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This has been nagging me ever since I heard about executions in Texas.

People say that the death sentence is reasonable because someone bad will be gone from the world and they'll be suffering.

WRONG.

It's much worse to throw someone in a cell for the rest of their life. Can you imagine being locked in a 4x4 room, with the bare minimum to live with, no outside contact, for the rest of your days? Can you imagine the despair and the torment?

Knowing America, once you guys catch Bin Laden you'll ship him off to Texas and kill him. To him (or most other terrorists), that would be letting him win. He'd have martyred himself for his cause. You want to make him pay for his horrible crimes, you throw him in a cell.

End of rant.

No, THAT thought is the problem. You did something horrible, evil and wrong. Now you get to sponge off the taxpayers the rest of your life. You will get food, clothing, and shelter, because you killed/raped/danced/became a licensed mime.

The death penalty should be simplified. If a trial by your peers sees fit to give you the death penalty, you have 5 years for your ONE appeal. Still found guilty, the bailiff shoots you. That is how it should be done.

Same with life sentences. Seriously, just kill them. Save the taxpayers DECADES of costs for the price of one clip of ammunition (to make sure the job is done right).


As for Bin Laden, we know not to kill him. Should we catch him, he will be shipped to a very secure HOLE, with no communication and no killing.

Unless he is caught during the current administration, because then Obama might just hug him and let him go, to show the world we aren't evil.

I love the death penality. We shoudnt have to wait hand and foot on people that commit horrific crimes. Waisting tax payer dollars keeping them alive for decades. Kill them and move on. And hopefully no1 comes here with the it costs more to kill someone than to keep them alive for the rest of their lives. Come on....who really would believe that....Apparently some people...i saw that BS in a thread here not too long ago.

edit: and if it was up to me...i would do something similar to the post above me. It shouldnt cost more than a dollar to kill someone....1 bullet or 1 piece of rope. Game over.

That's what I'm basically saying. Send people to very secure holes.

It won't cost taxpayers much to sustain a life sentence. What about all that money that goes into developing unneccessary things like lethal injections and new guns that can kill more people?

Huh? a gun from 1902 can can get job done....

The gun lobby doesn't seem to think so.

Cheese Elemental wrote:That's what I'm basically saying. Send people to very secure holes.

It won't cost taxpayers much to sustain a life sentence. What about all that money that goes into developing unneccessary things like lethal injections and new guns that can kill more people?

The prison costs money. Guards cost money. Staff costs money. No matter WHAT prison you use, it is a waste of money, because you have a building filled with people that you aren't getting anything from.

A quick Google tells me in Florida it averages to more than $19,000 PER YEAR, about $53 PER DAY, per inmate. That is INSANE.

There are a lot of people who don't even make that much money in a year, and we waste it on law breaking citizens.

I feel thats its well past time that the long arm of the law puts a few more in the ground on an almost daily basis.

Cheese Elemental wrote:The gun lobby doesn't seem to think so.

What are you talking about?

he is trying to bring the gun debate over into this thread.

Dont let him!

for once cheese i agree with you
the death penalty is wrong and pointless
i mean its like if someone rapes someone why not get the rape penalty or if you steal you get stolen from

If the Death Penality is wrong then cramming somebody into a tiny hole giveing them bearly enough to survive is down right fethed up.

I'm not saying the death penalty is wrong. I'm saying it's a stupid idea because it's letting people off.

My thing about the Death penaly is a good number of times the person come up innocent. Then you realised that it was a useless murder, and everybody invoved has to live with the fact they killed an innocent man. +1 for life in jail with hard labor making Plates.

There you go; stick them in a cell and make them perform hard labor to repay the country for their meager living conditions.

http://www.tofreethetruth.com/general/the-financial-myth-debunked/ wrote:The California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice estimated the annual costs of their death penalty system to exceed $130 million annually. To abolish capital punishment and replace death with life without parole, the annual cost projection is only $11.5 million. California could be saving over $100 million each and every year. Yet, this state refuses to fund community policing systems which are proven to reduce crime rates. Why? Government officials claim they have no money for it.

jp400 wrote:I feel thats its well past time that the long arm of the law puts a few more in the ground on an almost daily basis.

I see what you did there.

I don't see how killing someone who commits a heinous crime is letting them off. Murder is such a heinous crime BECAUSE they killed someone. If we believe killing someone is "letting them off", then why don't we just kill everyone who is in any form of pain? Life is precious. If someone does something extremely awful, they dont deserve that precious thing. I for one am not religious, but to someone who is: here's another point for it. That person did something fething awful. Kill them and let God/Allah/Cthulhu sort them out. we don't want people like that. if your diety of choice does, cool. he'll give them a nice afterlife, but at least we don't have to worry about them. I agree Appeals need to be made and you have to be sure (REALLY FETHING SURE), just shoot them a couple times. It's a hella lot less expensive then lethal injection, and 6 bullets to the brain is 99.9% assured gonna kill someone. On that 0.1% chance it doesn't, give them another salvo. The cost problem is that it's being done in an inefficient way.

Like i said before in another thread. Whoever creates a heinous crime that deserves death penalty for example , pretty much lose
every right to live as human being. They cost tax payers $53 per day? wow thats a horrible thought , while swift execution = too easy on them.

I suggest: Do all the lab / medical tests , use them as the test subjects. Good for humanity , and serves as a good warning to the rest imo.

Yes the human rights group will jump all over this but who are they kidding? the criminals already gave up their rights the moment
they end another's .

This is beyond eye for eye, beyond moral. For the greater good of human kind , punishments NEED TO BE SEVERE EVEN IF EXCESSIVE ,
criminals needs to have fear and have 2nd thoughts before committing the crime.

Whilst if we were 100% certain, totally sure, I'd happily say hang em high to reduce costs to the taxpayer, the margin of error exists, and that's why I can't condone it.

2007

* Dwayne Allen Dail, jailed for 18 years in a child rape case, was released from prison after new DNA testing cleared him of the crime.
* Derrick Bell, who was serving 12 1/2 to 25 years in prison for the robbery and shooting of Brentonol Moriah in Brooklyn in 1996, had his conviction vacated.
* Claude McCollum, convicted for murder and rape in 2005, had his conviction overturned.
* Charles Dubbs, convicted for two sexual assaults, was set free after another inmate confessed to committing the crimes.
* Steven Phillips, sent to prison for a 1982 rape and burglary, was found to be wrongly convicted.
* Richard L. Kittilstad, sentenced to ten years prison sentence in 2001 for soliciting prostitution, had his conviction overturned.
* Ronald Gene Taylor was set free after DNA cleared him in a 1982 gang rape in Dallas County.
* John White was released from prison after a DNA test cleared him of rape.
* Marcus Lyons was cleared of rape by DNA evidence.
* Floyd Brown, held since 1993 in a mental institution without trial for beating Katherine Lynch to death, was released after all charges against him were dropped
* Martin Tankleff was released from prison and his 1990 conviction quashed after new evidence cast doubt on the police tactics and methods used to gather evidence. He was originally convicted of killing his parents, but new, unspecified, evidence cast serious enough doubt on that to cause an Appeal Court to quash the conviction.
* Kennedy Brewer was exonerated of a 1992 rape and murder of a 3-year-old child after spending 15 years behind bars.

2008

* A Colorado judge ordered on January 22, 2008, the immediate release of Tim Masters. DNA research by Richard Eikelenboom from Independent Forensic Services in Nunspeet cast some doubt on his connection with the death of Peggy Hettrick in 1987 in Fort Collins. However, the DNA was that of the victim's boyfriend and may not be indicative of a crime.
* David Scott was released from prison after DNA evidence determined he was not the man who killed 89-year-old Loretta Keith of West Terre Haute.
* Lynn DeJac, convicted of killing her daughter, was exonerated after a judge overturned her conviction based on new DNA evidence implicating her former boyfriend in the killing.
* Rachel Jernigan, convicted of bank robbery in 2001, was released from prison after another woman confessed to the crime.
* Willie Earl Green, sent to prison in 1983 for the murder of a woman, was released after a change in testimony.
* Robert Gonzales, a mentally slowed man who falsely confessed to the slaying of an 11-year-old girl in 2005 was released from jail Friday after a national database matched DNA in the case to another man in custody for another crime.
* Patrick Waller, who was convicted for a robbery in which four people were abducted and a woman was raped, has been exonerated.
* Raymond H. Jonassen spent four months in jail based on information that turned out to be false.
* Dean Cage was exonerated of a rape conviction after 14 years in prison.
* Walter Swift was wrongly convicted of raping a pregnant Detroit woman in 1982.
* Levon Junior "Bo" Jones, sentenced to death for the 1987 murder and robbery of Leamon Grady, was released after nearly 15 years in prison.
* James Lee Woodard was released from prison after DNA tests and changes in witness testimony proved that he did not rape and murder his 21-year-old girlfriend in 1980.
* Cynthia Sommer, convicted of killing her Marine husband with arsenic to pay for breast implants, was cleared after new tests showed no traces of poison.
* Thomas Clifford McGowan was freed after spending nearly 23 years in prison for a rape he did not commit.
* Nathaniel Hatchett, who spent 12 years in prison for rape, was released after prosecutors decided to drop charges based on DNA evidence that shows he was not the rapist.
* Glen Chapman, who spent 14 years on death row, was released after the District Attorney dismissed murder charges against him.
* Guy Randolph was exonerated by a court judge after the district attorney's office acknowledged that he had been wrongly convicted.
* Hattie Douglas's charge of murdering her 11-month-old son by poisoning him with alcohol was dismissed in May 2008. The murder charge was dropped after new tests cast doubt on the theory that the death of her son was caused by alcohol.
* Ada Joanne Taylor, Joseph White, Thomas Winslow, and three others were wrongly convicted in a murder and rape case Ada Joanne Taylor confessed to police of being part of the crime after she was told that she would be the first woman to receive the death penalty in Nebraska.
* Arthur Johnson was exonerated after spending 15½ years in jail.

2009

* Alan Beaman, convicted for the stabbing and strangling to death of his ex-girlfriend, was exonerated.
* Timothy Cole was convicted in 1985 for a rape he did not commit, he was posthumously exonerated in early February 2009 after serving 14 years. He died in prison in 1999.



So that's it from me, won't linger in this thread just wanted to say The Margin For Error Exists, if you give someone a life sentence, you can have some chance to release and compensate someone, no chance of that if you've executed them. For those that will argue that the margin of risk is acceptable, consider your reaction when they get it wrong and come for you or someone you love...

Just like the other thread...I agree Luna. Nicely said. And whoever posted that it costs 130 milliong per year to have the death penalty....That doesnt mean we should just give it up. It means we should change the way we kill these criminals. What kind of soft princess death are these people getting. Ive seen documentaries on the death penality. One of the reasons it costs so much now...is that they have to make 100% sure its super quick and painless. Now why would a person that commited some kind of horrific crime....deserve to chose how they die....put a 20 cent bullet in them and lets move on.

edit: Meangreenstompa....most of those cases you sited...had nothing to do with the death penality or murder. Alot of those cases however were reversed due to DNA testing coming into play...which wasnt around back then....so this obviously isnt a problem in 2009. The number of cases reversed in this decade....and the ones that will be reversed in the future...is so minimal...due to all the advanced testing we can now do. They are even very very minal back then....

brad3104 wrote:

edit: Meangreenstompa....most of those cases you sited...had nothing to do with the death penality or murder. Alot of those cases however were reversed due to DNA testing coming into play...which wasnt around back then....so this obviously isnt a problem in 2009. The number of cases reversed in this decade....and the ones that will be reversed in the future...is so minimal...due to all the advanced testing we can now do. They are even very very minal back then....

My cousin, who I grew up with, was murdered outside a nightclub, at the age of 22, by the exboyfriend of his gf, who waited outside the club with a large combat knife and stabbed my cousin through the heart a total of 7 times. It's difficult for me not to shout from the rooftops that I want every bastard caught for this sort of thing put to death by the state.
Whilst in that particular case it's difficult to see how the accused could have been innocent, not all cases are like that and I believe that a margin of error in criminality exists, even with DNA testing results can be altered, error can occur...so...

The margin for error exists, the system is therefore flawed and the chance of the state executing ONE innocent life is enough for me to be opposed to it, however much I might endorse the swift death of those who are guilty, the risk of the state conducting a murder of it's own is too great.

Looking around the world, the more enthusiastic a country is about capital and corporal punishment, generally speaking the less civilised it is in other measures such as democracy, freedom of the press and so on.

This brings up a nice little question that has been asked for years. Is the purpose of the criminal justice system to deter, rehabilitate, or punish?

If it is meant to rehabilitate criminals and turn them back into productive members of society, then the death penalty does not make much sense. However this point of view has a couple of major drawbacks.

1. It rarely works. Studeies done in the US show that most crimes are committed by repeat offeders.
2. It does not provide much justice (revenge) for the victim.

If the criminal justice system is meant to deter, then it also does a poor job of that. Again most crimes being committed by repeat offenders.

If the criminal justice system is meant to punish, then the death penalty does a fine job of that.

What some peole have desribed, such as it is worse to be locked up, or that you should have medical experiments, or what have you done, that is currently defined as cruel or unusual punishment. Which goes against the Costitution.

Yes some people have their convictions overturned on appeal. Yet others are clearly guilty. For example, One man kidnapped his estranged girlfriends daughter, called his estranged girlfriend and threatened to kill the girl. The GF called the police. A police chase ensued. The man was cornered, and then in front of multiple witnesses, killed the little girl. Does that gentleman deserve to live the rest of his life? Did the little girl he killed? What of the pain caused to the little girls mother and grandmother?

In my eyes, the criminal justice system should be used to punish. Not deter, not rehabilitate. Punish. If someone is clearly guilty (beyond any doubt) such as the guy I described. Then immediately take them out back and hang them. If someone is convicted (beyond a reasonable doubt) then by all means let them appeal. Once. If that fails, take them out back and hang them.
If they are a repeat offender (three strikes) Take them out back and hang them.

Rope is much cheaper than bullets or lethal injection. And can be used multiple times.

I live in Virginia. (Second most prolific state in the US for executions). I am a US citizen. If a foreign born non citizen does not like US laws, then don't come here. But don't expect us to change them because they offend your sensibilities.

Mango wrote:This brings up a nice little question that has been asked for years. Is the purpose of the criminal justice system to deter, rehabilitate, or punish?

All 3.

If you want an example for how stupid the death penalty is, look no further then the case of Brian Nichols. The guy stole a gun from a security officer in an Atlanta court building and went on a rampage through Atlanta leaving a trail of bodies. When he was tried, his attorneys offered the prosecution a plea deal: spare Nichols' life and he would confess to everything and accept life without parole. The prosecution turned Nichols' attorneys offer down.

Nichols was of course found guilty, however the jury did not reach the unanimous decision necessary for execution. The trial cost Georgia millions of dollars for nothing. Even worse, since Nichols used public attorneys, his case drained the state funds for public representatives resulting in inadequate legal representation for dozens of defendants in other cases. As a result, many of these cases will now be successfully appealed due to the fact that the defendants were not given adequate council the first time around. So the state of Georgia has to try them twice, which will likely result in many guilty parties walking free and will cost the state (which is badly strapped for cash already) even more money.

Now their is talk about trying Nichols again in federal court to try to get a sentence of execution. So great, more money wasted on another trial for some one who is already serving a sentence of somewhere in the area of 500 years. And if Nichols is indeed sentenced to death, he'll no doubt appeal the sentence for the rest of his miserable life costing the justice system even more time and money.

The most obvious problem with the death penalty is that to have execution as a punishment, but to also put in place the necessary precautions to prevent an innocent person from being put to death costs considerably more then it does to just lock someone up for life (which completely removes the risk of accidentally executing an innocent person). Also, let's face it, due to the daunting nature of capital cases, some prosecutors avoid these cases at all costs while others only put execution on the table if they are sure they will get it. The result is that whether someone is sentenced to execution or not is completely arbitrary to the context of the crime which has been committed. In other words, two people could commit almost identical crimes under very similar circumstances and receive vastly different punishments, even if they both committed their crimes in the same state.

Add to that the fact that the death penalty has never been show to work as a deterrent and I find it hard to build any coherent case for the death penalty other then either revenge or "it feels right." And revenge or assuming justification for one's actions based solely on whether or not something "feels right" seems to me to be how many of the people currently on death row got their in the first place.

No. Just people who think the death penality is stupid are stupid.

Kilkrazy wrote:Looking around the world, the more enthusiastic a country is about capital and corporal punishment, generally speaking the less civilised it is in other measures such as democracy, freedom of the press and so on.

I don't think so. America has high crime and the death penalty true. But Japan has a Very low crime rate, and the death penalty. England did have it - but removed it after a very public miscarriage of justice - not really a moral dislike for it amongst people.

In response to the risk of killing the innocent. Only kill them if there is incredible proof then.
And WTF with the guy getting 10 years for soliciting prostitutes? Jeebus Cripes

Frazzled wrote:
No. Just people who think the death penality is stupid are stupid.

Wow. Flame on.

Frazzled wrote:
No. Just people who support the death penality are stupid.

fixed ?

This is going to be a fun game...

I still stand by the enforced historectomy, vasectomy argument. Not as bad as death but a harsh punishment all the same.