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I am having a hard time desciding on vanguard. They have the potential to do SOO much damage, especially if infiltrated with shrike and get first turn. However they are still marine, and even if they all have storm sheilds, they get toasted by rapid fire weapons. Thoughts on whether the chance of a mighty first turn assault is worth a 600 point unit?

no...not since you can take assault termies.

x2 post

Wow...lagged out and got a x3 post

Vanguard are only good for being 5 man jump counter-attack squad that can deep strike with a drop pod assault army b/c the sarge gets relic-blade or thunder hammer at 15 pts a pop and they can assault when they come in from deep strike and a 5 man with jump packs, 2 storm shields, 2 lightning claw, sarge with thunder hammer is worth 250pts. do the math

Vanguard have no place in a competetive army.

People will disagree, and those are the people I hope to be matched up against at GT's.

....I'm sure their loss would be attributed to the "dice".

Alerian wrote:no...not since you can take assault termies.

I agree.
There are better options out there in the Space Marine codex. Leave them at home.

If there weren't other options within the codex that can do the same thing better and for less points then yes, they'd be worth it.

Reality is however, that there are numerous other otpions within the codex that perform the same role better and for less points. So basically, they're not worth it for a competitive army.

what units ?

for 250 points might as well get a land raider/redeemer and go around torching up units will be more effective then a five man squad. Just my two cents

The big problem with them is the fact that you are paying ~250 points for a unit of 5 guys who die just as fast as a normal marine/assault marine. For those points you can take 6 assault terminators who can actually survive being shot at by a good chunk of an army.

There is no reason to have vanguard in a competitive list but you can do what i do. If you are having a just for fun game then you take them and just have youre fun.

They're a tad expensive I think... Heroic Intervention is kind of neat though.