Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Really?

Really Bro

Wow. What a tremendously screwed up tournament. Never have so few made so many so miserable and all because in their arrogance they think they know all. Judges who have no sense of competition should ever judge comp.

I stepped away from this thread a day or so ago I think and it has exploded. I will give my 2 pennies worth. Organizing a tournie is a thankless task - god along knows why people do it. Everyone has an opinion and the awesome thing about compromises is it usually annoy everyone.

That being send, if you read the original posts, there is an acceptence that things weren't the best and that they were short handed. There was even an offer to talk about it. Seemed quite mature to me. As per usual in these threads the hyperbole gets more and more and more and more and more and more racketed up. The last post I read was just pure sillyness.

What is about this hobby where we cannot have as something as simple as a tournie without all this DRAMA!! I don't get it - it seems almost every big tournie last year has had a 10 page bitch fest. You know what the solution is - have ago at running your own. You take the heat from every jumped up person who thinks he should have got this instead of that. You take the heat fro trying to judge painting across 50+ people in the space of an hour as people are whining at hold ups. What's that saying - "walk a mile in someones shoes...." I am willing to bet most of the people with the loudest complaints (with a few exceptions as they have stated) couldn't organize a tournie of 8 people let alone 50+

I used to enjoy playing tournies. People spoilt it for me.

All tournaments generally have some form of drama, its inevitable. I agree with the "walk a mile in someones shoes...." idea. I couldn't organize and run a tournament at all. Then again I'm a kid.

I just loudly pointed out Ted's painting score, which the large font may have been slightly immature but it got the general idea across. I don't really care for the rest of the tournaments drama, but I felt I had to defend his painting skill. I also painted the Ork army I compared Ted's SW too. That was the only problem I voiced.

Otherwise take it up to PMs with the TO. The mods already locked this once

I might not have been completely happy with my own comp....but I fall into the camp of "If you want it done right, do it yourself...otherwise shaddap" =p

I don't plan on hosting a tournament, so I'll be grateful that someone else is putting forth the effort to do it so I can attend. Although, open-scoring, transparency, and all those things would be good for any GT.

I'm way to into playing in a tourney to ever run one. But that being said all I advocate is clear and open scoring on anything that affects the outcome of the tournament standings. I generally don't care to much about an event as long as I have a good time as long as I know why I finished where I did

As you can tell in Marc's post, he spent hundreds of dollars to attend this event.

When you pay $60-$70 for an event, you expect it to be done professionally.

Most people are use to going to their local RTTs and then if there are major issues it is not a problem. But when you host a large event, a lot of people have invested a lot of money and they have a right to expect it to be a well run event.


Telling someone who spent hundreds of dollars that the solution is to run their own GT is idiotic. I think who ever says that should apply that principal to everything in their life. Don't like some of Game Workshops rules? Start your own game company! You don't like you banks fees? Start your own bank! If you have a car that is a lemon, build your own car! That is great customer service!

wow... i missed a few days in this thread and tons has changed. i thought the comp was WAY off on a few of the lists but to find out that the comp judges were playing in the tourny too seems to explain that mess. add in the reports of shenanigans from the 2nd place winner and that makes for one heck of a mess. for someone who apparently runs quite a few events at his store, this one was very poorly planned. i second the recommendations that comp (if used.. i personally still like comp) guidelines be clear and posted well in advance. if they are, it doesn't matter who judges comp as the results are clearly reproducible. i recently attended a FLGS tourney run by a local group where the scoring for all objectives as well as fav army and opponent were "secret" for all intents and purposes until the scores were released. my battlepoints weren't all that great and the entrance fee was quite reasonable so i didn't raise a stink. if i had spent several hundred on gas/flights/hotel/food/entrance fee, you'd bet i'd have called shenanigans and posted my opinions online. people have every right to be pissed.

this was not a free event with no consequence; this was a paid tourney with prize support including a ticket to a special invitation only event. telling them to just run their own event if they don't like it when apparently a lack of professionalism was present is not the appropriate response.

fullheadofhair wrote:I stepped away from this thread a day or so ago I think and it has exploded. I will give my 2 pennies worth. Organizing a tournie is a thankless task - god along knows why people do it.

It's only a headache when done poorly. It's actually not that hard to host a tournament without drama. I posted this short guide in another thread:

1. Composition. Get rid of it.

2. Painting score. Should not affect battle points at all. Rather, have different prizes. One for 'best general' and one for 'best army' (painting/theme). During the lunch break on Day 1 have players nominate armies. On Day 2 have judges make the final selection from the top 3.

3. Basic logistics.
A. Have a hard deadline for army list submission. Penalize late entries. Use army builder and enter every entry (OMG that will take time!!!) and then print out a copy to have for the player when they arrive.
B. Use standard missions and announce them well in advance. For a five game tournament the distribution should be 2 Seize Ground with 5 objectives, 2 Kill Point, and 1 Capture and Control. Deployments should be 2 pitched battle, 2 spearhead, 1 dawn of war.
C. Use a data projector, large screen, and excel to provide an open, transparent view of the standings. Simple score cards will allow the data entry to take no more than five minutes. Obviously no one should EVER play the same person twice.

4. Scoring. Whatever system is adopted it needs to be simple and well presented. I find the following system works best:

First step - decide who is the winner based on rulebook rules. The result is always 15 (winner) :5 (looser). If it's tied on the objectives both players recieve 10.
Second step
Compute Victory Points (VP) difference. The player having the VP difference in his favour gets a bonus, the other one gets a malus.
Difference in vps / game points bonus / malus
1450-1750 / +5 / -5
1150-1449 / +4 / -4
850-1149 / +3 / -3
550-849 / +2 / -2
250-549 / +1 / -1
0-249 / no bonus & malus for vps

5. Rules FAQs. Adopt a comprehensive FAQ, either the INAT or the ETC (European Team Championship).

6. Terrain. Remember the rulebook recommend 25% of the table should have some type of terrain on it.

7. Judges. You'll need a few of these who have no other responsibilities on the day.

8. Prize support. This should reflect the number of entries. Personally I prefer proper trophies rather than GW products, but to each their own.

fullheadofhair wrote:I stepped away from this thread a day or so ago I think and it has exploded. I will give my 2 pennies worth. Organizing a tournie is a thankless task - god along knows why people do it.

Did you say a thankless task?

50 Players at $60=$3000 (-Prize support)

Is that not thanks enough?

Ludwig wrote:

Ok so now you explain to me how you comp. isn’t low, maybe it’s not a 1 maybe it’s a 5, but it most certainly low. What I find funny is that you sit here and complain, but you know you comp was going to be low. So please don’t pretend that we did you this great injustice. The book is brand new, we choose to be cautious, there was no reason not to be. If someone told you comp was a 10 I’m sorry mistakes happen, but you were scored appropriately.

Marc was told by the organizer on the phone that was an army that would get a good score!

Blackmoor wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:I stepped away from this thread a day or so ago I think and it has exploded. I will give my 2 pennies worth. Organizing a tournie is a thankless task - god along knows why people do it.

Did you say a thankless task?

50 Players at $60=$3000 (-Prize support)

Is that not thanks enough?

What's the rent on the bunker space, Allan? The other fixed costs associated with the space? How about the cost of the terrain? How many hours went into running the event, do you think? And how much was prize support worth? I recall hearing about Forgeworld stuff, and I don't believe stores get any break on that stuff....

I know what my time is worth, and given the work involved in running one of these events, it sure isn't worth MY time, if viewed as a financial transaction. Tournaments are good for keeping general interest in the hobby up, but they aren't tremendously profitable in and of themselves.

Just the staff costs could easily eat up a lot of $3,000.

Gah!

I've been found out...

Ha ha! I found you too.

Fun time at the bar Saturday night. Glad the Advil helped on Sunday

Yes it was,

Actually when its all said and done, it was a great weekend all around.

I had five of the best games I have had in a long time against five really great guys and had an absolute blast in the "after hours" activities.

and the Advil was a great help,
Thanks!

* WOOOOOOH WOOOOOOOH WOOOOOOOOH *

Guhzillions of red fire trucks pull up and proced to starting hosing down this thread.

Alex, you never made it over to our table Saturday night!

But yeah; had a great time! The wife and I are probably going to make the trip to Mechanicon late this year; hope to see you there.

Modquisition on.

I am closing this thread. Way too much drama and I have to keep stopping from replying to these posts. Ragnar KK, bug me on the Mod forum/PM if you want this...thing kept alive.




Genghis Connie Ponders your fate:


Oh it doesn't look good.


Ah, here comes the executioner