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tneva82 wrote:

 BloodGrin wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 General Kroll wrote:


Boxes of Eldar models on the shelf are far more recognisable than boxes of Aeldari

Nah. GW doesn't compete in crowded shelf spaces. You either know what the product is about, or you're drawn to fancy looking miniatures. In either case, the name on the box means little.

Aledari is likely easier to trademark than Eldar, given GW uses the terms in a bunch of different media.

But that's it. They limit their products to those who know your system already. Ie old customers. That's not particularly good way to attract new customers...

They don't gain sales by renaming. They lose them.

No, because new customers do not care if they are called Eldar, Aeldari, Pointy Pointy Fru Fru, Space Elves, or anything else...they will say "These look cool!"

New customer looking for orc equilavents is less likely to know to google up "orruk" than "orc". Somebody looking for space elves is not exactly going to type "aeldar" just for fun of it.

GW doesn't gain new customers with this. At most loses. Top of that doesn't even hurt 3rd party suppliers one bit. Only way GW can fight those is provide better bang for the buck. Instead they think name changes are going to fix it.

Okay, at this point I think we are derailing the thread.

Plus I somehow doubt people will look on google for eldar either if they want space elves. Same goes for the orruk bit. Seriously these arguments are about as baseless as they come.

Except new customers tend to walk in through the door - that's the whole reason GW have stores, and why areas with stores tend to sell more and have larger communities. It's how GW and the industry at large expands their customer base.

Name changes aren't there to stop 3rd Party manufacturers. Nothing can stop that. But, name changes do stop chancers like Chapterhouse confusing would-be customers by using allegedly copyrighted terms, which the theory goes gives their works an unwarranted air of legitimacy.

I mean, by your rationale, because Kromlech etc don't make Space Wolf bits, but Sons of Thor bits, then they'll lose customers. Which they clearly don't - their customers are already established gamers. Same with knowing to google Orruk (or more specficially, Ironjawz or Bonesplitterz, to find specific kits for those armies.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Any chance this throws IG some stuff? If not, I'm going to be a little chuffed at Guard getting stuffed (again).

what exactly did the guard get? please explain!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But, name changes do stop chancers like Chapterhouse confusing would-be customers by using allegedly copyrighted terms, .

Well, yeah... except for the part where it doesn't.

Selling your 3rd-party components as 'compatible with Games Workshop Eldar' and selling your 3rd party components as 'compatible with Games Workshop Aeleioiurdur' are legally identical.

It potentially stops people from selling them (the way Chapterhouse were originally) as 'Aeleioiurdur parts' or similar... but that was likewise on just as shaky legal ground with the generic name anyway.


The legal differentiation comes from how likely the potential buyer is to confuse it for an actual Games Workshop product, not how many vowels are in the name.

You're right, it is all in the wording - but it still gives GW a stronger case if it's using copyrighted/trademarked words.

The whole reason Chapterhouse got into troub, and others didn't, was he sailed far too close to the wind.

But anyways, I'd like to bring up my earlier point.

Aeldari, Eldar, Bobcarolgess, Pansyo'pointyears, Astarelfs, Space Elves or whatever, who gives a fig what GW decide to call them? You call them whatever you want.

I mean, this is serious mountain out of a molehill stuff people. And there's still no evidence whatsoever it's anything but an archaic term for Eldar used solely in that video.

But hey, whiners gotta whine?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You're right, it is all in the wording - but it still gives GW a stronger case if it's using copyrighted/trademarked words.

The whole reason Chapterhouse got into troub, and others didn't, was he sailed far too close to the wind.

But anyways, I'd like to bring up my earlier point.

Aeldari, Eldar, Bobcarolgess, Pansyo'pointyears, Astarelfs, Space Elves or whatever, who gives a fig what GW decide to call them? You call them whatever you want.

I mean, this is serious mountain out of a molehill stuff people. And there's still no evidence whatsoever it's anything but an archaic term for Eldar used solely in that video.

But hey, whiners gotta whine?

It really does not give them a case it is just a sign that the new legal team are blowing as much smoke up the boards ass as the last one.

As for the name not being important I think you will find it is very important as anyone who has even a passing knowledge of business/marketing.

As for your point you call yourself Mad Doc Grotsnik a GW trademark which influenced you enough to identify yourself with it. Would you have used it if it was Mad Doc Cockwomble?
Or you could look at fyreslayars and how badly they tanked.

You then go on to sling abuse at anyone who disagrees with you or feels that a random change to a fairly major part of the fluff that has existed for 25 years is annoying.

But hey white knights gotta white knight without any knowledge of the subjects there talking about.

Meanwhile, back in this thread about "the Gathering storm part II"...

SeanDrake wrote:

Or you could look at fyreslayars and how badly they tanked.

Yeah...it totally was just the name that made Fyreslayers "tank". Totally not the fact that the few kits they got were pretty damn expensive.
$40 for 5 Hearthguard?
$60 for 10 Berzerkers?
$30 for the Heroes on foot?

The only kit even remotely worth the price-tag was the Magmadroth, and only then because if you built a Runefather or Runeson there was parts to build the alternate build on foot and the Runesmither on foot as well--giving you three Heroes from one kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
Meanwhile, back in this thread about "the Gathering storm part II"...

The storm seems to have broken, in a sense...

We'll know more Soon(tm)

Do you guys think Eldars will get some type of multi-faction detachment like the imperium did in part I?

Eldrad joined the harlequins in Death Masque (and provided a multi-faction formation). CWE and Harlequins can easily have good reasons to team up (especially since it would be to fight chaos). However, it's a bit harder to include Dark Eldar…

The guy in red that appears on some art looks very dark eldary. Could it be a new special character that brings a kabal with him to fight alongside other Eldars?

I'm really hoping for a special Harlequin HQ + a big detachment, to have many more ways to bring Harlequins to the table.

The Fyreslayers price is why I have none - but what evidence is there that they tanked?

fresus wrote:
Do you guys think Eldars will get some type of multi-faction detachment like the imperium did in part I?

Eldrad joined the harlequins in Death Masque (and provided a multi-faction formation). CWE and Harlequins can easily have good reasons to team up (especially since it would be to fight chaos). However, it's a bit harder to include Dark Eldar…

The guy in red that appears on some art looks very dark eldary. Could it be a new special character that brings a kabal with him to fight alongside other Eldars?

I'm really hoping for a special Harlequin HQ + a big detachment, to have many more ways to bring Harlequins to the table.

Possibly, is the only answer anyone can give right now.

fresus wrote:
Do you guys think Eldars will get some type of multi-faction detachment like the imperium did in part I?

Eldrad joined the harlequins in Death Masque (and provided a multi-faction formation). CWE and Harlequins can easily have good reasons to team up (especially since it would be to fight chaos). However, it's a bit harder to include Dark Eldar…

The guy in red that appears on some art looks very dark eldary. Could it be a new special character that brings a kabal with him to fight alongside other Eldars?

I'm really hoping for a special Harlequin HQ + a big detachment, to have many more ways to bring Harlequins to the table.

Almost certainly.

I've always seen the various branches of Eldar as estranged family. They don't necessarily get on all that well, but will be the first to stand together against a common threat when needs be.

fresus wrote:
Do you guys think Eldars will get some type of multi-faction detachment like the imperium did in part I?

Eldrad joined the harlequins in Death Masque (and provided a multi-faction formation). CWE and Harlequins can easily have good reasons to team up (especially since it would be to fight chaos). However, it's a bit harder to include Dark Eldar…

The guy in red that appears on some art looks very dark eldary. Could it be a new special character that brings a kabal with him to fight alongside other Eldars?

I'm really hoping for a special Harlequin HQ + a big detachment, to have many more ways to bring Harlequins to the table.

Quite. I'm hoping this will be mainly focussed on DE and Harlequins, at least rules-wise. By all accounts Craftworld Elda are strong enough, so I'd like them to beef up a bit, preferably with new characters and rules, not just formations. But I suspect we won't get any changes to existing units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SeanDrake wrote:
Hmmm so Necrons and Nids are safe, orks are going to get Orruked, that leaves Tau and Chaos to get mangled.

On topicish I think a lot of confusion is caused when people say AoSing, some people mean the rules being reduced to 4 pages and the game effectively becoming equivalent to playing with green army men and going pew pew.
Other people mean a couple of decades worth of fluff which is colourful and contains as much good stuff as bad, being gutted and replaced with ultra generic bland bad 80's fanfiction full of changes that exist to TM as much as possible.

Some people mean both of these. The question is which do GW mean, off the back of the 1st book I can see why some people are concerned oh and Aeldari won't help.

Hmm, not sure people are confused that way. I think that's just what you think.

Maybe with a gathering of resources eldar jet bikes become FA and not troops. That will screw them up.

 rawne2510 wrote:
Maybe with a gathering of resources eldar jet bikes become FA and not troops. That will screw them up.

I doubt it. Worst case scenario we get reaver jetbikes in FA and the harlquein stuff in elites so we can make all jetbike armies... well, more varied all-jetbike armies.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
Maybe with a gathering of resources eldar jet bikes become FA and not troops. That will screw them up.

I doubt it. Worst case scenario we get reaver jetbikes in FA and the harlquein stuff in elites so we can make all jetbike armies... well, more varied all-jetbike armies.

They can pick/choose what stuff goes into the army list, so the potential is there for Guardian Jetbikes to be reined in.

Not being familiar with the codecies right now, was there any non-Chapter specific stuff missing or relocated in the Imperium one?

changemod wrote:

Chairman Aeon wrote:

And for people who did buy into AoS, they don't care.

Relevance?

I'm firmly in the "I hope they do AoS 40K--and all that implies." It's the only way I'll get back into 40K, or convince my friends who found the current version too overwhelming to get into.

Lets be clear though, 40K was never going to have the world blown up like Fantasy. There will still be Space Marines and there will still be space elves and a table of 40K will look pretty much the same as before. 40K sells as is, which is kinda crazy if you really think about it. It needs to be more accessible to new and returning players. It doesn't need gateways games it needs an inexpensive way to start playing this afternoon.

Your second paragraph answers your first, they don't really need you. It's the better selling line.

And uh, AoS really isn't more accessible post general's handbook. I looked into a Sylvaneth army after the general's handbook came out, and it would have cost me just as much as a 40k army of equivalent points. More, in fact, if you took the repeatability of the start collecting box out of the equation.

It was arguably more accessible when you could just throw whatever random models on the table, but at that point there was no balancing mechanism for pick up games. It only really functioned for dedicated groups who regularly played together.

But you can throw down whatever you want. GW specifically called the points 1 of the "3 Ways to play". Sure there is an argument that now using points is the de facto way to play, which is a shame, but it isn't the default way to play.
Furthermore, even if everyone decides to use points, 40K points and AoS points are not equivalents. They were designed for totally different systems, with different design principals, and so comparing point equivalent armies is not an accurate or useful guide to the game's cost or accessibility.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Not being familiar with the codecies right now, was there any non-Chapter specific stuff missing or relocated in the Imperium one?

Closest thing is the Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband, which is just a formation in Imperial Agents but an Elite in Castellans of the Imperium.

Lord Kragan wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
Maybe with a gathering of resources eldar jet bikes become FA and not troops. That will screw them up.

I doubt it. Worst case scenario we get reaver jetbikes in FA and the harlquein stuff in elites so we can make all jetbike armies... well, more varied all-jetbike armies.

If they nerfed windriders down to 1 heavy weapon in 3 again, that would actually be pretty cool to play.

 Robin5t wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
Maybe with a gathering of resources eldar jet bikes become FA and not troops. That will screw them up.

I doubt it. Worst case scenario we get reaver jetbikes in FA and the harlquein stuff in elites so we can make all jetbike armies... well, more varied all-jetbike armies.

If they nerfed windriders down to 1 heavy weapon in 3 again, that would actually be pretty cool to play.

I agree, though I do that already anyways. Just a shuriken cannon per three bikes.

 Gremore wrote:
I see Gangs of Commoragh coming out around the same time there's rumors of the Eldar becoming one faction, and I can't help but draw parallels- as if GW made a boardgame so their stock of hellions and reavers would still have a purpose after the Deldar are folded in with their more popular cousins.

Is that actually what would happen? I would have thought that any "old stock" of plastic models would just get recycled back into feedstock. It's only resin (a thermosetting plastic) which isn't easily recyclable. No need to spend expensive game development, painting and art time simply to reduce stock levels.

 Gremore wrote:
I'm sure its been expressed tenfold already, but this whole thing worries me.

I played Fantasy, I was one of those displaced by AoS, and moreover played Tomb Kings. I saw my army get rolled into the more popular cousin.

Maybe it's just by happenstance or maybe I pick badly, but my main army in 40k is Dark Eldar. I see Gangs of Commoragh coming out around the same time there's rumors of the Eldar becoming one faction, and I can't help but draw parallels- as if GW made a boardgame so their stock of hellions and reavers would still have a purpose after the Deldar are folded in with their more popular cousins.

Call it a phobia brought on from EndTimes, but I'm in serious concern mode. I need Atia or some other good rumormonger to calm me and assure me my Dark kin aren't going to just become fancy raiders for Eldar.

Not one of the reputable rumor people have said anything about Eldar being wrapped into one.
In FACT, the person who spoke to the Aeldari thing said directly that the Dark Eldar would not be Aeldari.
The ONLY people talking about Eldar being combined, are the same doom and gloom sky is falling people who choose to ignore game's workshop employees, rumor givers with solid records, developers and black library authors.

anyone see this yet? was it posted yet?

Lolf, I'd say he's being hostile to "traditionalists"... then I remember we kind off had people doing pretty much that in the thread...

so what are the Dark Eldar gonna be called? The irrelevant nuisance perhaps??

Lord Kragan wrote:
Lolf, I'd say he's being hostile to "traditionalists"... then I remember we kind off had people doing pretty much that in the thread...

so what are the Dark Eldar gonna be called? The irrelevant nuisance perhaps??

Darki Aeldari?

Daeldari probably lol

Or maybe Aeldrow

Drowlaedidarkeldari.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Daeldari probably lol

Or maybe Aeldrow

Mmm... I kind of like the latter. Most likely it will be something ridunculous, though. You know, like the first name kryptman wanted to give the tyranids (the giant spacebugs of death doesn't have a good ring, doesn't it??)

krazynadechukr wrote:
anyone see this yet? was it posted yet?

Yes, it's been POSTED, along with comments from the author.