Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2015/06/05 00:43:12
Subject: Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience)
mbutler132000 wrote: It has been a little over a month since I have received any type of communication with this person. Has anyone else heard anything from him?
I think you guys honestly need to stop letting him take you for a ride. You aren't getting your stuff back. File with the police. Don't wait another day.
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
2015/06/05 00:53:07
Subject: Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience)
At this point guys I would say that you're not getting your stuff back. The police will most likely not do anything about it, unfortunately as the dollar amounts aren't really high enough for them to be bothered to do anything. All you can do is try and steer people away from using his service, as he is still referring to his paint service as the largest and best in Canada and the UK for some reason.
2015/06/07 20:28:03
Subject: Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience)
Hardly, this customer started a project and started coming to my house only 6 days after the project started. If that's not unreasonable I don't know what is. He came to my house at times when i either not home or at like 7am. He had constant contact just decided to come without notice and we are not open to the public. At one point he even tried to convince someone else that lives in the house to break into my house for him. He cancelled his project early therefore losing his deposit and he also told me to keep the money in an email and that he just wanted the stuff after seeing this post on dakka dakka.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And again twinner your constant slandering is only.making it take longer to get these customers there projects. As I stated before in order to have time to complete the projects we also have to be a business and a business can't exist without continuing along with their services while fixing old mistakes.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/07/20 04:43:25
Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote: He cancelled his project early therefore losing his deposit and he also told me to keep the money in an email and that he just wanted the stuff after seeing this post on dakka dakka.
So did you give him his stuff?
-------------------------------------------------------
"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote: He cancelled his project early therefore losing his deposit and he also told me to keep the money in an email and that he just wanted the stuff after seeing this post on dakka dakka.
So did you give him his stuff?
Yup, of coarse. As soon as I found out he came to my house from the other person that lives here I arranged a day for him to come. He said he could only come at 7 am on Saturday morning so he came and got his stuff. I put it on the doorknob at 6:50 or something like that so he wouldn't knock.on the door as he had come.before pounding on the door.early in the morning to the point where a the other person that lived here almost called the police.
Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote: He cancelled his project early therefore losing his deposit and he also told me to keep the money in an email and that he just wanted the stuff after seeing this post on dakka dakka.
So did you give him his stuff?
Yup, of coarse. As soon as I found out he came to my house from the other person that lives here I arranged a day for him to come. He said he could only come at 7 am on Saturday morning so he came and got his stuff. I put it on the doorknob at 6:50 or something like that so he wouldn't knock.on the door as he had come.before pounding on the door.early in the morning to the point where a the other person that lived here almost called the police.
Has he been back to your house after he got his stuff?
-------------------------------------------------------
"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote: He cancelled his project early therefore losing his deposit and he also told me to keep the money in an email and that he just wanted the stuff after seeing this post on dakka dakka.
So did you give him his stuff?
Yup, of coarse. As soon as I found out he came to my house from the other person that lives here I arranged a day for him to come. He said he could only come at 7 am on Saturday morning so he came and got his stuff. I put it on the doorknob at 6:50 or something like that so he wouldn't knock.on the door as he had come.before pounding on the door.early in the morning to the point where a the other person that lived here almost called the police.
Has he been back to your house after he got his stuff?
No he hasn't. I haven't seen or heard from him since last Saturday. I sure hope he doesn't, I got a weird vibe and he kept lying about what city he lived in then the cherry on the cake was when I heard he tried to get in my house while I wasn't home. I vouched I will never meet another customer at home again.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think we can all agree that 6 days for a commission is not too long. I dI'd not say it would be done in a day, I said I could. Essentially finish a project of this size in a day or so but because I have other customers projects as well things don't work like that..he basically.twisted my words to better his story..and I really.don't even know what the issue is.considering he told me to keep the $55 and he has his models.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/20 05:51:10
Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote: He cancelled his project early therefore losing his deposit and he also told me to keep the money in an email and that he just wanted the stuff after seeing this post on dakka dakka.
So did you give him his stuff?
Yup, of coarse. As soon as I found out he came to my house from the other person that lives here I arranged a day for him to come. He said he could only come at 7 am on Saturday morning so he came and got his stuff. I put it on the doorknob at 6:50 or something like that so he wouldn't knock.on the door as he had come.before pounding on the door.early in the morning to the point where a the other person that lived here almost called the police.
Has he been back to your house after he got his stuff?
No he hasn't. I haven't seen or heard from him since last Saturday. I sure hope he doesn't, I got a weird vibe and he kept lying about what city he lived in then the cherry on the cake was when I heard he tried to get in my house while I wasn't home. I vouched I will never meet another customer at home again.
So a customer read this thread and decided to cut his losses (the deposit) and not risk having his stuff disappear in limbo.
Based on the information provided in this thread, he then decided that getting his stuff back quickly was the prudent thing to do. This was done by going to your place of business and picking it up.
There was some planning issues, and those issues were consequently resolved.
Is that about right?
-------------------------------------------------------
"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
Automatically Appended Next Post: Very strange situation. I'm shocked that he went and made a post about this on kijiji when I did nothing and literally gave him no problem at all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/20 05:55:10
I think we can safely assume that the customer considered the information given in this thread to be an accurate representation for your business practices.
I assume that there was a slight miscommunication regarding how quickly the order would be finished (based on your 6 day/1 day information).
Given that, are you really surprised by his reaction to get the hell out at the slightest sign of (from his point of view) foul play?
-------------------------------------------------------
"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
Yeah I am because I'm only just finding out today that he thought it would be one day.
Automatically Appended Next Post: and like I said 6 days for a commission is hardly a long time at all. Almost every painting company including myself has a 2-6 week waiting period on most projects and it is stated on the website. 2-6 weeks is only when you are on schedule. I've seen a time when one of the biggest painting companies with a great reputation was 12 weeks behind on top of the original 6 weeks.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Sometimes it takes more then 6 days just to order supplies for that individual project.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Not to mention his was a match project where I had to match another painters work with absolutely no idea of the colors used. The time frame expectation of this project was sorely underestimated by the client.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As well considering the guy met me at my house it's safe to say there was no scam occurring.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/07/20 06:19:13
Automatically Appended Next Post: and like I said 6 days for a commission is hardly a long time at all. Almost every painting company including myself has a 2-6 week waiting period on most projects and it is stated on the website. 2-6 weeks is only when you are on schedule. I've seen a time when one of the biggest painting companies with a great reputation was 12 weeks behind on top of the original 6 weeks.
I agree with you. 6 days isn't long at all, but that isn't really relevant here.
The customer had a different expectation and, given your reputation, reacted in a certain way when his expectations weren't met.
How can that come as a shock?
Clearly there was some miscommunication regarding the deadline. You cannot afford that with your past dealings. Perhaps that is the primary thing to take away from this situation.
-------------------------------------------------------
"He died because he had no honor. He had no honor and the Emperor was watching."
Sure I see your point but I don't believe 6 days is long enough to make that assumption. He chose to back out so I think this is on him. If this had of been weeks and week and week then I agree it's my fault but I did nothing of the sort.
Automatically Appended Next Post: This shouldn't be held against me considering this was simply just a customer that backed out in fear. I did nothing. Wrong to make him scared it was only when he seen this post that he wanted to back out at an unreasonable time. Therefore I really could do nothing about it. All business was handled professionally and contact was made with this customer the entire time.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/20 06:27:40
Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote: Lmao why? I have no obligation to post here at all. I can really care less what is said here and what is not.
Can care less means cares. If you don't care then why do you come here to defend your shady operation?
As to why does it matter if you delete posts. Well that's because you are accused, seemingly with some validity, of being a shyster and a charlatan. Deleting your posts paints you in a poor possibly even deceptive light. If you can stand by your word then why delete especially when it aids weight to the claims against you?
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website "
2015/07/20 13:20:12
Subject: Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience)
I post here for the current customers that post here. There are 2 people In the entire room that I care about the rest are not customers nor do they know what's actually going on.
Automatically Appended Next Post: After all the thread is titled " Anyone work with Battlegrounds..." not "people who have never dealt with him post stuff that's irrelevant"
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/20 13:34:14
Ok, I just read every post in this thread....today....this is ridiculous. I don't understand how this isn't theft. BGW, you've taken stuff from people and not given them what was promised in return, that is theft no matter how you want to spin it. Also, mbutler has asked multiple times that you send that Razorback to him no matter the condition and it doesn't appear that this has been accomplished. There is no excuse for this. I work, I have a family, but if I sell something on ebay somehow I find the 1/2 hour to pack the item and get it to the post office, and you cannot claim now to not know he doesn't want it finished. Until you take the simple step of sending his property back, you still have taken something of his and not returned it which is the basic definition of theft. This makes everything else you post mean nothing. There is no further excuse. And with twinner, you have taken money for services that you have not rendered, and you are well beyond resonable time for the service to be provided; your best bet with this one would be to send his models back and refund his money, this will help to start clearing up your reputation and prove that everything you say isn't just empty words to try to get people to stop bugging you for a while. I can tell you that, with everything I've seen here, I would never send you one Trooper to paint......and this is what everyone sees if they research your "service".....
Lol you clearly don't understand. This thread isn't my personal email. Me and MBulter talk through email and I'm. In the process of finishing his things. He changed his mind about sending it back regardless of completion.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for the person that posted that kijiji ad, he also received his stuff back with no hassle at all. All he had to do was contact us and make and appointment to pick it up. Instead he kept coming when no one was here.
Automatically Appended Next Post:Business goes on my friend. All the people with outstanding projects have been contacted the only people posting are people that really know nothing about whats happening. Considering you just tried to speak for mbultler when you really have zero idea what was going on with his project puts you in that category
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/07/20 22:32:16
Hey guys, this is a response from the guy the Sean is referring too, he does not have a DakkaDakka profil, so I will post this info for him.
Spoiler:
Here are some bits of our email conversations:
I first contacted Sean via the email link on his website and asked him if he could complete 10 Lychguard in a couple weeks. I honestly didn't expect him to do it.
He responded:
From: Sean Duncan (battlegroundswargaming@gmail.com)
Sent: July-04-15 7:25:57 AM To: Jeffrey Parent
Hello Jeff, when do you need them by? Essential 10 models can be painted in a few days.
I told him i needed them by July 18th.
After that we agreed on a price and that the commission would be done for my tourny on July 18th, Sean said he would send me progress pictures. When i didn't receive any in the first week (only 1 week to go) I sent him this email. There was no miscommunication. He told me it would only take a few days to complete the work and although he had other commissions he would squeeze mine in and get it done. The entire point of bringing him the models was to have them completed in two weeks for an upcoming tournament. Had he not told me he could do the work in that time i would never have commissioned him. He operates under false pretenses. I dropped off the models on July 6th at which time he again assured me they would be completed on time but that he couldn't start without a 50% deposit. I agreed and brought him $55 the next day. He was actually very prompt and waiting for me outside to get his money.
On 2015-07-06, at 9:57 AM, Sean Duncan <battlegroundswargaming@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh as for communication when you come by, my phone wont turn on right now for some reason so I probably wont have a phone so just email me when your heading over and we can arrange it like that.
On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 5:57 PM, Jeffrey Parent wrote:
Hey Sean, could you send me a quick pick after you get the 10 lychguard assembled prior to painting just to double check that they are the way i want them? I know that might sound silly but i've had issues in the past with assembly and this is the first time i have hired you.
Sean responded:
From: Sean Duncan (battlegroundswargaming@gmail.com)
Sent: July-10-15 12:35:54 PM To: Jeffrey Parent
Warhammer is my game. I get a little confused when it comes to warmachine tho
So I thought, no problem. But i never heard from Sean again or saw any pictures. Then i read about all the other people that had issues with Sean and didn't want to be another person scammed. I contacted him about pictures but i didn't get a response. I contacted him about coming in person to check out the models but didn't get a response. I told him i had read many things on Dakka Dakka about his business and was worried. Again no response. So on Wednesday July 15th at around 9am i popped by his basement. He was home but didn't answer and sent me this message:
From: Sean Duncan (battlegroundswargaming@gmail.com)
Sent: July-15-15 9:12:28 AM To: Jeffrey Parent
hey im not dressed
So I responded:
On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 9:38 AM, Jeffrey Parent wrote:
Okay I will be back shortly. Just haven't heard back from you and I want to make sure everything is okay with the models and we are on schedule. I wanted to check out the paint job in person as pictures are often inaccurate.
When I didn't get any response to my last 4 emails it kinda felt like you were ducking me and I've had some bad experiences with painters so I am being extra careful.
Then Sean responded as you can see below and I realized i was scammed.
From: Sean Duncan (battlegroundswargaming@gmail.com) This sender is in your safe list.
Sent: July-15-15 7:03:38 PM To: Jeffrey Parent
Hey I wasnt home today after U left. I left at like 9:20. I wont be done tmw, I am behind. At this point I have alrerady started. You are more then welcome to come pick the stuff up but I cannot refund the deposit at this point. You are only looking a another few days. Lemme know what you wanna do.
So then I responded that if he had already started and had half completed the commission i didn't expect my money back. I still wanted my property. I told him I could come anytime on Wednesday, Thursday or Friday to pick up the models. But again he never responded. Finally he responded and said i could come on Saturday. I asked what time i could come by and again he never replied.
Then he sent me these messages:
On 2015-07-16, at 11:54 PM, Sean Duncan <battlegroundswargaming@gmail.com> wrote:
As for your stuff I can meet you on Saturday. I have to work another job tmw. Won't be around. BTW you also told me you need the stuff for Saturday but also said you were going to have another painter paint it. I'm. 90% sure you will not find someone to do it in one day. What your saying makes no sense.
On Jul 16, 2015 11:22 PM, "Sean Duncan" <battlegroundswargaming@gmail.com> wrote:
I have have to say I've had a few issues with some guys during a time when I got really backed up and I'm actually still dealing with mbutler and a lot of those.guys as we speak. Some I have already finished and sent back there stuff. So the fact you threw away $55 just because you were scared is slowed. You realize I have connections with Warhammer retailers. Warhammer is.literally worth to me half of what you pay for it in the store. This stuff is peanuts and the faculty you think I want to steal. Your toys is ridiculous. As well there was no lack of communication. Do you want it do everything or I can spend all day on my email. I get enough emails.daily that is I did that I would be on my email all day. You have just been really weird even down to lying about where you live and work. You told me.multple times you lived in Georgetown, now apparently you live 5 minutes away.
So I responded:
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 5:03 AM, Jeffrey Parent <s.38f1hdcnqk37x@rts.kijiji.ca> wrote:
Thank you
I will be there at 7:30am on Saturday.
Then he sent me this email.
From: Sean Duncan (battlegroundswargaming@gmail.com) This sender is in your safe list.
Sent: July-17-15 10:18:36 AM To: Jeffrey Parent
and dont pound on the door again please. My landlord almost called the police on you. Not that they could do anything. Its just the degree in which you were knocking. I wasnt home for the second time when you were crying to my landlord about it not being fair, but I was for the first time but as I said I wasnt dressed and by the time I got dressed you had left. But when i heard you it was a very loud knock aswell.
So on Saturday I went to his house at 7:30am and my stuff was hanging on his doorknob. The boxes i had brought him were unopened and he hadn't started or done anything. So he lied about starting the work and he kept my $55.
Kevin, you can post this in DAKKA DAKKA if you want.
Jeff
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/20 23:32:07
Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote: As for the person that posted that kijiji ad, he also received his stuff back with no hassle at all.
Jeff - kijiji wrote:The boxes i had brought him were unopened and he hadn't started or done anything. So he lied about starting the work and he kept my $55.
2015/07/21 00:06:11
Subject: Anyone worked with Battlegrounds Wargaming (my terrible experience)
Doesn't matter. At that point I had the stuff in my hand ready to start. Regardless a project was started and a deposit was left. A deposit is a non refundable payment. If you decide to cancel before the statue of limitation passes then you lose your deposit. This is how every business operates. And when I said I had already started it doesn't just mean the model themselve, there are supplies that are needed to finish these projects therefore going out and gathering supplies and paying for them is starting on the project financially. Hence what a deposit is for, so you don't go and spend all your time. And money doing something for someone to cancel shortly after.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/07/21 00:09:19
Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote: Doesn't matter. At that point I had the stuff in my hand ready to start. Regardless a project was started and a deposit was left. A deposit is a non refundable payment. If you decide to cancel before the statue of limitation passes then you lose your deposit. This is how every business operates. And when I said I had already started it doesn't just mean the model themselve, there are supplies that are needed to finish these projects therefore going out and gathering supplies and paying for them is starting on the project financially. Hence what a deposit is for, so you don't go and spend all your time. And money doing something for someone to cancel shortly after.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Doesn't matter. At that point I had the stuff in my hand ready to start. Regardless a project was started and a deposit was left. A deposit is a non refundable payment. If you decide to cancel before the statue of limitation passes then you lose your deposit. This is how every business operates. And when I said I had already started it doesn't just mean the model themselve, there are supplies that are needed to finish these projects therefore going out and gathering supplies and paying for them is starting on the project financially. Hence what a deposit is for.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Doesn't matter. At that point I had the stuff in my hand ready to start. Regardless a project was started and a deposit was left. A deposit is a non refundable payment. If you decide to cancel before the statue of limitation passes then you lose your deposit. This is how every business operates. And when I said I had already started it doesn't just mean the model themselve, there are supplies that are needed to finish these projects therefore going out and gathering supplies and paying for them is starting on the project financially. Hence what a deposit is for, so you don't go and spend all your time. And money doing something for someone to cancel shortly after.
I call shenanigans and here is why.
When I do a commission (rare these days as I want to work on my own stuff).
1. A deposit to used to secure a spot in the que or to show a customer is serious before embarking on the time it takes to get the project done.
2. I send pics of progress (before being asked repeatedly) This ensures the customer knows what's going on and what the status of the project is.
3. If I am going to be late on a delivery date I KNOW THIS WELL BEFORE HAND and communicate it to the customer (see a theme here?)
Also.... if you are not buying the models for a customer, what supplies are you needing? How on earth do you not have enough paint, brushes, basing material etc on hand? These are the tools of your trade for God's Sake. Unless someone wants a specific scenic base from Scibor or some such this argument holds no water.
Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote: Doesn't matter. At that point I had the stuff in my hand ready to start. Regardless a project was started and a deposit was left. A deposit is a non refundable payment. If you decide to cancel before the statue of limitation passes then you lose your deposit. This is how every business operates. And when I said I had already started it doesn't just mean the model themselve, there are supplies that are needed to finish these projects therefore going out and gathering supplies and paying for them is starting on the project financially. Hence what a deposit is for, so you don't go and spend all your time. And money doing something for someone to cancel shortly after.
Is it just me or is there a club where these guys get together to make up excuses why work isn't done or miniatures and money aren't returned?
Every single time I see one of these threads, it always seems like the same MO that gets followed, no matter the painting "service".
18.000 
3.500 
8.200 
3.300 
2.400 
3.100 
5.500 
2.500 
3.200 
3.000
