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GW has put in some changes to the Ork FAQ. Of note, down at the bottom, is a clarification on Deffrollas ramming vehicles. INAT had ruled you could not. Since GW has said that 'yes you can', we will be playing the rule that way from now on.

ttp://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m970066a_2010_Orks_FAQ

How this affects the tournament:

-If you have a deffrolla in your list, it now can ram vehicles.

-Players, Ork or non-ork, will not be allowed to adjust their lists. It is just to close to the tournament, would necessitate judging comp on those lists again, and would get in the way of the work we need to do to make the tournament run smoothly. I would also like to put up Scenarios this afternoon, and can't if people are changing lists.

So if you have a deffrolla, it got better. If you don't, you didn't lose anything.

Bad timing on their part, but my future ork army lists will rejoice!!! *cheers*

Mission 4: The deployment rules seem to hurt armies with no real usable FA slots vs. those that do (CSM or Orks vs. Typhoon Spam, Vendettas, etc.). To balance this, maybe have a "nearby" option like in DoW so that players can auto-get all their stuff on their turn 1 if they want it immediately or leave it in reserve if they want to play reserve games? This is the one real issue I have with the missions.

I'll discuss this with the crew, thanks for the feedback. And noticed that I'll need to fix that small error, where I say how the first player deploys, and ignore how the second player deploys.)

Your mission 2 has 20 available battlepoints compared to the others all having 21 (10, 7, 4)

I don't know if that's intentional or not; just pointing it out.

It has one bonus point at the end, for 21. I'll make that clearer. I could just be construed as fluff, the way I wrote it.

Thanks

Missions look fine other then Mission 4 does not describe how player 2 deploys.

Would it be possible to post all the army lists to see what people are playing or at least the army lists of the winners if thats too much work? The European online tourneys always did this and it was interesting to see what people played.

Kirika wrote:Missions look fine other then Mission 4 does not describe how player 2 deploys.

Would it be possible to post all the army lists to see what people are playing or at least the army lists of the winners if thats too much work? The European online tourneys always did this and it was interesting to see what people played.

It wouldn't be too bad, if they all came to me in the same format. But some are army builder, others just typed, some handed in, some by email, and even a couple handwritten. If I get a volunteer to type them all up, it's possible. Not probably, but possible.)

mikhaila wrote:It has one bonus point at the end, for 21. I'll make that clearer. I could just be construed as fluff, the way I wrote it.

Thanks

If I read correctly, all missions have a bonus point available, except that mission 2 just has 21 possible points (including bonus) opposed to the other rounds having 22 (including bonus point?)

I could well be reading it wrong.

Dashofpepper wrote:

mikhaila wrote:It has one bonus point at the end, for 21. I'll make that clearer. I could just be construed as fluff, the way I wrote it.

Thanks

If I read correctly, all missions have a bonus point available, except that mission 2 just has 21 possible points (including bonus) opposed to the other rounds having 22 (including bonus point?)

I could well be reading it wrong.

ah, I see. Yep, you're right, I need another point in there.
thanks

Also, in mission 4, there are 5 objectives, one of which is in the center. The center objective, however, has no effect on victory.

DevianID wrote:Also, in mission 4, there are 5 objectives, one of which is in the center. The center objective, however, has no effect on victory.

Can't believe I missed that one. =p

Dashofpepper wrote:

DevianID wrote:Also, in mission 4, there are 5 objectives, one of which is in the center. The center objective, however, has no effect on victory.

Can't believe I missed that one. =p

Ah, that was there from the mission I adapted in the battle missions books. Thanks, I can remove that since it's not needed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edited missions to correct the missing point, and the extraneous objective. So much easier with several sets of eyes looking things over, thanks guys.

Can I recommend switching mission 2 and 3?

Reason being, you had mentioned that round 1 and 2 would be sorted via comp scores. I would much rather play round 3, football, with someone ~@ my comp/skill level, thus I would like round 2 to be "football."

Since round 2 currently rewards killing each other, I see two low comp armies both easily scoring 18ish, where as 2 high comp armies, by definition less killy/weaker than others, will have a hard time racking up gigantic wins versus their mirrored opponent with similar comp/skill, leading to maybe 8ish points each. Football, which has a reward for winning the game, as opposed to just killing stuff, seems a better round 2 comp paired mission.

Plus, since round 3 starts the mixed comp bracket, as it stands currently if a low comp army, which still would have gotten a potential 18 points in round 2 even if he got tabled, plays against a high comp army, the low comp is more likely to control the game of football leaving the poor high comp opponent with almost 0 points. At least if the rounds were switched, the maximum the low comp force could get is a 20 off a high comp weaker force (since round 2 currently has the fewer points, it wouldn't need to change) and the high comp force could still earn some points off the better/stronger low comp force for killing a few units, even if the low comp force ends up tabling the poor guy!

Wall of text done, hope my analysis serves as a useful tool!

If it counts for anything (and it doesn't) I like the idea. I think I'm one of those high-comp weak armies. =p

Can bikers pick up the football in mission #3?

Kevin Nash wrote:
Can bikers pick up the football in mission #3?

Oh...snap! Good call there.

24" movement per turn with troops; game could be over on turn2. =p

Mikhaila, I've run into this in a tournament before, they had a rule about the football only being able to move 6" during the movement phase (with a normal run) and being dropped in assault - but instead of a football, they had a wounded hostage or some such, and could only move as fast as the hostage for fluff reasons to get around bikers.

Kevin Nash wrote:
Can bikers pick up the football in mission #3?

Probably not since they are not infantry.

Mike,

I have some issue with the Dawn Raid scenario.

What about changing the troop portion to any troop instead of troops in dedicated transports? I know 5th is a mech heavy edition, but not everyone uses transports. This scenario benefits armies that are mechanized while hurting a foot slogging list. Nids and necrons wouldnt have a troop model on the table since they cant place their troops in transports. Plus you are making a slogging army walk 36 inches to just get to an objective since they are coming in from reserves. Which gives them no chance to fire a heavy weapon. Additionally, your bonus point for this mission only allows for FA units to claim this. What if the guy is not playing with any FA units? I ask this because I have no FA in my army. This should be changed to match the Tertiary objective conditions.

This scenario reminds me of the old 3rd and 4th edition Heavy Doc scenario. The scenarios should be balanced and not favor any one play style (Mech or infantry).

Just my thoughts.

PS. Kinda sucks that there are so many objective scenarios. 4 out of the 5 require an objective to win. But that is just my opinion.

We're looking at that one, and will probably make adjustments, based partly on feedback here.

Panurgle wrote:

Kevin Nash wrote:
Can bikers pick up the football in mission #3?

Probably not since they are not infantry.

Gee I hope no one is playing a biker list. They just auto lose that mission.

Kevin Nash wrote:

Panurgle wrote:

Kevin Nash wrote:
Can bikers pick up the football in mission #3?

Probably not since they are not infantry.

Gee I hope no one is playing a biker list. They just auto lose that mission.

Good point.
But I do think the rule book (pg 4 in small book) separates units by types: infantry, monstrous creatures, beast/calvary, walkers, jump infantry, jetbikes/bikes, artillery, and vehicles.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Kevin Nash wrote:
Can bikers pick up the football in mission #3?

Oh...snap! Good call there.

24" movement per turn with troops; game could be over on turn2. =p

Mikhaila, I've run into this in a tournament before, they had a rule about the football only being able to move 6" during the movement phase (with a normal run) and being dropped in assault - but instead of a football, they had a wounded hostage or some such, and could only move as fast as the hostage for fluff reasons to get around bikers.

That's why bikers, jump infantry, beasts, etc cannot pick up the ball, and why you can only pick up the ball at the end of the phase. Saw this played once where the unit could grab it by moving over it. Bad rule.) Turboboosting bikes grabbed it immediately, headed back to their board edge, and never lost the ball as they turboed around the board.

Pretty sure we have 0 all bike armies in the tournement. Did see two for 'Ardboyz regionals last year though. And there are 11 other points to get that don't need you to pick up the football.

Great scenarios. Real inspired stuff here. As an infantry based player though I was really disappointed to read scenario 4. Having my entire army in reserve will pretty much take me out of the game without even rolling any dice. If I am lucky enough to have a scoring unit show up from reserve on turn 2 I will have to REALLY start trucking to have any hope of making it to just plain contesting my opponent's objective....since I'll be spending all of my time slogging and running I will hardly have any energy to also SHOOT the guy to try and get him off his objective.

I understand wanting to have a quirky scenario that benefits players who brough heavy mech/fast attack lists, but I think they benefit just a tad too much. Perhaps to change it: "you may deploy all fast atttack and 2 troop selections (kind of like how dawn of war works but with FA taking the HQ slot)....rest comes on turn one like dawn of war"????

Thanks for reading, I am excited for the tournament. I really appreciate our chance to give input and I'm happy with the other 4 scenarios.

I understand wanting to have a quirky scenario that benefits players who brough heavy mech/fast attack lists, but I think they benefit just a tad too much. Perhaps to change it: "you may deploy all fast atttack and 2 troop selections (kind of like how dawn of war works but with FA taking the HQ slot)....rest comes on turn one like dawn of war"????

Yep, does need some fixing. I'll put this with the other imput on it. Scenarios should be interesting, but not at the expense of making them crippling.

I am enjoying getting the feedback and doublechecking here on Dakka. Having a lot of eyes and brains looking at things helps. Better to catch my errors now, then have to live with them in the tournament.)

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but scenario 2 says: "Units taken below half, or below half, ..."

Little catch


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That brings up a good point actually.....

How are victory points calculated for combat squads that have been split up? How about for units of monsters?

NotMatthew wrote:Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but scenario 2 says: "Units taken below half, or below half, ..."

Little catch


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That brings up a good point actually.....

How are victory points calculated for combat squads that have been split up? How about for units of monsters?

For units of monsters, if they lose half their wounds, or more than half their wounds, they count as half VP of the original unit. So 3 carnifexes is 12 wounds. Get them to 6, and you get half the points. 3 lictors is 9 wounds, so you need to drop them to 4 wounds in the brood for half points.

For combat squads, treat each squad separately and as if they were worth 50% of the original squad.

And thanks for the catch on units below half, or below half...man I was up late typing that night.) Will change that to units taken to half, or below half.

The intention is that if you bring down a unit to half strength, you get half points. My wording obviously needs to convey that better.)

I think one of your missions should be nightfight all game. *coughs*

Also, ork players should get +1 attack during their Waaaugh, which should last the whole game. *looks around suspiciously*

Your all in for a treat when you see the tourney room, its to die for.

Hopefully you see this before we pull out in the morning for a 7 hour jaunt - the weather says flights are cancelled, PA is getting bad storms; any chance the GT will be canceled? I don't want to drive up and drive back. ><

Is there a possibility of this event being canceled due to the snow storm? They're saying like a foot.

Currently, I think the problem with flights are the very high winds. We really haven't gotten much in the way of snow yet. I just checked, and there is less than an inch where I'm at. I live about 5 miles NW of the Philly airport. Internet has pretty garbled reports for weather. Lots of the same info copied from site to site, and saying we are getting way more than what the local weather services predict.

Locally, they are saying my area might get 3-6 inches overnight, and then next to nothing most of friday, nothing saturday. Lots of the generic 'weather.com' sites say 4-6 tonite, and 8-12 tomorrow, which had me worried. Going south, looks like less, going north, it looks like a lot more. Glad I don't live in New England.

The only way we would not hold a tournament is if snow was so bad that the mall closes. They hate to do that unless it's a State of Emergency. It takes at least a couple of feet of snow for them to shut down. They loose money.)

If it gets only partially hideous, and lots of people can't come, we still hold a tournament. We might cut down a bit on the prizes, and hold some over later, and hold another big tournament in a month or two. (Got to get past Adepticon at least.) Or expand our big event in July to more people and tickets to Vegas. Just guessing now.

But whatever happens, we'll work it out so the most people get to game, and get chances at vegas, and a big chunk of prizes. I'll post updates here and on our site at Showcasecomicsandgames.com