHEESY.

Yes. Because (at least in 3rd) the Wraithlord was ridiculously undercosted and overpowered. It's still a stupid set of rules, all the other walker robots are vehicles that can stunned, lose weapons or destroyed in one shot. But the WL alone is a model that could be screened in 3rd and 4th edition.

In 5th edition? The Lash Prince comes to mind.

Yeah it's subjective but there's also no rule that says you have to use deodorant or can't since Britney Spears songs while playing.

But most of us know that.

So taking the same poorly-written over powered units every game is frowned on since it makes the game more predicatable and less fun.

The Wraithlord was overpowered in early 3rd because it could pick out the fist, kill them, and the squad could do nothing. TAR fixed that, and after that Wraithlords went from 'overpowered' to 'powerful'.

There is no such thing as cheese. Of course, Dual Lash and every-model-is-unique Nob Bikers come close

Unfortunately, Tau's only serious anti-tank weaponry comes from Heavy Support. They regularly need to fill it if they are to stand a chance against most armies.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I don't think you know what cheese is.

I totally agree, I don´t believe in the existence of cheese. A manual might be broken and a unit unbalance, so what? learn to deal with it or go play another game.

M.

lol no its not cheese sounds like some of the people in your area are scared

H.B.M.C. wrote:There's no such thing as cheese.

Crawling Wraithlords. Claiming a cover save for baseless Tomb Spyders because the cloth throw over the table has a fold in it. Modeling walls onto Heavy Weapon Squad bases and claiming cover saves from them. Or the guy who modeled his Russes and Basilisk as hover vehicles (cool, right?) for his Drop-Troops, and stuck 'em on extendable 5' high flying bases and claimed everyone was out of range to the models so they couldn't be shot at. Or people who insisted that Hellhound Tanks always hit themselves when they fired because the Flame Template couldn't help but cover part of the tank. Or, my favorite, an old Dragon where the flame template was placed at its mouth. Dude gave it a beaded bendy-neck and extended the neck of the dragon a full 3 feet (with little stands to hold it up) so it could breathe into your deployment zone on turn 1, but you had to target its base (behind cover, or at the least, 3' away) to hit back.


Cheese exists, but taking those 3 tanks isn't it. Good ways to spot cheese are people having to talk like a lawyer to justify something ("well, if you read Rule X like this, and read rule Y like this, then..." is a good giveaway) or who refuse to d6 a given interpretation, or who are clearly taking advantage of typos or loopholes in rules. Like if GW typoed a Grot to have Strength 20 (easy enough typo, just an extra zero), and insisted on taking a full army of S20 Grots. Oh yes...cheese exists. People are confused on the definition ("anything I don't like or can't figure out how to beat" seems to be the favorite), but it's certainly out there.

Swordguy wrote: ... the guy who modeled his Russes and Basilisk as hover vehicles (cool, right?) for his Drop-Troops, and stuck 'em on extendable 5' high flying bases and claimed everyone was out of range to the models so they couldn't be shot at. Or people who insisted that Hellhound Tanks always hit themselves when they fired because the Flame Template couldn't help but cover part of the tank. Or, my favorite, an old Dragon where the flame template was placed at its mouth. Dude gave it a beaded bendy-neck and extended the neck of the dragon a full 3 feet (with little stands to hold it up) so it could breathe into your deployment zone on turn 1, but you had to target its base (behind cover, or at the least, 3' away) to hit back.

These are all twisted strokes of genius, unless encountered across your own table.

In a tournament there's no way it's cheese. In a friendly game it might be, depending on what your opponent fields. Tau vehicles can be very hard to kill with the right upgrades (even in close combat) so they give me a pretty hard time against my orks. I still don't cry cheese, but if you always only fielded 3 railheads every game that would be annoying.

Some of these things are illegal.

Swordguy wrote:
Claiming a cover save for baseless Tomb Spyders because the cloth throw over the table has a fold in it.

Unbased models are illegal, don't play against them.

Modeling walls onto Heavy Weapon Squad bases and claiming cover saves from them.

This is mentioned in the rule book as illegal. You can model walls but can't claim cover.

Or the guy who modeled his Russes and Basilisk as hover vehicles (cool, right?) for his Drop-Troops, and stuck 'em on extendable 5' high flying bases and claimed everyone was out of range to the models so they couldn't be shot at.

Considering this game is "2d" in the fact that you never measure diagionally you got screwed.

Or people who insisted that Hellhound Tanks always hit themselves when they fired because the Flame Template couldn't help but cover part of the tank.

Considering the hellhound throws its template this is impossible.

Or, my favorite, an old Dragon where the flame template was placed at its mouth. Dude gave it a beaded bendy-neck and extended the neck of the dragon a full 3 feet (with little stands to hold it up) so it could breathe into your deployment zone on turn 1, but you had to target its base (behind cover, or at the least, 3' away) to hit back.

This is legal, but if a judge didn't notice a giant coiled neck on the model you should ask your judge to get some better glasses.

Like if GW typoed a Grot to have Strength 20 (easy enough typo, just an extra zero), and insisted on taking a full army of S20 Grots. Oh yes...cheese exists. People are confused on the definition ("anything I don't like or can't figure out how to beat" seems to be the favorite), but it's certainly out there.

The old chaos codex had T1 W3 sorcerers. I played it like this. Am I one of your evil cheesy gits? I mean obviously in your eyes everything is cheese since EVERYTHING is typed out in a book and it could obviously be a typo.