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I was intrigued by Uriels_Flame's topic in the 40k section and figured I'd start a similar one for WHFB.
Topic I guess is self-explanatory.

My thoughts:

High Elves-
Worst - Silver Helms
With -1WS, -1I, -1A, -1Ld, and -1AS compared to the Dragon Princes for only 9 less points (not to mention the loss of Immunity to Fire - albeit a relatively small bonus), the reasons to take Silver Helms, in my opinion, are limited. Were these guys Limited Core (I agree with the move away from all-cav forces) or just had the option to have unbarded mounts, I would probably consider them, but as it is, the 9 point premium for the DPs comes off as much more appealing and worthwhile.

Best - Phoenix Guard
These guys are just frickin' durable. Having RnF with Ward Saves makes these guys, in my opinion, one of the best anvil units in the game. S4 attacks aren't too shabby either (not stellar, but, hey).

Interesting topic-

Dwarves, I'd say:

Best- Hammerers. Selected in almost every Dwarf army that isn't going to blow all its special slots on war machines. Great statline, stubborn, durable and access to a customizable magic standard. Add in the bodyguard rule and you've got a winner.

Worst- Demonslayer. 60 pts and your lord slot for +1 WS, W, I, and A on a model that isn't going to be wearing any armor. Edit: Worth noting that there is an increased rune allowance... but still. Simply not a competitive choice.

RZ

Best:

Saurus spearmen! : 2 attacks!! with 2 ranks 6 wide , thats
24 str 4 attacks .

Worst: Kroxigor -_- str 6 3 attacks only , expensive to buy

Might as well as go for temple guard str 5 / 2 attacks

LunaHound wrote:
Best:

Saurus spearmen! : 2 attacks!! with 2 ranks 6 wide , thats
24 str 4 attacks .

Doesn't the champ get +1A? So 25.

Let's see those Saurus spearmen stand up to my charging Khorne Chaos Warriors. A 3+ armour save (with shield), four attacks on the charge, initiative 5, strength/toughness 4 base, and WS 5. Good luck with your lizards.

Worst unit for Warriors of Chaos would be Chaos Warhounds. Weak, but at least they're good meatshields.

@cheese elemental

"per army" . Atm im working on lizardmen.

Cheese Elemental wrote:
Worst unit for Warriors of Chaos would be Chaos Warhounds. Weak, but at least they're good meatshields.

I guess it depends on how you define worst unit. For their points, they're really not bad at all. A lot of armies would love to have such cheap throw-away/redirectors. My guess would have been Forsaken.

RZ

Forsaken aren't that bad. They're fun to model and they can hold up pretty well due to ITP (from Frenzy).

[thread derail]

Cheese Elemental wrote:A 3+ armour save (with shield), four attacks on the charge, initiative 5, strength/toughness 4 base, and WS 5. Good luck with your lizards.

you mean your khorne warriors have 2+ save, 3 attacks, or 4+ save, 4 attacks. Either way, Saurus hold their own alright against chaos warriors, though hitting on 5s against Nurgle warriors makes me weep .

For the sake of argument, let's ask mathhammer.
2 Hwep khorne warriors (5x3 for 300 points) kill 4.667 saurus (round to 5). The saurus (6x3 for over 50 points less) stab back, killing 2.5 (round to 2). Even rounding both in your favour, you only win by 2, and Ld6 on 3 dice is not very hard. [/thread derail]

Lizardmen:
Best: Salamanders, though Saurus are a close 2nd. There are just so damn many problems I prefer to solve with salamanders. If it's a big block, it goes away. If it's armoured, it goes away. If it has bad Ld, it goes away.

Worst: Frankly (and I'm ecstatic that this is the problem), I'm hard pressed to pick one. I can see use for every single unit in the 'dex. Mixed skink units feel "worst" to me, but I'd never flat refuse to use them. Saurus Cavalry are probably too expensive.

Hang on, Warriors have 2 attacks base, +1 for charging, +1 for Frenzy, and the shield bumps their 4+ to 3+, right?

Worst for lizards is defiantly jungle swarms

chaos warriors have 4+ chaos armour, +1 for shield, +1 for hand weapon+shield (page 56), making it 2+ in close combat, 3+ otherwise.

in Fantasy, chargers strike first instead of getting +1 attacks.

dark elves best Imo

war hydra: large scary and has four more heads then your average rampaging behemoth.

worst Imo

witch elves: They are not nearly strong enough to put up with the crap models....

Oh, thanks. I'm still getting used to Fantasy rules.

Well, here we go....

Lizardmen

Best Unit: Stegadons

Field 3 in list. Steamroll through opponents.

Worst: Razordon

Ok, so either S4 or I can take a Sally with S3 BUT -3 to save???


Empire

Best: Steam Tank
It's one of the few competitive pieces out there for Empire.

Worst: Free Company
Only good as detachments, and even then, Halberdiers cost the same and have S4 plus a 6 up in CC. Better than nothing.


Orcs and Goblins

Best: Black Orcs
They're obviously the best. No Questions Asked.

Worst: Boar Boys
Expensive in points and money. go buy a boar chariot for a similar effect.


Ogre Kingdoms

Best: Maneaters
Stubborn in an army with average LD is really what this army needs.

Worst: Hunter
Unless you're taking Gnobbo Trappers, He's not that great.

Obviously, your opinions may differ

for me?

ogres:

best: rhinox riders
worst: so many choices :( i would go with leadbelechers

lizzies:

best: skirmish skinks
worst: new korx

I've got to differ on the best/worst Empire units.

Steam Tank may be a killer but it's the only unit in the game that actually gets worse when wounded. The amount of steampoints you can generate declines rapidly after being wounded making it rather iffy IMO. All my opponents know this. Still good for points denial though.

Free Company are actually better at being detachments than Halberdiers. 2 S3 attacks generate a higher average of wounds than a single S4 attacks (the exception is vs units with a 2+ save) . Do the math if you don't believe me. Many opposing units have S4 so that 6+ AS of the Halberdiers doesn't come into play much. When the opponent has S3 (or lower) they usually are easier to wound as well, which makes the larger number of attacks of the FC better. Killing the enemy before he gets to strike is a great defensive mechanism (just ask those pesty HE).

Best Empire unit IMO: Great Cannon. Every Empire army list should always have at least one of these. [u]All[i] other armies would love to have this in their list, with the possible exception of Dwarves if they wouldn't be able to Rune it up.

Worst Empire unit IMO: Master Engineer. Sure he can improve the shooting of a warmachine but with his cost and a support weapon for him he costs almost as much as a Mortar anyway! He takes up a valuable Hero slot, he can't take magic items, Outrider Champs have a better BS for the Hochland the list goes on and on. Unfortunately a terrible choice.

Heh, I like that there're differing opinions on various units in armies.

I guess I should make some specific remarks about what I intended by this thread: Looking at an individual army book alone (not comparing to other units in other armies, for the most part - obviously, this isn't completely possible), what units do you guys feel are best/worst in the sense of most/least effective, "must take"/"never take" sense. In the case of worst units, this can extend to units that "there's no point in really taking", merely because they are outshined by another unit: ie. my pick of the Silver Helms in the High Elves list.

More thoughts!

Dark Elves
Actually, I pretty much agree with darkside69 - best/worst = hydra/witch elves, respectively.

Tomb Kings
Best - Chariot units
With the ability to move in both the movement and Magic Phases, it's hard to NOT get the charge off with these guys. That and the banner of the undying legion and 3 wounds per chariot, and you have yourself a fairly resilient unit that does xD3 impact hits on the charge.

Worst - Bone Giant
It's actually not a terrible unit. Just, compared with other choices, it comes off as "not as good".

Cheese Elemental wrote:Worst unit for Warriors of Chaos would be Chaos Warhounds. Weak, but at least they're good meatshields.

Even though they may be the weakest we still all take multiple units of 'hounds and they are very cheap and fulfill there purpose very well.

I would think the worst WoC unit might be one of the monstrous special or rare units. I'm not sure which is worse. Plus all those models suck.

Wood Elves:

Best - Wild Riders
Fast, ItP, armor and ward, fear on charge, actually get better when not charging, high WS

Worst - Eternal Guard (at least in my fast, points-denial list)
5+ Armor, S3, block formation=slow, easy to kill noble to eliminate Stubborn.
This unit has it's place in a list built around it, but I don't roll that way

Out of the armies I play:

Lizardmen
Best- Templeguard
Worst- Krox

Tomb Kings
Best- Tombguard
Worst- Fast cav

Vampire Counts
Best- Skeletons
Worst- Black Coach

Daemons
not going there

Again i differ about empire.

Best: Swordsman, WS4 I4 and a 4+ save? And there only 6 points each! Whats not to love?

Worst: Archers, 8 points for a strength 3 attack. Guess what also only costs 8 points? Handgunners and crossbowman. Archers are over priced for what they do.

Daemons of Chaos:

Worst: Beasts of Nurgle. It's one of the few bad units in the dex. Not even "bad for Daemons" its' a genuinely bad unit. It needs more spawn-esque rules, either the movement or the unbreakable would do.

Best: Whoo, boy, there's a toughy. Probably the Thirster. No matter what the rest of your list looks like, he's a great guy to stick in front. Target the enemy Lord and full speed ahead will win you 90% of your games.

Heres mine:

Wood Elves:

Best Unit: Dryads, whats not to love about these guys when these guys charge the front and some Wardancers/Wild Riders hit the flank, all of those str 4 attacks will start chewing up nearly anything

Worst: For me its the Highborn, hes a lord choice that is just outclassed compared to the Spellweaver and Treeman Lord, sure you can have an Alter Kindred Lord with the Helm of the Hunt, Amber Pendant and hail of doom arrow combo with a great weapon (+2 Attacks (from Alter and the Helm) Always Strike First) but for versatility or the ability to take the much loved Wand of the Wych Elm (re-roll all dispel attempts) the other two choices are miles ahead compared to the poor Highborn

High Elves:

Best Unit: Star Dragon Prince, how can you just not love all of those str 7 attacks hitting you in the flank

Worst Unit: Toss up between Silver Helms and Ellyrion Reavers both are pointless compared to the Dragon Princes, sure the Reavers are fast cav but elves are so fast anyway even if you do leave your flank exposed you can adjust accordingly. And everyone knows that Silver Helms are crap, hell even Tomb King cavalry is better and we all know how effective they are.

Warriors of Chaos:

Best Unit - Chaos Warriors, they are just hard, a unit can generally smash through anything it touches and 11 attacks and a 2+ Armour save is no easy prospect to shift especially when theirs 20 of them.

Worst Unit - Forsaken - they just suck, they are a waste of a special choice why take these unpredictable idiots when i can have more chariots and knights?

BoC:
Best - Tuskgor Chariot: Cheapish heavy hitting chariot that has reroll to psych and it's even core. Pretty nice.
Worst - Chaos Trolls: Expensive, has better, cheaper troops fighting for the same ogre-sized infantry slot, and stupid as well with low ld in an army that has already big leadership problems. No, just no.

Bretts:
Best - Pegasus knights: Skirmishing flying unit with good offensive and defensive power. Hard to beat that, altough peg.knights do have issues with ld-tests as they may fly far away from the general.
Worst - Men-at-arms: The Brettonian ab doesn't really have any awful stinkers in it but it has to be said that these guys didn't get too much love when you look what every other armies comparatively costed infantry get.

Chaos Dwarfs:
Best - Earthshaker Cannon: I'll take two, thanks.
Worst - (Allied) Goblins: Hmm, should I take these (3 pts per dude), or core hobgoblins that have 1 better ws and cost 2 pts per guy... Ahh, snap, they do ignore hobgoblin panic, so I guess it's settled then.

DoC:
Best - Flesh Hounds: I'd use these even if they had 1w, but they have 2w. I rest my case.
Worst - Screamers: Old screamers were neat, these are just too overpriced for t3,1w,5+ws models.

Dark Elves:
Best - Are Pendant of Khaeleth or Ring of Hotek units? Well, Hydra then: Durable monster, lots of attacks with hatred and doesn't cost too much either.
Worst - A tie between witches and executioners: They are not awful, but black guard is just so much better at their role.

Dwarves:
Best - Organ Gun: Autohits baby! (I hate when it misfires at the crucial moment, though)
Worst - Daemon Slayer: 110+ pts naked dwarf, gimme a break (or give him an option to take some runic charms at least).

Empire:
Best - Great Cannon: Big game hunter number one.
Worst - Master engineer: Just too expensive for what he does (especially as the school of engineers apparently have issues with magic items). Plus he takes a character slot which are not in abundance in empire armies.

High Elves:
Best - Star Dragon: Pretty damn good stats.
Worst - Silver Helms: Pretty much useless as the clearly superior dragon princes fight for the same slot.

Lizardmen:
Best - Engine of the Gods: Good abilities on a scary mount. The priest is pretty flimsy, though, and these things cost.
Worst - Jungle Swarm: Tar-pit unit that doesn't really tar-pit anything.

Ogre Kingdoms:
Best - Err, I guess Tyrant with Tenderizer is pretty brutal (if he doesn't fluff his attacks, that is). That tells abit about the power-level of the book...
Worst - Slave Giant: I don't particulary like the not-stubborn special rule.

O&G:
Best - Spear Chukka: Cheap & 2for1slot.
Worst - Big 'uns: The upgrade is just overpriced.

Skaven:
Best - Jezzails: These things are murder vs certain targets altough terror & panic are their bane.
Worst - Rat Ogres: They may look ok on paper but the pricetag combined with no ranks (and no ld bonuses) really sucks.

TK:
Best - Tomb Scorpion: With the tunneling ability, these things are excellent support units.
Worst - Icon Bearer: As this guy has poor stats, no casting ability and the expensive tk banners are lackluster, there is no reason why not take prince/liche priest instead.

VC:
Best - Black Knights: Unbreakable heavy cavalry is pretty neat altough the vc-book is pretty crowded at this power level (gg, vhargulf, ghouls etc. are all good choices)
Worst - Bat Swarm: Expensive and awful stats. Just such a pointless unit.

WoC:
Best - Chaos Knights: Excellent hammer & anvil unit and for some reason they got "cause fear" in the new book.
Worst - Forsaken: These guys are just awful. Expensive, hard to control and with just heavy armor. I'll settle for Warriors/Chosen for my crazy elite infantry needs.

Wood Elves
Best - Treemen: These guys can smash/tie up stuff and fart branches at annoying support units. (watch out for thirster with burning swords, though).
Worst - Warhawk riders: Pegasus Knights gone bad. They pretty much die if somebody looks at them angrily.

Bloodthirsters have one weakness, a empire captain on a horse with Von Horstmann's speculum. Thats costs you about 100 points if you give him armour, how much does the bloodthirster cost in comparision?

Lord Bingo wrote:
Worst: Archers, 8 points for a strength 3 attack. Guess what also only costs 8 points? Handgunners and crossbowman. Archers are over priced for what they do.

Archers as detachments are amazing. They are skirmishers, so they can screen your troops and re-direct charges in really interesting ways They really get mileage out of the whole "detachments never cause panic" thing, when screening your armies advance.

Most competitive builds that take infantry blocks include a 3x3 free company or halberdier detachment and a 5 man archer detachment.

Well considering its my only army in fantasy I can only write about WoC

Worst unit- Its a consensus that forsaken are a horrible unit, they take up valuable points and special slots that should be used for something else. Take chosen instead if you want a hard hitting infantry unit.

Best-Chaos knights: cause fear (don't know why, but I'm not complaining) 1+ armour save, magic weapons and can destroy almost any RnF unit in the game.

Well, I play OG and WE sooo....

WE Best- Eternal Guard (assuming Highborn/ Noble is present) I know this may cause a lot of booing and hissing, but peeps...I have to play against Brettonians more often than not and being able to eat a charge and follow it up with flanking Dryads/ Wardancers makes these guys indispensable for me (stubborn Ld9, fuggidabout it)

Worst- Scouts. Every time I play I feel that I don't get to use their scouts ability because my opponent anticipates them and deploys accordingly. So they are just expensive skirmishing glade guard without the good bows.

OG Best- Da Boyz! Nothing makes me shiver like big blocks of greenies. S4 on a pile of attacks...heaven!

Worst- Trollz. I am let down by these guys every single game (which probably means that I am not using them right) But they never seem to score many casualties and they are expensive (not to mention stupid, although I haven't had too many problems with this so far)

I personally think (depending on the tournament system you play) Horrors are actually better than a Bloodthirster. A unit of 10 costs around 150-170pts depending on command and is a level 1 wizard with wounds to spare. Flickering Fire is great as a spell, and you can take as many as you like (except under ETC restrictions).

The Thirster is great, I just prefer Horrors.