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 Monkey Tamer wrote:

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
It's official, from GW themselves, Specialist Games was revived earlier this year and the initial products are already well under development, so far Blood Bowl confirmed... rumors of a new, 15mm Epic have been running around, and finally BFG seems like a pretty solid bet. I could just as easily say that they could be absolutely fekking amazing as you could that they will be terrible at this point, no evidence. Chances are though, from the way they have been describing it and the stated intentions they have, I don't think they will stray too far from the previous for games like bloodbowl. I think that will be a pretty safe bet -

180 for 280 worth of stuff is exactly what I was mentioning earlier, I understand they can't just drop the MSRP on individual kits for various business reasons, but offering volume bundles is a great, key way for them to get back in the game imho.

So Blood Bowl was confirmed then.I knew that there was a picture of it, but was not sure if it was a rumor or not. I am sorry to be so skeptical, but do you have links for the other stuff? Would be interested to seem the revive Necromunda and Mordheim.


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 Monkey Tamer wrote:

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

 SonOfSigvald wrote:
GW has really turned it around in my opinion.

• Bringing back specialty games
• Licencing out tons of video games for GW (some are bad, but still so many options now) such as: Mordheim: City of the damned, Total War: Warhammer, BFG, Blood bowl and now Dawn of War 3
• The PRICES. Using The Flesh Eater Courts for AoS as an example: $180 USD for $280 USD of stuff. It's GREAT value.
• Free rules and community feedback
• Social media presence
• Free painting videos
• Outreach, support and conventions
• Everything moving to plastic (no new finecast sculpts)

Seriously. What a change from just 2 years ago. Bravo GW.

Can you confirm the specialist games? Personally I would like to get into those, since AoS was a big disappointment to me and 40k (with AoS as well) has a high upkeep and buy-in cost that I am not too comfortable with right now when I feel I get more out of a purchase of the competitions' product.

You can currently get Deathwatch Overkill and Betrayal at Calth. Blood Bowl is confirmed and has a facebook page with pictures of upcoming minis.

Since I have been out of the loop of this for a while, are they independent board games or true tabletop games?

I mean I really like the models, and I might use them if they open up to Kill team or so.

I'm not sure what the distinction is you are getting at. They have rules to be played by themselves with the included miniatures, and those miniatures from what I understand can be used in 40K. Not sure if it's like Space Hulk, where you have to put the Terminators on the appropriate bases for 40K and remove them for playing Space Hulk.

It was kind of two-fold: If the game was standalone game and/or the models can be used for other games. Since it seems to be the case that both of those seem to yes, that seems to be the case.

Yea, I can't give GW credit for specialist games returning until they actual return. Betrayal at Calth is a stand alone board game, while cool, isn't a specialist game.

It funny maybe, but I'll give credit when they do it and not just say they will do it. Ever been promised something by someone and then they didn't deliver?

I think the simple fact that they are producing games again, shows that they are not just Citadel Miniatures, but Games Workshop as well.

I've written off Dakka for a few reasons, but the prime reason of disinterest has always been due to GW taking the mick. Without GW being a game company, there is little reason to contribute here.

Space Hulk was a step in the right direction, even if its release was only so the trademark and such didn't fall away from disuse.

Now that Warhammer Quest is being released, I thoughti would see what the fuss was about on boardgamegeek.

I no longer care for their lifestyle systems. 40k and WHFB and LotR. Lots of great memories there, but I have better things to do with my life than to dedicate a significant portion to modelling, painting and money and ultimately feel as I have wasted my time when I can play boardgames and have even more fulfilling enjoyment with them.

So in that regard, GW are killing it. Slam Dunk. I could care less about the 40k boardgames as they don't offer what I seek for the price paid. I have no cross tied need to use them in 40k for example so their existence is irrelevant.

But warhams questis quite good, and the only drawback for me is the GW tax they still require. But even then, at least tbey are attempting to realize that my demographic simply refuses to pay $40 for a model any more and are trying to meet us in the middle.with a cheaper character expansion for WHQ.

Baby steps, but in the right direction.

I'll second Pacific's closing sentence on the first page of this thread. A "C". But showing improvement.

I couldn't post this in news and rumours as it would have been OT, but here's the question about GW I wanted to ask:

Is releasing all these new board games/stand alone games, a good idea?

I ask, because for months now, we've heard about GW's financial problems, so when you're creating 3 new games, with 3 completely different sets of models, and all the design costs that go into that (new moulds etc etc etc )

surely that's going to pile on more costs ands thus lose more money?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I couldn't post this in news and rumours as it would have been OT, but here's the question about GW I wanted to ask:

Is releasing all these new board games/stand alone games, a good idea?

I ask, because for months now, we've heard about GW's financial problems, so when you're creating 3 new games, with 3 completely different sets of models, and all the design costs that go into that (new moulds etc etc etc )

surely that's going to pile on more costs ands thus lose more money?

Not really. For one thing, there is a big audience for these games; people are buying Silver Tower or bought Deathwatch: Overkill who play neither AoS nor 40k, the board games give them a way in which a) makes more than just selling to established players and b) sells more if/when said newcomers buy into the bigger games (I'm sure a lot of people started a Nid force to go with the DW:OK Stealer Cult, or will add some more Demons to the Tzneetchian forces in ST). The moulds/design cost is no higher than whatever 'main game' product they'd be releasing that week anyway, perhaps even lower as they're less complicated figured and duplicated.

I think it's a great idea. There's both the captive audience ready and waiting (especially when the likes of Blood Bowl and Necromunda return in the coming years) and a large potential audience that might be familiar with the setting (particularly with the likes of Total War: Warhammer and Dawn of War coming out) for whom the board games are a great way to get started. The only 'extra' costs are things like the game tiles or any custom dice, which will be a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of a plastic mould anyway.

There's also the fact that this is something the customers want, and have wanted for a long time. For years, when the limited Space Hulk releases were the closest GW got to spin-off, self contained board games, people clamoured for more in the same vein, so it's entirely possible that GW are in fact taking notice of this (from both a business perspective, as people are queuing up to buy such releases, and from a 'giving a damn about the customers' PoV).

Not really.

GW spend about 20-25% of their revenue on product, i doubt this is going to significantly swing as they're not exactly releasing more product so much as different product.

My own reservation would be whether, considering GW's main corporate priority must be to return to increasing turnover and profit YOY once more, the new releases are expanding the sales are simp,y cannibalizing them.

Still, end of year report is due soon, so we'll at least have a better idea then.

 Paradigm wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I couldn't post this in news and rumours as it would have been OT, but here's the question about GW I wanted to ask:

Is releasing all these new board games/stand alone games, a good idea?

I ask, because for months now, we've heard about GW's financial problems, so when you're creating 3 new games, with 3 completely different sets of models, and all the design costs that go into that (new moulds etc etc etc )

surely that's going to pile on more costs ands thus lose more money?

Not really. For one thing, there is a big audience for these games; people are buying Silver Tower or bought Deathwatch: Overkill who play neither AoS nor 40k, the board games give them a way in which a) makes more than just selling to established players and b) sells more if/when said newcomers buy into the bigger games (I'm sure a lot of people started a Nid force to go with the DW:OK Stealer Cult, or will add some more Demons to the Tzneetchian forces in ST). The moulds/design cost is no higher than whatever 'main game' product they'd be releasing that week anyway, perhaps even lower as they're less complicated figured and duplicated.

I think it's a great idea. There's both the captive audience ready and waiting (especially when the likes of Blood Bowl and Necromunda return in the coming years) and a large potential audience that might be familiar with the setting (particularly with the likes of Total War: Warhammer and Dawn of War coming out) for whom the board games are a great way to get started. The only 'extra' costs are things like the game tiles or any custom dice, which will be a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of a plastic mould anyway.

There's also the fact that this is something the customers want, and have wanted for a long time. For years, when the limited Space Hulk releases were the closest GW got to spin-off, self contained board games, people clamoured for more in the same vein, so it's entirely possible that GW are in fact taking notice of this (from both a business perspective, as people are queuing up to buy such releases, and from a 'giving a damn about the customers' PoV).

Some good points there, but you're forgetting that Dreadfleet sunk beneath the waves (but I still made a ton of cash ) so a few bad sales here and there might put GW off this approach.

Price for example, could be a factor. Silver Tower has some beautiful models, but £95


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 Azreal13 wrote:
Not really.

GW spend about 20-25% of their revenue on product, i doubt this is going to significantly swing as they're not exactly releasing more product so much as different product.

My own reservation would be whether, considering GW's main corporate priority must be to return to increasing turnover and profit YOY once more, the new releases are expanding the sales are simp,y cannibalizing them.

Still, end of year report is due soon, so we'll at least have a better idea then.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what dakka's number crunchers can make of that end of year report. My money's on most of the profits going to fund Kirby's pension

Possibly but what seems pretty clear is that board games are going through kind of a renaissance. The money is clearly in them and GW jumping on that bandwagon is very much a good thing.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Spoiler:

 Paradigm wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I couldn't post this in news and rumours as it would have been OT, but here's the question about GW I wanted to ask:

Is releasing all these new board games/stand alone games, a good idea?

I ask, because for months now, we've heard about GW's financial problems, so when you're creating 3 new games, with 3 completely different sets of models, and all the design costs that go into that (new moulds etc etc etc )

surely that's going to pile on more costs ands thus lose more money?

Not really. For one thing, there is a big audience for these games; people are buying Silver Tower or bought Deathwatch: Overkill who play neither AoS nor 40k, the board games give them a way in which a) makes more than just selling to established players and b) sells more if/when said newcomers buy into the bigger games (I'm sure a lot of people started a Nid force to go with the DW:OK Stealer Cult, or will add some more Demons to the Tzneetchian forces in ST). The moulds/design cost is no higher than whatever 'main game' product they'd be releasing that week anyway, perhaps even lower as they're less complicated figured and duplicated.

I think it's a great idea. There's both the captive audience ready and waiting (especially when the likes of Blood Bowl and Necromunda return in the coming years) and a large potential audience that might be familiar with the setting (particularly with the likes of Total War: Warhammer and Dawn of War coming out) for whom the board games are a great way to get started. The only 'extra' costs are things like the game tiles or any custom dice, which will be a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of a plastic mould anyway.

There's also the fact that this is something the customers want, and have wanted for a long time. For years, when the limited Space Hulk releases were the closest GW got to spin-off, self contained board games, people clamoured for more in the same vein, so it's entirely possible that GW are in fact taking notice of this (from both a business perspective, as people are queuing up to buy such releases, and from a 'giving a damn about the customers' PoV).

Some good points there, but you're forgetting that Dreadfleet sunk beneath the waves (but I still made a ton of cash ) so a few bad sales here and there might put GW off this approach.

Price for example, could be a factor. Silver Tower has some beautiful models, but £95

But then again, if you look at equivalent products, it's not as fantasy land pricing as some of their stuff. My own easiest equivalent point of reference would be Imperial Assault by FFG, although the quality of the models isn't quite up to the HIPS Citadel models in Silver Tower, the price from Element Games right now isn't all that different. Taken as a whole, I think IA is the better package, but Silver Tower isn't as bat gak crazy as it could have been. Ditto BaC and Overkill.

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
Possibly but what seems pretty clear is that board games are going through kind of a renaissance. The money is clearly in them and GW jumping on that bandwagon is very much a good thing.

Very much this.

Not only a new renaissance, but a slow moving juggernaut. Millions are being made on kickstarter with extremely crappy games that are simply advertised well enough.
GW are opening their business back up into a much wider audience now.
If you think miniatures are all that they need to keep them afloat, then you'd be ignoring the simple fact that boardgamers out number wargamers by many multiples.

Boardgames are accessible.
Sitting down to buy, assemble, paint, learn the huge amount of rules for an army.... not so accessible.

This is why GW boardgames make such good starting pooints for their wargames.
You can still play the boardgame while you slowly paint your models. Its not some far away concept of "maybe one day, when all this gak is finished, I'll finally enjoy the fruits of my labor". They get to see results in small steps and is far less discouraging to many people.
And it doesn't exclude those who simply don't want to paint anything.

 Paradigm wrote:
there is a big audience for these games; people are buying Silver Tower or bought Deathwatch: Overkill who play neither AoS nor 40k, the board games give them a way in which a) makes more than just selling to established players and b) sells more if/when said newcomers buy into the bigger games

That's good in theory, but is it really true?

I agree that the boardgames would be a good entrypoint for new customers, (just look at how many of the veterans got started with games like Heroquest) but I wonder how well that works in practice these days, with these games.

These latest GW boargdames are a lot more expensive than the competition and while they are arguably worth that due to the amount and quality of the miniatures included, this depends on the customer having a appreciation of the minis in the first place. An existing GW customer can look at a game like Betrayal at Calth and see a massive discount compared to getting the equivalent models from FW. For a newcomer that might look different.

Are there really a large amount of customes buying these games that was not already customers of GW products? I have no idea of how we could research that but in my little local spot of the world, my impression is that the games are mainly bought by existing GW customers.

 Zywus wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
there is a big audience for these games; people are buying Silver Tower or bought Deathwatch: Overkill who play neither AoS nor 40k, the board games give them a way in which a) makes more than just selling to established players and b) sells more if/when said newcomers buy into the bigger games

That's good in theory, but is it really true?

I agree that the boardgames would be a good entrypoint for new customers, (just look at how many of the veterans got started with games like Heroquest) but I wonder how well that works in practice these days, with these games.

These latest GW boargdames are a lot more expensive than the competition and while they are arguably worth that due to the amount and quality of the miniatures included, this depends on the customer having a appreciation of the minis in the first place. An existing GW customer can look at a game like Betrayal at Calth and see a massive discount compared to getting the equivalent models from FW. For a newcomer that might look different.

Are there really a large amount of customes buying these games that was not already customers of GW products? I have no idea of how we could research that but in my little local spot of the world, my impression is that the games are mainly bought by existing GW customers.

They probably don't have the same market penetration that they enjoyed back in the 80's when you could find their games in Kmart or when they had partnerships with milton bradley.

But they seem to be testing those waters again. Vedros.

They have name recognition now, and anyone who plays boardgames as a hobby knows who GW is. More likely in the infamous sense now. But they are known.

And while $150 is definitely a lot of money for a boardgame, their is a niche within the demographic that slavenly buys anything up. A lot of people actually.
Good boardgames that are out of print, that many collectors think are compulsoryadditions to their collections, pay.much.more than this. The industry sees some of these secondary market prices and takes advantage of that. Which is why you see so many expensive kickstarter titles.

These customers are boardgamers, and gw is sold in game shops.

New releases are a bit weird. They're making board games that include wargaming miniatures. On the one hand, we're getting awesome quality miniatures for a board game but at a wargame price. The price can limit broad, market appeal, especially with the upcoming push by GW to have some products sold by large-scale retail outlets.

Couch CEOing here but I think they should go one way or the other if they want expand their market to include board game players. Make a board game at a board game price and a wargame at a wargame price, mixing the two limits appeal to people who are looking for a board game and don't care about a wargame.

Edit:
Look at warhammer quest and compare it to Descent; price and number of models. I've become primarily a board game player now but with a background in wargames. When I buy a board game, I want single piece models that I can paint or not paint, I don't care so much about how crisp the details are or how much detail the model has because it's a board game.

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
Possibly but what seems pretty clear is that board games are going through kind of a renaissance. The money is clearly in them and GW jumping on that bandwagon is very much a good thing.

True words, but other companies are making board games that are the equal and often superior to, anything that GW makes, so they've got stiff competition.

It's important to remember that GW's problem is falling sales, not profits. They have maintained their profits by cost-cutting and massive price increases.

There are downsides to the price strategy, and we've seen Rountree introduce cheaper price points for kits by the bundling strategy, also books are getting cheaper.

Anyway, my point is that GW can easily afford to launch a new boardgame and it be a disaster. What they can't afford is not to change their product line-up, because it's the no boardgames, high price strategy that was losing sales, and despite all the cost-cutting efficiencies in the world, if you sales keep on going down eventually you end up in the crap.

Therefore it makes all sorts of sense for GW to launch new board games. I'm not convinced their selection of games is the right mix at the right prices, but they can afford to make some mistakes for a year or two while they try out different things.