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Moral of the story. People are stupid.




My work here is done.

I've read a report once that stated that it is cheaper to imprison a man for life than to humanely put him to death. It was CNN or Fox or something.

Its the costs of all the mandatory appeals. It goes into the millions.

I am pro-LIFE so I am against the DEATH penalty!

2 things.

1-Frazzled, whats the point of that picture? I don't see the connection.

2- The governement taking another persons life, even if they are a murderer should never be an easy thing. I'm personally against the death penalty for many of the reasons that have allready been mentioned + it isn't a deterent at all.


GG

p.s. I have an idea! Send them all to this big island called Australia....oh wait nm.

How is it you can trust the government to put the right person to death but not to take care of your healthcare?

namegoeshere wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Looking around the world, the more enthusiastic a country is about capital and corporal punishment, generally speaking the less civilised it is in other measures such as democracy, freedom of the press and so on.

I don't think so. America has high crime and the death penalty true. But Japan has a Very low crime rate, and the death penalty. England did have it - but removed it after a very public miscarriage of justice - not really a moral dislike for it amongst people.

In response to the risk of killing the innocent. Only kill them if there is incredible proof then.
And WTF with the guy getting 10 years for soliciting prostitutes? Jeebus Cripes

I'm not talking about crime levels, I'm talking about correlation with other aspects of civil life such as democracy and freedom of the press like I said. I don't believe the death penalty deters crime. In fact it's completely obvious that it doesn't. It is all kinds of different factors in society that promote or prevent crime.

If you look at the countries with the most death penalty they are often the countries with the worst records on all kinds of human rights including cruel and unusual punishment, trial without jury (includes Japan,) lack of democracy, autocratic regimes, corruption, and so on.

I realise this is a kind of wishy-washy left-wing viewpoint.

Kilkrazy wrote:

namegoeshere wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Looking around the world, the more enthusiastic a country is about capital and corporal punishment, generally speaking the less civilised it is in other measures such as democracy, freedom of the press and so on.

I don't think so. America has high crime and the death penalty true. But Japan has a Very low crime rate, and the death penalty. England did have it - but removed it after a very public miscarriage of justice - not really a moral dislike for it amongst people.

In response to the risk of killing the innocent. Only kill them if there is incredible proof then.
And WTF with the guy getting 10 years for soliciting prostitutes? Jeebus Cripes

I'm not talking about crime levels, I'm talking about correlation with other aspects of civil life such as democracy and freedom of the press like I said. I don't believe the death penalty deters crime. In fact it's completely obvious that it doesn't. It is all kinds of different factors in society that promote or prevent crime.

If you look at the countries with the most death penalty they are often the countries with the worst records on all kinds of human rights including cruel and unusual punishment, trial without jury (includes Japan,) lack of democracy, autocratic regimes, corruption, and so on.

I realise this is a kind of wishy-washy left-wing viewpoint.

Respectfully, it deters the crime for that guy.

I used to be anti death penalty until I saw former lifers getting out of prison. Life sentence in the US does not mean life.

1-Frazzled, whats the point of that picture? I don't see the connection.

Point? This is the OT Board We don't need no steenking points...

Deterrence is supposed to be the discouragement of non-offenders from offending, not the prevention of repeat offending.

It's obvious that killing someone prevents them from committing more crimes, however it would be better to reduce the number of first offences rather than repeat offences. The death penalty has never achieved that goal.

A different solution to the life term problem is to (a) assign a tariff, such as minimum 20 years for murder, (b) good quality rehabilitation and (c) an effective parole service.

In the UK, it is possible for the Home Secretary to set a fixed lifetime tariff -- Life means Life. This is generally used for extremely beastly criminals who are not clinically insane.

Thats not generally possible here. Many with the moniker "life sentence with no parole" have been given just that.

I know, let's implement the Chinese system, that ought to speed things up and empty the death row blocks quite a bit. Best of all, you can hack up the condemned afterwards, salvage their organs and donate them to those in need. Booyah, two birds, one stone.

BrookM wrote:I know, let's implement the Chinese system, that ought to speed things up and empty the death row blocks quite a bit. Best of all, you can hack up the condemned afterwards, salvage their organs and donate them to those in need. Booyah, two birds, one stone.

Sad thing is, that isn't the worst plan.

BrookM wrote:I know, let's implement the Chinese system, that ought to speed things up and empty the death row blocks quite a bit. Best of all, you can hack up the condemned afterwards, salvage their organs and donate them to those in need. Booyah, two birds, one stone.

You mean, the system wherein you arrest the needy for saying something the government doesn't like, then kill them and harvest their organs for the wealthy.

Let them rot. It's much more satisfying.

Take away their rights.

How much does Cabbage soup and cold water cost for (estimate) 50 years?

sA

Frazzled wrote:

Bizarrely enough that man looks incredibly like me. Hansom mofo



Though I don't really fish.

I hope it's not somebody on this forum.

generalgrog wrote:

p.s. I have an idea! Send them all to this big island called Australia....oh wait nm.

It's a pity we cant pay another country that needs the cash to take them. Then take away their passport. Some place with lots of random killing, so they can be at home. Darfor (how to spell?)

Kilkrazy wrote: trial without jury (includes Japan,) lack of democracy, autocratic regimes, corruption, and so on.

I realise this is a kind of wishy-washy left-wing viewpoint.

Japan have a legitimate legal system, that has 3+ judges in the place of a jury. Not to railroad the innocent, just to avoid tards in the jury. It's not like Jpn has particularly harsh punishments or something.

Also right or wrong, your view point is hardly wishy washy liberal - it's just clear yank bashing. (Not that that is necessarily bad or anything )

Kilkrazy wrote:
In the UK, it is possible for the Home Secretary to set a fixed lifetime tariff -- Life means Life. This is generally used for extremely beastly criminals who are not clinically insane.

Too rarely. So many people get pitiful punishments in Eng for kicking people to death etc. Then you read a story in the paper about a women getting charged for sending her child to a school in the next area or whatever

DOUBLE POST! YES!

Frazzled wrote:

Mongol Hordes or it didn't happen.

sA

China also has a legitimate legal system, according to their own rules.

Japan's legal system falls well below the standard we expect in the USA and Europe in terms of things like Habeus Corpus, the use of confessions instead of evidence, and the lack of a jury. Interestingly, the Japanese are introducing a jury system, it has just gone into operation. This was due to pressure from the EU or UN HRC, it was because the Japanese government themselves felt there was a deficit in their justice system.

Japan has the death penalty. Once convicted, the prisoner is put into solitary confinement for days, weeks or years. Every morning, the guards walk along the row of cells, and one day they stop at his door. Within 10 minutes he is swinging, and a note is sent to his next of kin to collect the body.

I am afraid that 'tards' are part of society, and if we want society to be democratic and representative, they must have the chance to be on a jury like anyone else.

I know it would be nice to get rid of all the tards. The problem is who decides who the tards are, and on what basis. It has been tried before. It often goes well at the beginning, but it tends to end up with getting rid of everyone who doesn't agree with the minority of borderline crazies who managed to shove themselves into power at the crucial time.

Like Winston Churchill said, Democracy is a terrible form of government whose only advantage was that all the others that had been tried were worse.

I think the death penalty is more of a fearful thing. Like, if your in jail your sponging off the taxpayers, and stuck in a little room, but your still alive. If you're dead, you're dead, and death scares most people. I would like to see more rapists/murderers/evil people dead. They are a waste of my oxygen.

In my opinion. I would rather die than live in a cell for the rest of my life.

But then if that cell had tv, video games, three wholsome meals a day, courses I could get qualifications on, sports teams etc. and a life scentence which didn't mean life. I'd rather have that.

Exactly.

utan wrote:

BrookM wrote:I know, let's implement the Chinese system, that ought to speed things up and empty the death row blocks quite a bit. Best of all, you can hack up the condemned afterwards, salvage their organs and donate them to those in need. Booyah, two birds, one stone.

You mean, the system wherein you arrest the needy for saying something the government doesn't like, then kill them and harvest their organs for the wealthy.

Sounds not that far removed from what the US is moving towards in the long run.

Just an aside, how many of the anti death penalty folks posting on this topic are pro-abortion?

I don't know anyone who is pro abortion.

I know people, and am myself, pro the option being available in certain circumstances however.

reds8n wrote:I don't know anyone who is pro abortion.

*Raises hand*

Everyone should be able to choose, regardless of the situation.

And I hate children, so abortions make me a little happy on the inside when I hear about them.

Mattlov wrote:A quick Google tells me in Florida it averages to more than $19,000 PER YEAR, about $53 PER DAY, per inmate. That is INSANE.
There are a lot of people who don't even make that much money in a year, and we waste it on law breaking citizens.

That's a pretty silly opinion right there, because it's not one person who's being asked to pay for it.

A quick Google tells me that roughly 18,328,340 people live in Florida (0), so this works out at 0.001 dollars per taxpayer, per year. That's a tenth of a penny. I think even Florida residents can find a penny in the street and pay for ten prisoners to live for a year.

My opinion os thus: No-one can say someone doesn't deserve to live. The victim certainly didn't deserve to die, but adding to the body count never solved anything.
However my extended opinion is that if you take away someone's human rights, through any violent or heinous act, then you should lose yours. I'd gladly pay my taxes knowing that rapists were being kept at the bottom of a muddy hole and being fed glass.

Tek wrote:

My opinion os thus: No-one can say someone doesn't deserve to live.

The we don't. Gutter tripe nonsense.

However my extended opinion is that if you take away someone's human rights, through any violent or heinous act, then you should lose yours.

So I guess all soldiers get the death penalty with you hey?

mcfly wrote:I think the death penalty is more of a fearful thing. Like, if your in jail your sponging off the taxpayers, and stuck in a little room, but your still alive. If you're dead, you're dead, and death scares most people. I would like to see more rapists/murderers/evil people dead. They are a waste of my oxygen.

Everyone keeps saying this, but there is no evidence that the death penalty in itself deters criminals.

What does deter criminals is a high chance of being caught and convicted. The punishment is secondary -- obviously it has to be reasonably substantial, however if you KNEW you were 100% guaranteed to get a year in prison every single time you burgled a house, would you be a burglar?

Frazzled wrote:

Tek wrote:

My opinion os thus: No-one can say someone doesn't deserve to live.

The we don't. Gutter tripe nonsense.

However my extended opinion is that if you take away someone's human rights, through any violent or heinous act, then you should lose yours.

So I guess all soldiers get the death penalty with you hey?

Thats different. Soldiers kill Soldiers. Soldiers are prepared to die on the job. it's their job. murderers kill people who arent prepared to die, and who had no reason to be killed.

Some US state (I think it was Texas) had some thing awhile ago that in cases of heinous crimes if there are 2 or more credible eye witnesses then you dont get an appeal, they just mash ya quick. I like that idea. if you have cases where the 85 appeals are moot, it should cost very little to put them under.

Thats different. Soldiers kill Soldiers. Soldiers are prepared to die on the job. it's their job. murderers kill people who arent prepared to die, and who had no reason to be killed.

Respectfully, I disagree.

They are still robbing the other person of their human rights. Plus I'd proffer very few are actually prepared to die. How do you prepare to die?

How about cops?

Mattlov,
You are absolutely disgusting.

Welcome to the ignore list.

GG