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A standardised Void Shield/Power Field/Xenos Equivalent USR that can be accessed by at least one element of each codex or faction.

An actual functional split between Anti MC and Anti Vehicle weapons, so that anti both options are the least effective in return for being more versatile.

Most of CSM, IG and 'Nids.

Specifically Stormtroopers.

Dark Eldar need to be on the same power level as Craftworld Eldar!

Land Raiders. I want to be able to put one on the table and not feel like an idiot for doing so. In addition to vehicles not being durable enough this edition, they're just too many points for the return. I'm not sure I'd use one even at a 50pt discount of the current price.

I'd hesitate at 150 honestly.

I'm kinda shaking my head here at the idea of 150-pt Land Raiders, given that a Leman Russ Demolisher is more expensive and far less survivable.

TBF, Leman Russes are over priced.
The game should really go back to how it was in 4th ed, with mostly infantry supported by some vehicles.
I would make all vehicles more expensive, but much tougher to compensate.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I'm kinda shaking my head here at the idea of 150-pt Land Raiders, given that a Leman Russ Demolisher is more expensive and far less survivable.

I wouldn't pay 150 for a Russ, either. The Wraithknight and D in general has ruined a lot of things. Of course, the land raider has always been useless junk, but the Russ has been good at some points in the game.

 Vaktathi wrote:

They're not fun to play against, don't take much skill or intelligence to play, and, most critically, often are built around playing gimmicks with rules that really were never intended to be able to make the units that are possible.

This is I think absolutely right. The game is not intended to be played with deathstars; they an accidental product of inattentive game design, created primarily by lack of attention to how rules interact with each other.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
TBF, Leman Russes are over priced.
The game should really go back to how it was in 4th ed, with mostly infantry supported by some vehicles.
I would make all vehicles more expensive, but much tougher to compensate.

I think if you had a list of bullet points stating what is wrong with 40k currently, say vehicles are OP would not be one of them. Vehicle strong lists actually need to be made competitive tbh.

Vehicles are a joke, especially compared to the almighty MC.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
TBF, Leman Russes are over priced.
The game should really go back to how it was in 4th ed, with mostly infantry supported by some vehicles.
I would make all vehicles more expensive, but much tougher to compensate.

4th edition was horrid for Vehicles. You either had nobody in transports because they could instantly die along with the entire passenger crew, or you were Tau and Eldar Fish of Fury and Falconspam respectively.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
TBF, Leman Russes are over priced.
The game should really go back to how it was in 4th ed, with mostly infantry supported by some vehicles.
I would make all vehicles more expensive, but much tougher to compensate.

4th edition was horrid for Vehicles. You either had nobody in transports because they could instantly die along with the entire passenger crew, or you were Tau and Eldar Fish of Fury and Falconspam respectively.

4th was fine. Tanks were fine.

I didn't play it, but it doesn't sound fine.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
TBF, Leman Russes are over priced.
The game should really go back to how it was in 4th ed, with mostly infantry supported by some vehicles.
I would make all vehicles more expensive, but much tougher to compensate.

4th edition was horrid for Vehicles. You either had nobody in transports because they could instantly die along with the entire passenger crew, or you were Tau and Eldar Fish of Fury and Falconspam respectively.

4th was fine. Tanks were fine.

As long as they were skimmers, sure. Otherwise they had about the same lifespan they do now but with a lot more stunlocking and were totally worthless as transports to boot, also they couldnt benefit from saves of any kind.

Right now, Skimmers are worthless. It's unbelievably stupid how Skimmers get assaulted. WTF?

Skimmers are great. You're crazy. Fast is $$, as is jink.

You're thinking Flyers.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Right now, Skimmers are worthless. It's unbelievably stupid how Skimmers get assaulted. WTF?

skimmers are in a great place right now, at least next to tracked tanks. On demand Jink keeps them viable next to tracked or walker counterparts.

Vehicle assault in general are rather absurdly easy, its not an issue confined to skimmers, and Skimmers arent flying vehicles either, they operate low enough that infantry can embark and disembark without issue. Older editions gave Skimmers wayyyyy too much damage mitigation.

And I say that as someone who owns probably ~20 skimmer tanks of various sorts

Make Kroot glorious again. +1 Str and +1 Attack and drop them a point per model.

Lately, the only vehicle assault I have is with my IKT. He's S(D) AP2 and he Stomps.

And isnt autohit on rear armor...on 3's

IKTs are still walkers in CC. Front armor all the time, baby!

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
TBF, Leman Russes are over priced.
The game should really go back to how it was in 4th ed, with mostly infantry supported by some vehicles.
I would make all vehicles more expensive, but much tougher to compensate.

4th edition was horrid for Vehicles. You either had nobody in transports because they could instantly die along with the entire passenger crew, or you were Tau and Eldar Fish of Fury and Falconspam respectively.

Yeah, they were pretty fragile in 4th. But at least they were usable. They are even worse now.
I probably wasn't very clear, but I meant to say that I would make it like how it was in 4th ed, but with tougher vehicles. Like a cross between 4th and 5ed, but without necrons getting shafted, and no Grey Knight shanigans.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Right now, Skimmers are worthless. It's unbelievably stupid how Skimmers get assaulted. WTF?

Is it 6 to hit skimmers in CC? Or am I thinking of 4th ed again?
I think the idea is that the skimmer isn't supposed to be flying, but hovering a few feet off the ground. Granted, the artwork does show skimmers flying, so that's a contradiction there.
Now that I think of it, I would merge the rules for flyers and skimmers. Because a flyer atm is just a glorified, slightly faster skimmer with some extra gimmicks.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:




Is it 6 to hit skimmers in CC? Or am I thinking of 4th ed again?
I think the idea is that the skimmer isn't supposed to be flying, but hovering a few feet off the ground. Granted, the artwork does show skimmers flying, so that's a contradiction there.

4E had skimmers being hit only on 6's.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
IKTs are still walkers in CC. Front armor all the time, baby!

Aye, and that 13 on the front makes a world of difference.

Oh right, this is a buff thread.
Make Monoliths great again.
I want to be able to deep strike, deploy squads on arrival and resist melta, as they were intended to be used.

 Vaktathi wrote:
4E had skimmers being hit only on 6's.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
IKTs are still walkers in CC. Front armor all the time, baby!

Aye, and that 13 on the front makes a world of difference.

And that is why 4E vehicle rules would be acceptable. Skimmers should only be hit on 6s. I could see 5+ if they Embarked or Disembarked or Hovered during the movement phase. Regardless, Skimmers would only be hit on the Side, not the Rear, because they expect to take fire from below, whereas Tanks don't expect to be attacked from above.

Yes it does! Big time!

In other words, buff Craftworld Eldar even more.

No thanks.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:




And that is why 4E vehicle rules would be acceptable. Skimmers should only be hit on 6s. I could see 5+ if they Embarked or Disembarked or Hovered during the movement phase. Regardless, Skimmers would only be hit on the Side, not the Rear, because they expect to take fire from below, whereas Tanks don't expect to be attacked from above.

I guess I just don't see why they should only be hit on 6's, they're not flying ultra high, and the undercarriage of a skimmer shouldn't be any less vulnerable than "rear" on anything else, probably moreso looking at most of my skimmer models (particularly those Eldar ones), and it's certainly hard to see a good game balance reason for such. I could live with it if there was a meaningful cost difference between skimmers and non-skimmers, but there really isn't and never has been.

The 4E rules were especially egregious. Skimmers that moved 6" a turn couldn't be penetrated, only glanced. Penetrating hits killed on a 4+ and also forced a disembark automatically and a pinning test for transports, while penetrating explodes or Annihilated results would cause heavy damage or total annihilation of passengers (that Skimmers were, again, immune to). Skimmers were only ever hit on 6's in CC regardless of if it moved or not (while a non-skimmer was auto-hit if it didn't move), and almost all Skimmers were Fast or could fire as if they were Fast so they all always moved at that 6" (and could simply always declared they moved 6" and end up back in the same spot). Their supposed downside was that they were killed if they were Immobilized and had moved over 6", but then the only race that had to deal with that was Dark Eldar because Eldar and Tau all had wargear to negate that drawback. All that on top of getting to ignore terrain while moving. Tracked tanks and walkers had zero advantages to counterbalance that.

Skimmer bonuses always felt like "well they just get to be better just because", rather than some rational tradeoff of mobility versus durability with tracked tanks. Comparing vehicles with similar stats, roles, and costs between the two types, it's hard to see where Skimmers need such bonuses over their tracked counterparts.

The problem with necrons is the same one trollbloods had in Hordes, a hot set of dice could make the game completely unfun for an opponent. It's not a balance problem per se, because everything returns to the mean eventually, it's that the lumpy nature of RNG will make for occasional lousy experiences. Privateer press fixed it by making their FnP equivalent once a round per model.

The solution in 40k is similar, Make repair protocol/feel no pain once per wound per round (so a three wound model can make three a round), It's a slight nerf, but necrons are in a good position to take it, as are the death stars that use FnP as another layer of defense. Maybe then Eldar players could stop complaining about fighting necrons, because the board has a limited budget for irony that has been mostly eaten up by eldar players complaining about balance and autopilot armies.