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You who have product with this studio, you have been very patient, more so than I believed to be humanly possible. But I would be remiss if I didn't remind you of something.

If someone holds product/money of yours, and has been delaying it for a long time, then claims "oh no I totes talked to the police and they said don't worry", ignore them. Ignore them and go to the police. He'll post in response to this, "oh no officer X said Y so ignore that guy". Do not listen to this. Please follow through in the manner which is the most likely to end with you getting your product back which is, sadly, legal paths.

Best of luck to you all, hopefully the coppers can just pay him a visit and he'll get scared straight and do what is right. If not then keep on the police to follow up. As has been seen several times, they often do not seem to take this seriously. Underline the monetary value, do not mention sentimentality or anything, focus on the fact this studio is holding hundreds/thousands of dollars of different people's product, contracts that were written, dates the work was promised by, etc. And keep on them. Best of luck, and for your sakes do ignore his reply to this urging you that he "totes talked to the coppers and its all g".

And research the number you are going to call yourselves. Again, if someone has broken your trust repeatedly, don't trust them when they are 'helping' you contact the police.

....

....

So all your 'proof' just disappeared in a flurry of edits. Shocking.

....

Your 'court document proof' and 'police number' proof. That would be interesting to have for posterity.

....

Thanks for the replies 'battlegrounds', it's been very educational.

Just remember and cling to that notion that no matter how many people's cash you hang onto, no matter who's property you hold, whatever inabilities to maintain email correspondence with your purported customers, always, always maintain that fault lies elsewhere, events, people and especially victim blaming. Hold on tight to that ego, that youthful defiance that you have the right to decide where and when and how you will grant people either their money back or the miniatures you've been sitting on, for as long as you see fit.

So pop a few more winky faces on things, deride those people who criticize you for your business 'skillz', because noone here really gets you, you're special, you're the magic man, you get to decide when you work your 'art', not these plebs, or those 'customers' who think they have some form of deal with you involving their money and possessions.

They just don't get you man.



















oh yeah, nearly forgot.

This is absolutely painful to watch.

And it makes me feel a lot better about the job I lost last year, due to being unable to fulfill contracts (technically only one went unfilled, and there is a suit against the doctor responsible for causing the condition that prevented me from filling it).

At least I did not try to continue taking on new contracts, and I did finish everything (eventually - save for the one piece - cost me $100K in income over the next two years... Thus the suit)

And, I had a visible presence in the studio owned by my former boss, who knew what was happening (He's pissed off about it, but understands that I got utterly screwed by a doctor - who is still screwing me, and thus I cannot take new work; only work on spec). So at least I DI not have to make excuses. He saw me every day that I did not have to travel to Califonia to see that F***ING Doctor.

I used to paint for commission back in the 1980's, long before the Internet allowed people to make it a growing concern (you can see some of my work on the cover-art for Steve Jackson's Games OGRE/GEV miniatures). And I regularly saw commission painters in the gaming industry who tended to flake (This used to be the rule, rather than the exception - of course I don't know about now).

But this guy is either:

• In Way over his head.
• Unable to understand the issues involved (and thus the defensiveness). This is pretty common with people trying to run their first business.
• Legitimately dishonest.

Which is sad. But the gaming industry is filled to overflowing with people who plan bigger than they are capable of delivering, and then get defensive about not being able to deliver.

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Battlegrounds Wargaming wrote:
@majortom Im required by law to send one email a month. Or else it voids my contract. Meaning that a cancelled projects deposit does not get refunded unless I don't contact in 30 days. I've contacted each one of these guys multiple times this month through Fb, email and text. My legal obligation is met. the only illegal thing I can do on this situation is say they can't have their models which isn't the case. I've openly said many times they can have them but they want them painted. When all is said and done a small claims matter won't refund the deposit amount as the definition of a deposit is a non refundable amount, unless I break that 30 days. If I went longer then 30 days in the past it doesn't matter after I've contacted them again and they havent filed a lawsuit yet. That 30 dayso of darkness was about 200 emails ago. Anyone can have their things back just email me and stop telling me to continue painting them. Telling get me you want them to be continued means you don't want then sent yet.

You have that totally wrong.

I have worked as an Architectural Sculptor for over a dozen years. Our contracts are generally in the four to six figures for any job. And we have this lawyer who is employed by the company who answers little questions about this like when or where a deposit is refundable, and what must be done in order to make it non-refundable, or even What the definition of a "deposit" is to begin with.

A Deposit is simply an amount paid, depending upon the contract, to insure that Work will be begun and that the contractor has sufficient capital to begin a job.

But a deposit MUST BE RETURNED if the contract is void for any reason.

If you have posted somewhere PRIOR TO ACCEPTING A CONTRACT, or if it is included in a signed contract that All deposits are non-refundable THEN you may keep the deposits.

But it is NOT "The definition of a Deposit."

You can probably expect people to be climbing all over the Wayback Machine to look for older copies of your website to see if you listed the fact that Deposits are not refundable.

If you placed this on your website originally, then you are in the clear.

But if you try to add it post facto, then you will be guilty of Fraud by Malice (something I am currently suing someone for), and you will be liable for Treble Damages in any court (so expect people to not want to settle out of court with you if this is the case).

I have no horse in this race. I am simply stating facts about the law, and about reality. And that if you do not wish your life to be ruined by having a multi-million dollar settlement for fraud against you, I would seriously think about trying to stop making excuses (because this is how you are coming off), and to stop painting until you have fixed everything where people are still registering complaints.

MB



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also whether you continue to communicate with contractees "every thirty days" is also irrelevant if you establish a "continuing pattern of Wilful misconduct, or deceit."

Where you are getting your legal advice is an mystery, because wherever it is coming from, it sounds made-up.

There are a couple of lawyers on Dakka who will probably be along momentarily to correct your misconceptions.

The law has things for minor contracts called "A Reasonable Expectation." This can be defined in a variety of ways, but simply remaining in contact every thirty days does not maintain a "reasonable expectation."

This is sort of like claiming, after being given a $100,000 automobile to restore, and then either not doing anything to restore the automobile or restoring it, but having no intention of returning it; rather keeping it, and then emailing the owner every month with a message "Oh! I am still working on the car! Don't worry.... " for the next ten years.

It doesn't work that way.

After some period of time, you are considered to be guilty of fraud by deception, or simply theft by deception.

If you conducted any of this deception by mail, then you also have mail fraud to worry about, and possibly wire fraud as well.

You are positively burying yourself here, on the Internet, which is forever and never goes away.

MB

....

And I for one certainly take the edits/deletions to all your posts as the clear marks of an honest and upfront guy.

Unfortunately I have been at work all day and only recently had the chance to see what has been happening on this thread. Since I am the one that started this I suppose I need to weigh in.

First things first, I have been in contact with Sean on all the issues that have been revealed on this forum and have offered to help him through a process of making good on all agreements with customers. That being the case I would like for all customers who feel they have been shorted by BGW to PM me and let me know their own situation and allow all of us to come up with a way to repair the damage done. I only need to know what was promised, what was paid, and what is owed at this point. I know for a lot of patrons of BGW this may seem impossible, but I would disagree. As I have told Sean in other communication I am putting my reputation on this forum on the line to help with this situation. The first time I hear of any crap being pulled that has happened in the past, ie lack of communication, arguing with customers or non-customers, or anything of the like I will drop this and let him drown himself. In the end we all have a very simple choice, we can continue this ranting and accomplish nothing, or try to work out some sort of an accord. I personally would rather see the work I paid for finished than give it all up for the very minor and temporary satisfaction of seeing someone fail.

As to those non BGW customers who have posted on this forum, your opinions are welcome here, however I am not looking for any PMs from you at this time. I do not believe there is anything to be said in a private message that helps this situation.

I want to make one thing very clear, I am not here to justify or excuse the actions of this business up to this point. There is no justification or reason that would excuse the behavior to now. But if those on this forum are going to bolster us all as a community then you cannot ostracize someone until they have been vetted. I am very well aware that there are people who have entered into this community with the intentions taking advantage of its members, and maybe this situation is one. However, while I believe I have as much right as anyone here, if not more, to wash my hands and be done with this and see this company go out of business and its owner fail, I see no gain in it for me or the community as a whole.

As I have said from the beginning I believe this is a situation of a person taking on more than they could handle, and instead of stepping back and trying to look for the best option to satisfy the promises made while also growing a business, he instead let the snowball keep rolling until he was buried too deep to get out. I will also be the first to say the customer service from this company has been nothing short of a joke. None of these issues are beyond fixing.

Each of the customers here were made a promise that was broken. Sean has been informed by me that to make any type of recompense will be arduous. My opinion is if he is willing to do the work that needs to be done to accomplish this he should at least be given the chance to do so. I will be happy to find ways for BGW to fulfill its promises to those members of this community that entered into agreements with it. I believe there are ways to do this, as long as all parties are willing to try.

Edit:
I have given Sean the advice to remove all posts made in this thread.

mbutler132000 wrote:
Unfortunately I have been at work all day and only recently had the chance to see what has been happening on this thread. Since I am the one that started this I suppose I need to weigh in.

First things first, I have been in contact with Sean on all the issues that have been revealed on this forum and have offered to help him through a process of making good on all agreements with customers. That being the case I would like for all customers who feel they have been shorted by BGW to PM me and let me know their own situation and allow all of us to come up with a way to repair the damage done. I only need to know what was promised, what was paid, and what is owed at this point. I know for a lot of patrons of BGW this may seem impossible, but I would disagree. As I have told Sean in other communication I am putting my reputation on this forum on the line to help with this situation. The first time I hear of any crap being pulled that has happened in the past, ie lack of communication, arguing with customers or non-customers, or anything of the like I will drop this and let him drown himself. In the end we all have a very simple choice, we can continue this ranting and accomplish nothing, or try to work out some sort of an accord. I personally would rather see the work I paid for finished than give it all up for the very minor and temporary satisfaction of seeing someone fail.

As to those non BGW customers who have posted on this forum, your opinions are welcome here, however I am not looking for any PMs from you at this time. I do not believe there is anything to be said in a private message that helps this situation.

I want to make one thing very clear, I am not here to justify or excuse the actions of this business up to this point. There is no justification or reason that would excuse the behavior to now. But if those on this forum are going to bolster us all as a community then you cannot ostracize someone until they have been vetted. I am very well aware that there are people who have entered into this community with the intentions taking advantage of its members, and maybe this situation is one. However, while I believe I have as much right as anyone here, if not more, to wash my hands and be done with this and see this company go out of business and its owner fail, I see no gain in it for me or the community as a whole.

As I have said from the beginning I believe this is a situation of a person taking on more than they could handle, and instead of stepping back and trying to look for the best option to satisfy the promises made while also growing a business, he instead let the snowball keep rolling until he was buried too deep to get out. I will also be the first to say the customer service from this company has been nothing short of a joke. None of these issues are beyond fixing.

Each of the customers here were made a promise that was broken. Sean has been informed by me that to make any type of recompense will be arduous. My opinion is if he is willing to do the work that needs to be done to accomplish this he should at least be given the chance to do so. I will be happy to find ways for BGW to fulfill its promises to those members of this community that entered into agreements with it. I believe there are ways to do this, as long as all parties are willing to try.

Edit:
I have given Sean the advice to remove all posts made in this thread.

Well he promised to ship my stuff out tonight, and he didn't theres that.

Or... You know you could call the police and the ontario consumer protection agency and bypass the circus act. It is classic behaviour in this very familiar situation to recruit a community proxy and the go into hiding, letting said mislead but altruistic person take the heat.

This whole thing is very much starting to remind me of a particularly notorious person with the initials DM... Seriously, the inability to process the responsibility, the assertation that they only reason they would need to make right is their own superior morals, the excuses and blackouts in comms, the sudden reappearance in public threads, the assertations the police high fived them and said no problem bro carry on, the daring to do something followed by quick promises broken even more quickly, pm's with sob stories explaining how they are just unlucky or badly done to, nothing left to lose im the real victim of life stuff... The proxy and deleting of posts to obscure the facts and admissions and expectation the content will just be forgotten...

Copycat?

Whatever the intentions are, the actual results dont seem to reflect the statements for a considerable amount of time now. Protect yourselves and your rights, dont count on anyone else to do it for you, and place your trust based on actions, not words.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Or... You know you could call the police and the ontario consumer protection agency and bypass the circus act. It is classic behaviour in this very familiar situation to recruit a community proxy and the go into hiding, letting said mislead but altruistic person take the heat.

This whole thing is very much starting to remind me of a particularly notorious person with the initials DM... Seriously, the inability to process the responsibility, the assertation that they only reason they would need to make right is their own superior morals, the excuses and blackouts in comms, the sudden reappearance in public threads, the assertations the police high fived them and said no problem bro carry on, the daring to do something followed by quick promises broken even more quickly, pm's with sob stories explaining how they are just unlucky or badly done to, nothing left to lose im the real victim of life stuff... The proxy and deleting of posts to obscure the facts and admissions and expectation the content will just be forgotten...

Copycat?

Whatever the intentions are, the actual results dont seem to reflect the statements for a considerable amount of time now. Protect yourselves and your rights, dont count on anyone else to do it for you, and place your trust based on actions, not words.

r

Yep. Yep....

MB

I've had a picture sent to me both over FB and one was posted on here. I'm willing to trust him to get the work done, if he was planning to flog my items surely he would've done already?

 curran12 wrote:
You realize that claiming bankruptcy does not excuse your debts, right? It isn't a get out of debt free card. It simply means that banks are going to get involved in sorting out your debts and finances.

I have yet to receive any tracking info,, not surprising.

twinner wrote:
I have yet to receive any tracking info,, not surprising.

I would just write it off as a lesson learned. Iam sure at this point your not going to get your stuff back

Instagram's had some more pics be put up of a Tau suit.

Someone really needs to quote everything he says from now on, assuming he says anything anymore. I'm unfamiliar with US/CA law but what is the statue of limitations on this? It's been a year.

I have a post quoting anything he had said up to that point.
He started insisting that he was being very contrite and sorry about the whole affair, and how he had expressed that in his posts.
I called him out on that.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/150/588274.page#7780780




....

Just wondering if anyone has heard from this place lately. I received a message a week ago my stuff was being started on and nothing since then. Tried sending multiple messages but no response so far.

Hang on weren't you the feller that was helping him sort things out?

I was trying to. Unfortunately it appears I am not able to. I can only help if he does the work needed.

Hey fellas.

I've kept up with this thread just because BGW is actually VERY close to my house. It's so close that it shows up on all my local searches on Kijiji classifieds for people selling their Warhammer cheap.

This scumbag still makes ads regularly advertising all kinds of free goodies with their commissions. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if some of your stuff is just being given away to local customers who bring him cash.

Latest ad was from 14 days ago exactly. I just want to remind you guys that it's still active, and his ninja edits to disappear from this site were made well BEFORE the posting of the below ad - implying he's still at it, just keeping a low profile . . . :

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-hobbies-craft/city-of-toronto/battlegrounds-wargaming-painting-modeling-studio/1070032042?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Every now and then a new version of it pops up, but it's the same person(s) as the contact info is always the same. I just didn't mention it until now because he seemed to be active here anyway and didn't want to stir the pot.

This makes me sick.

While we may have strong emotions about a topic, or just mild distaste for someone's behaviour, unless we are posting something constructive lets not post in a thread like this. Better to keep it to what is necessary/helpful.

Thanks guys

Is it any wonder this guy is losing money giving 10% of his money to charity everytime? Mental.

Regarding the charity, take it with a grain of salt. All of his 'donations' are still 'pending': http://www.battlegrounds-wargaming.com/donation-history

I'm not saying the donations haven't been made, or that they won't be made, I'm just saying that Sean has made lots of claims and promises to me that were never fulfilled or flat out lies.