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If they are an advanced rule, then they are breaking a basic rule.
If they are breaking a basic rule, then they will be listed in the Special Rules Section.
Again you are making this stuff up. Quit making stuff up!
This is what an advanced rule is . . .
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
This is what a special rule is . . .
Whenever a creature or weapon has an ability that breaks or bends one of the main game rules, it is represented by a special rule.
All special rules are by logical necessity advanced rules, but not all advanced rules are special rules.
Skyborne is an advanced rule but it is not a special rule.
Spoiler:
SKYBORNE
When using its jump pack (whether moving, charging or Falling Back, as we’ll discuss in a moment) a model can move over all other models and all terrain freely. However, if the model begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a Dangerous Terrain test.
Jump models cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is actually possible to place the models on top of it. If they do this, however, they treat the impassable terrain as dangerous terrain.
Let's just look at the bike unit type as an example.
The bike unit type has a number of advanced rules and a number of advanced rules that are special rules
advanced rules which are not special rules 1) ARMOURED STEED - Bike and Jetbike riders benefit from an increase to their Toughness characteristic by 1. If the Bike or Jetbike is part of the model’s standard wargear, this bonus is already included on its profile. In addition, Bikes and Jetbikes cannot Go to Ground, and cannot be Pinned.
2) MOVEMENT - Bikes and Jetbikes can move up to 12" in the Movement phase.
3) BIKES & TERRAIN - Bikes and Jetbikes are not slowed down by difficult terrain (even when charging). However, Bikes treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain instead.
4) FALL BACK MOVES - Bikes and Jetbikes move 3D6" when Falling Back, rather than 2D6".
5) SHOOTING - Each Bike or Jetbike in a unit can fire with one weapon for each rider on the Bike. Thus a Space Marine Attack Bike with a driver and passenger in sidecar can fire two weapons.
6) TURBO-BOOST - Bikes and Jetbikes cannot Run, but can make a special Turbo-boost move instead of firing in their Shooting phase. Turbo-boosting Bikes move up to 12", Turbo-boosting Jetbikes move up to 24". Controlling their Bikes at such speeds takes all the riders’ concentration and skill, however. Bikes and Jetbikes therefore cannot shoot, charge or execute any other voluntary action until the end of their turn after Turbo-boosting.
special rules which are advanced rules 1) Hammer of Wrath
2) Jink
3) Relentless
4) Very Bulky
This is the how we determine which rule is which . . .
Spoiler:
1) Basic rules are in the Core Rules section and only in the Core Rules section.
Core Rules - This section contains all the basic rules that you will need in order to command your army and fight your Warhammer 40,000 battles.
2) Advanced rules are found in any section of the BRB that is not the Core Rules section, although technically there could be a few advanced rules in the Core Rules section. We just know that all basic rules are in the Core Rules section.
Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale. These are all the rules you’ll need for infantry models.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
The rule for advanced rules calls out "bike", "character", "tank", "swarm", and "boltgun" as examples of advanced rules that apply to specific models. Those particular example advanced rules can be found in the Unit Type section (bike unit type, character rules, tank vehicle type) and the Appendix (swarm special rule, boltgun weapon profile). The Battlefield Terrain and Preparing for Battle sections in the BRB can also contain advanced rules. Basically any section of the BRB which is not the Core Rules section can contain advanced rules (although technically there may be advanced rules in the Core Rules section). The Core Rules section is for basic rules.
Advanced rules are any rules that distinguish a model as a specific model separate from the most basic infantry model using the basic rules for movement, shooting, combat, or morale.
The Army List Entry indicates what advanced rules apply. One typically finds Army List Entries in a codex but the advanced rules themselves can be found in all sections of the BRB and any 40k publication such as a Codex.
3) Special Rules are in the Special Rule section. They can also be elsewhere.
All Special Rules are Advanced Rules but not all Advanced Rules are Special Rules.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/04/22 04:07:36
If they are an advanced rule, then they are breaking a basic rule.
If they are breaking a basic rule, then they will be listed in the Special Rules Section.
Again you are making this stuff up. Quit making stuff up!
This is what an advanced rule is . . .
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
This is what a special rule is . . .
Whenever a creature or weapon has an ability that breaks or bends one of the main game rules, it is represented by a special rule.
All special rules are by logical necessity advanced rules, but not all advanced rules are special rules.
Skyborne is an advanced rule but it is not a special rule.
Spoiler:
SKYBORNE
When using its jump pack (whether moving, charging or Falling Back, as we’ll discuss in a moment) a model can move over all other models and all terrain freely. However, if the model begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a Dangerous Terrain test.
Jump models cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is actually possible to place the models on top of it. If they do this, however, they treat the impassable terrain as dangerous terrain.
This is the how we determine which rule is which . . .
Spoiler:
1) Basic rules are in the Core Rules section and only in the Core Rules section.
Core Rules - This section contains all the basic rules that you will need in order to command your army and fight your Warhammer 40,000 battles.
2) Advanced rules are found in any section of the BRB that is not the Core Rules section, although technically there could be a few advanced rules in the Core Rules section. We just know that all basic rules are in the Core Rules section.
Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale. These are all the rules you’ll need for infantry models.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
The rule for advanced rules calls out "bike", "character", "tank", "swarm", and "boltgun" as examples of advanced rules that apply to specific models. Those particular example advanced rules can be found in the Unit Type section (bike unit type, character rules, tank vehicle type) and the Appendix (swarm special rule, boltgun weapon profile). The Battlefield Terrain and Preparing for Battle sections in the BRB can also contain advanced rules. Basically any section of the BRB which is not the Core Rules section can contain advanced rules (although technically there may be advanced rules in the Core Rules section). The Core Rules section is for basic rules.
Advanced rules are any rules that distinguish a model as a specific model separate from the most basic infantry model using the basic rules for movement, shooting, combat, or morale.
The Army List Entry indicates what advanced rules apply. One typically finds Army List Entries in a codex but the advanced rules themselves can be found in all sections of the BRB and any 40k publication such as a Codex.
3) Special Rules are in the Special Rule section. They can also be elsewhere.
All Special Rules are Advanced Rules but not all Advanced Rules are Special Rules.
Dear Col, please do not get so upset.
The rules state, in the front of the book, that the bolded text is the most important statement involving any set of rules.
The bolded statement for Basic vs Advanced is this...
Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules.
According to what you have stated above, you are applying the rules for a specific model and overriding the basic rules.
You have said before that we cannot move 12" on a Calvary because we are breaking the rules.
If we are breaking the rules then we have a special rule!
It must be located in the special rules section.
Since it is not located in the special rules section it is not a special rule.
If it is not a special rule it is not an advanced rule.
As you can see the BRB defined term classify's a special rule as breaking rules
WHAT SPECIAL RULES DO I HAVE?
It may seem obvious, but unless stated otherwise, a model does not have a special rule.
Most special rules are given to a model by the relevant Army List Entry or its unit type.
And remember Col, Appendix says "Advanced Rules"
All advanced rules are in the Appendix.
Skyborne is a Basic Rule for Unit Type Jump Infantry. Bulky and Deep Strike are the Special Rules for Unit Type Jump Infantry.
Since you completely just made up everything applied to Stormrider (it being a Special Rule, LMAO). By all means let me see your interpretation of Kharn?
The rules state, in the front of the book, that the bolded text is the most important statement involving any set of rules.
The bolded statement for Basic vs Advanced is this...
Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules.
According to what you have stated above, you are applying the rules for a specific model and overriding the basic rules.
You have said before that we cannot move 12" on a Calvary because we are breaking the rules.
If we are breaking the rules then we have a special rule!
It must be located in the special rules section.
Since it is not located in the special rules section it is not a special rule.
If it is not a special rule it is not an advanced rule.
As you can see the BRB defined term classify's a special rule as breaking rules
WHAT SPECIAL RULES DO I HAVE?
It may seem obvious, but unless stated otherwise, a model does not have a special rule.
Most special rules are given to a model by the relevant Army List Entry or its unit type.
And remember Col, Appendix says "Advanced Rules"
All advanced rules are in the Appendix.
Again. You are ignoring plainly stated definitions.
This is what an advanced rule is . . .
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
This is what a special rule is . . .
Whenever a creature or weapon has an ability that breaks or bends one of the main game rules, it is represented by a special rule.
All special rules are by logical necessity advanced rules, but not all advanced rules are special rules.
Ceann wrote: All advanced rules are in the Appendix.
The Appendix splash page says this.
This section contains a collection of advanced rules, weaponry, and abilities that you can use to add variety to your Warhammer 40,000 battles.
The Appendix does not say that all advanced rules are in the Appendix.
Core Rules - This section contains all the basic rules that you will need in order to command your army and fight your Warhammer 40,000 battles.
This is the how we determine which rule is which . . .
Spoiler:
1) Basic rules are in the Core Rules section and only in the Core Rules section.
Core Rules - This section contains all the basic rules that you will need in order to command your army and fight your Warhammer 40,000 battles.
2) Advanced rules are found in any section of the BRB that is not the Core Rules section, although technically there could be a few advanced rules in the Core Rules section. We just know that all basic rules are in the Core Rules section.
Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale. These are all the rules you’ll need for infantry models.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
The rule for advanced rules calls out "bike", "character", "tank", "swarm", and "boltgun" as examples of advanced rules that apply to specific models. Those particular example advanced rules can be found in the Unit Type section (bike unit type, character rules, tank vehicle type) and the Appendix (swarm special rule, boltgun weapon profile). The Battlefield Terrain and Preparing for Battle sections in the BRB can also contain advanced rules. Basically any section of the BRB which is not the Core Rules section can contain advanced rules (although technically there may be advanced rules in the Core Rules section). The Core Rules section is for basic rules.
Advanced rules are any rules that distinguish a model as a specific model separate from the most basic infantry model using the basic rules for movement, shooting, combat, or morale.
The Army List Entry indicates what advanced rules apply. One typically finds Army List Entries in a codex but the advanced rules themselves can be found in all sections of the BRB and any 40k publication such as a Codex.
3) Special Rules are in the Special Rule section. They can also be elsewhere.
All Special Rules are Advanced Rules but not all Advanced Rules are Special Rules.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/04/22 04:22:03
Col you are quoting out of context, you are bringing up one sentence in the entire Basic Vs Advanced.
"The advanced rules that apply to a unit are indicated
in its Army List Entry."
"Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules."
If you are contradicting basic rules, that is an attribute of a special rule. Special Rules are located in the special rules section.
This below part of basic vs advanced tells us that advanced rules are special rules.
"For example, the basic rules state that a model must take a Morale check under certain situations. If, however, that model has a special rule that makes it immune to Morale checks, then it does not take such checks – the advanced rule takes precedence."
So as you can clearly see, Dear Col.
If you read the ENTIRE basic vs advanced, it more clearly tells you where to look. I am sorry you are so focused on a single sentence that gives you no specific directions.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/22 04:25:11
Ceann wrote: Col you are quoting out of context, you are bringing up one sentence in the entire Basic Vs Advanced.
"The advanced rules that apply to a unit are indicated
in its Army List Entry."
"Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules."
If you are contradicting basic rules, that is an attribute of a special rule. Special Rules are located in the special rules section.
This below part of basic vs advanced tells us that advanced rules are special rules.
"For example, the basic rules state that a model must take a Morale check under certain situations. If, however, that model has a special rule that makes it immune to Morale checks, then it does not take such checks – the advanced rule takes precedence."
So as you can clearly see, Dear Col.
If you read the ENTIRE basic vs advanced, it more clearly tells you where to look. I am sorry you are so focused on a single sentence that gives you no specific directions.
Special Rules are strictly abilities.
Whenever a creature or weapon has an ability that breaks or bends one of the main game rules, it is represented by a special rule.
Advanced rules come from having a special kind of wargear, unusual skills, being different to their fellows, or being not normal infantry
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
All special rules are advanced rules but not all advanced rules are special rules.
When a model is equipped with a boltgun it is an advanced rule. An equipped boltgun is not a special rule.
So Skyborne is a advanced rule that a Jump model has because it is not normal infantry model, but it is not an ability that bends or breaks the game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/22 04:36:08
"Special rules are so important that many of the other rules in this tome (particularly those for weapons and for troop types) are tied into the special rules given here."
The only special rule that any Boltgun has is a Combi-gun.
Melta, Graviton, Gets Hot
COMBI-WEAPONS
Combi-weapons are boltguns...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/22 04:47:31
"Special rules are so important that many of the other rules in this tome (particularly those for weapons and for troop types) are tied into the special rules given here."
The only special rule that any Boltgun has is a Combi-gun.
COMBI-WEAPONS
Combi-weapons are boltguns...
Do you see combi-melta in this rule?
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
No. We do not.
When a model is equipped with a boltgun it is an advanced rule.
I am accepting the rules as they are actually written.
Apparently you feel that you can just freely change the rules as you like. Your posts need to go in the Proposed Rules section.
Your argument has no place in YMDC. You are violating plainly stated rules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/22 04:49:36
"Special rules are so important that many of the other rules in this tome (particularly those for weapons and for troop types) are tied into the special rules given here."
The only special rule that any Boltgun has is a Combi-gun.
COMBI-WEAPONS
Combi-weapons are boltguns...
Do you see combi-melta in this rule?
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
No. We do not.
When a model is equipped with a boltgun it is an advanced rule.
I am accepting the rules as they are actually written.
Apparently you feel that you can just freely change the rules as you like. Your posts need to go in the Proposed Rules section.
Your argument has no place in YMDC. You are violating plainly stated rules.
I don't see " See Unit Types" for advanced rules.
You are violating plainly stated rules.
Your interpretation of advanced rules is your own house rule, not RAW.
Please keep your house rules at home.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/22 04:50:47
I don't see " See Unit Types" for advanced rules.
You are violating plainly stated rules.
Your interpretation of advanced rules is your own house rule, not RAW.
Please keep your house rules at home.
It's there.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
This is the how we determine which rule is which . . .
Spoiler:
1) Basic rules are in the Core Rules section and only in the Core Rules section.
Core Rules - This section contains all the basic rules that you will need in order to command your army and fight your Warhammer 40,000 battles.
2) Advanced rules are found in any section of the BRB that is not the Core Rules section, although technically there could be a few advanced rules in the Core Rules section. We just know that all basic rules are in the Core Rules section.
Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale. These are all the rules you’ll need for infantry models.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
The rule for advanced rules calls out "bike", "character", "tank", "swarm", and "boltgun" as examples of advanced rules that apply to specific models. Those particular example advanced rules can be found in the Unit Type section (bike unit type, character rules, tank vehicle type) and the Appendix (swarm special rule, boltgun weapon profile). The Battlefield Terrain and Preparing for Battle sections in the BRB can also contain advanced rules. Basically any section of the BRB which is not the Core Rules section can contain advanced rules (although technically there may be advanced rules in the Core Rules section). The Core Rules section is for basic rules.
Advanced rules are any rules that distinguish a model as a specific model separate from the most basic infantry model using the basic rules for movement, shooting, combat, or morale.
The Army List Entry indicates what advanced rules apply. One typically finds Army List Entries in a codex but the advanced rules themselves can be found in all sections of the BRB and any 40k publication such as a Codex.
3) Special Rules are in the Special Rule section. They can also be elsewhere.
All Special Rules are Advanced Rules but not all Advanced Rules are Special Rules.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/22 04:53:01
Remember the Core Rules section contains all the basic rules.
You have quoted this many times Col.
Core Rules - This section contains all the basic rules that you will need in order to command your army and fight your Warhammer 40,000 battles.
A boltgun is located on page 31 of the Shooting Phase.
A boltgun is a basic rule Col, by your own words.
Let's look at this statement again for the nth time.
Core Rules - This section contains all the basic rules that you will need in order to command your army and fight your Warhammer 40,000 battles.
The Core Rules contain all the basic rules, but not all of the rules in the Core Rules section are necessarily basic rules.
The actual profile (ie the actual rules) for the boltgun are located in the Appendix.
Not all models have shooting weapons. So whenever a model is equipped with a shooting weapon it is an advanced rule, because that distinguishes itself from the most basic infantry.
Spoiler:
Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale. These are all the rules you’ll need for infantry models.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
Advanced rules are any rules that distinguish a model as a specific model separate from the most basic infantry model using the basic rules for movement, shooting, combat, or morale.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/04/22 05:03:15
Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale. These are all the rules you’ll need for infantry models.
All that this means Col, is that Infantry units do not have any special rules by default. Which they don't.
"""Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank). """
Where are you told to consult the Unit Types section Col?
Stop making things up.
Ceann wrote: Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale. These are all the rules you’ll need for infantry models.
All that this means Col, is that Infantry units do not have any special rules by default. Which they don't.
This actually means that they do not have any advanced rules. Which they don't. So the most basic infantry unit doesn't have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun) or a bike.
Remember special rules are a special kind of advanced rule representing abilities that GW thinks break or bend the rules of the game.
Advanced rules are more generally any rules that distinguish a model as a specific model separate from the most basic infantry model using the basic rules for movement, shooting, combat, or morale.
Ceann wrote: """Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank). """
Where are you told to consult the Unit Types section Col?
Stop making things up.
Already pointed out.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
The rules support my argument. The rules do not support your argument.
This is the how we determine which rule is which . . .
Spoiler:
1) Basic rules are in the Core Rules section and only in the Core Rules section.
Core Rules - This section contains all the basic rules that you will need in order to command your army and fight your Warhammer 40,000 battles.
2) Advanced rules are found in any section of the BRB that is not the Core Rules section, although technically there could be a few advanced rules in the Core Rules section. We just know that all basic rules are in the Core Rules section.
Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale. These are all the rules you’ll need for infantry models.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
The rule for advanced rules calls out "bike", "character", "tank", "swarm", and "boltgun" as examples of advanced rules that apply to specific models. Those particular example advanced rules can be found in the Unit Type section (bike unit type, character rules, tank vehicle type) and the Appendix (swarm special rule, boltgun weapon profile). The Battlefield Terrain and Preparing for Battle sections in the BRB can also contain advanced rules. Basically any section of the BRB which is not the Core Rules section can contain advanced rules (although technically there may be advanced rules in the Core Rules section). The Core Rules section is for basic rules.
Advanced rules are any rules that distinguish a model as a specific model separate from the most basic infantry model using the basic rules for movement, shooting, combat, or morale.
The Army List Entry indicates what advanced rules apply. One typically finds Army List Entries in a codex but the advanced rules themselves can be found in all sections of the BRB and any 40k publication such as a Codex.
3) Special Rules are in the Special Rule section. They can also be elsewhere.
All Special Rules are Advanced Rules but not all Advanced Rules are Special Rules.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/04/22 05:12:46
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
Ceann wrote: Do you see "Unit Type" Section in this rule?
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
Since I have read the BRB I know where to go for advanced rules about "not normal infantry models". No explicit reference required.
So far, we’ve discussed the basic rules as they pertain to Infantry, the most important and common unit type in the Warhammer 40,000 game. However, whilst the definition of Infantry is incredibly broad (it can cover anything from the most diminutive Gretchin to the mightiest Space Marine), it’s not enough to capture the full variety, scope and splendour of a war-torn galaxy teeming with all manner of alien beasts.
To do justice to the full pomp and panoply of xenos creatures (as well as some of the weirder beings in service to the Emperor of Mankind), we will now cover a series of unit types, each with their own abilities and special rules. Vehicles are distinct enough to require their own section later on.
Unit Types
This section explores all the different unit types that describe your models. From footslogging infantry and rampaging monstrous creatures to armoured battle tanks and supersonic flyers, this section lists all the special rules that apply to these models. This section also includes rules to field the largest and most destructive units waging war on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium – super-heavy vehicles and gargantuan creatures – as well as detailing how heroic characters lead your troops to victory.
UNIT TYPES
This section describes the different types of units that can wage war in the 41st Millennium and the rules you will need to use them.
Is there some other place I should look in the BRB for advanced rules for "not normal infantry models" than the Unit Types section?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/22 05:19:16
When I told you I knew where to go for a "special kind of bolt gun" you asked "Do you see Combi-weapon here?" In order to prove your point.
When I asked you "Do you see Unit Type here?" You say that you know where to go.
That sounds like your own personal house rules Col. Your house rules are not RAW, please stop making things up.
The only location we have for advanced rules is from the Index which tells us page 13. Page 13 tells us we can find where advanced rules are applied in Army List Entry's.
It does not tell us to apply advanced rules from the BRB.
You are making things up.
No, there is no place you should look in the BRB for "not normal infantry models" you should look in the Army List Entry like it tells you.
Unit Types
This section explores all the different unit types that describe your models. From footslogging infantry
See, even Infantry are located in the Unit Types section.
They cannot be located there if they are the basic rule, because all basic rules are located in the Core Rules section.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/04/22 05:20:41
When I told you I knew where to go for a "special kind of bolt gun" you asked "Do you see Combi-weapon here?" In order to prove your point.
When I asked you "Do you see Unit Type here?" You say that you know where to go.
That sounds like your own personal house rules Col. Your house rules are not RAW, please stop making things up.
The only location we have for advanced rules is from the Index which tells us page 13. Page 13 tells us we can find where advanced rules are applied in Army List Entry's.
It does not tell us to apply advanced rules from the BRB.
You are making things up.
Nope the organization of the BRB makes it easy for me to find the rules for "not normal infantry".
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ceann wrote: No, there is no place you should look in the BRB for "not normal infantry models" you should look in the Army List Entry like it tells you.
That's fine too. The Unit Type attribute on the Army List Entry will direct me to the Unit Types section in the BRB.
Ceann wrote: Unit Types
This section explores all the different unit types that describe your models. From footslogging infantry
See, even Infantry are located in the Unit Types section.
They cannot be located there if they are the basic rule, because all basic rules are located in the Core Rules section.
Not an issue. When you go there, the Unit Types section tells you all the rules for infantry are in the Core Rules section and no new rules are added in the Unit Types section.
So far, we’ve discussed the basic rules as they pertain to Infantry, the most important and common unit type in the Warhammer 40,000 game.
As the bulk of the rules are concerned with them, there are no additional rules to present here.
So all basic rules are in the Core Rules section.
The rules support my argument. The rules do not support your argument.
This is the how we determine which rule is which . . .
Spoiler:
1) Basic rules are in the Core Rules section and only in the Core Rules section.
Core Rules - This section contains all the basic rules that you will need in order to command your army and fight your Warhammer 40,000 battles.
2) Advanced rules are found in any section of the BRB that is not the Core Rules section, although technically there could be a few advanced rules in the Core Rules section. We just know that all basic rules are in the Core Rules section.
Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale. These are all the rules you’ll need for infantry models.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
The rule for advanced rules calls out "bike", "character", "tank", "swarm", and "boltgun" as examples of advanced rules that apply to specific models. Those particular example advanced rules can be found in the Unit Type section (bike unit type, character rules, tank vehicle type) and the Appendix (swarm special rule, boltgun weapon profile). The Battlefield Terrain and Preparing for Battle sections in the BRB can also contain advanced rules. Basically any section of the BRB which is not the Core Rules section can contain advanced rules (although technically there may be advanced rules in the Core Rules section). The Core Rules section is for basic rules.
Advanced rules are any rules that distinguish a model as a specific model separate from the most basic infantry model using the basic rules for movement, shooting, combat, or morale.
The Army List Entry indicates what advanced rules apply. One typically finds Army List Entries in a codex but the advanced rules themselves can be found in all sections of the BRB and any 40k publication such as a Codex.
3) Special Rules are in the Special Rule section. They can also be elsewhere.
All Special Rules are Advanced Rules but not all Advanced Rules are Special Rules.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/04/22 05:30:11
When I told you I knew where to go for a "special kind of bolt gun" you asked "Do you see Combi-weapon here?" In order to prove your point.
When I asked you "Do you see Unit Type here?" You say that you know where to go.
That sounds like your own personal house rules Col. Your house rules are not RAW, please stop making things up.
The only location we have for advanced rules is from the Index which tells us page 13. Page 13 tells us we can find where advanced rules are applied in Army List Entry's.
It does not tell us to apply advanced rules from the BRB.
You are making things up.
Nope the organization of the BRB makes it easy for me to find the rules for "not normal infantry".
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ceann wrote: No, there is no place you should look in the BRB for "not normal infantry models" you should look in the Army List Entry like it tells you.
That's fine too. The Unit Type attribute on the Army List Entry will direct me to the Unit Types section in the BRB.
Ceann wrote: Unit Types
This section explores all the different unit types that describe your models. From footslogging infantry
See, even Infantry are located in the Unit Types section.
They cannot be located there if they are the basic rule, because all basic rules are located in the Core Rules section.
Not an issue. When you go there, the Unit Types section tells you all the rules for infantry are in the Core Rules section and no new rules are added in the Unit Types section.
So all basic rules are in the Core Rules section.
Well the organization of the BRB made it easy for me to find a combi-weapon.
There are no rules present on page 61 for Infantry.
Since Infantry Units are located on page 61 they are an advanced rule.
Since advanced rules take precedence, Infantry cannot move.
There are no directions on page 61 to consult the Core Rules section.
Well the organization of the BRB made it easy for me to find a combi-weapon.
You just pointed out that the BvA rules explicitly tell me to use the Army List Entry and when I do then it directs me explicitly to the Unit Types section. So you proved me right.
The rule says 'boltgun'. Deal with what the rules actually say.
Ceann wrote: There are no rules present on page 61 for Infantry.
Since Infantry Units are located on page 61 they are an advanced rule.
Since advanced rules take precedence, Infantry cannot move.
There are no directions on page 61 to consult the Core Rules section.
Good thing all models have the basic rules for infantry applied to them and there is no need for an explicit direction to those rules. Those rules are just 'there already'. And if you go to a page that says it adds nothing to those basic rules then there is nothing to override those basic rules.
Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale. These are all the rules you’ll need for infantry models.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/22 05:38:39
When I told you I knew where to go for a "special kind of bolt gun" you asked "Do you see Combi-weapon here?" In order to prove your point.
When I asked you "Do you see Unit Type here?" You say that you know where to go.
That sounds like your own personal house rules Col. Your house rules are not RAW, please stop making things up.
The only location we have for advanced rules is from the Index which tells us page 13. Page 13 tells us we can find where advanced rules are applied in Army List Entry's.
It does not tell us to apply advanced rules from the BRB.
You are making things up.
Nope the organization of the BRB makes it easy for me to find the rules for "not normal infantry".
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ceann wrote: No, there is no place you should look in the BRB for "not normal infantry models" you should look in the Army List Entry like it tells you.
That's fine too. The Unit Type attribute on the Army List Entry will direct me to the Unit Types section in the BRB.
Ceann wrote: Unit Types
This section explores all the different unit types that describe your models. From footslogging infantry
See, even Infantry are located in the Unit Types section.
They cannot be located there if they are the basic rule, because all basic rules are located in the Core Rules section.
Not an issue. When you go there, the Unit Types section tells you all the rules for infantry are in the Core Rules section and no new rules are added in the Unit Types section.
So all basic rules are in the Core Rules section.
Well the organization of the BRB made it easy for me to find a combi-weapon.
There are no rules present on page 61 for Infantry.
Since Infantry Units are located on page 61 they are an advanced rule.
Since advanced rules take precedence, Infantry cannot move.
There are no directions on page 61 to consult the Core Rules section.
This is funny, but that is what happens when you play loose with RAI. Of course, col_impact is always welcome to use the RAW examples I have shown to make it work. I have noticed that nobody has had an issue with my Kharn example. I could bring up Kor'sorro example with Moondrakken if needed?
This is funny, but that is what happens when you play loose with RAI. Of course, col_impact is always welcome to use the RAW examples I have shown to make it work. I have noticed that nobody has had an issue with my Kharn example. I could bring up Kor'sorro example with Moondrakken if needed?
No offense but people are basically just ignoring you. Your posts aren't really adding anything to the discussion. Your posts are really just showing that you are confused about BvA and that you think its okay to violate plainly stated rules.
Core Rules - This section contains all the basic rules that you will need in order to command your army and fight your Warhammer 40,000 battles.
YMDC doesn't like arguments that directly contradict plainly stated rules.
This is the how we determine which rule is which . . .
Spoiler:
1) Basic rules are in the Core Rules section and only in the Core Rules section.
Core Rules - This section contains all the basic rules that you will need in order to command your army and fight your Warhammer 40,000 battles.
2) Advanced rules are found in any section of the BRB that is not the Core Rules section, although technically there could be a few advanced rules in the Core Rules section. We just know that all basic rules are in the Core Rules section.
Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale. These are all the rules you’ll need for infantry models.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
The rule for advanced rules calls out "bike", "character", "tank", "swarm", and "boltgun" as examples of advanced rules that apply to specific models. Those particular example advanced rules can be found in the Unit Type section (bike unit type, character rules, tank vehicle type) and the Appendix (swarm special rule, boltgun weapon profile). The Battlefield Terrain and Preparing for Battle sections in the BRB can also contain advanced rules. Basically any section of the BRB which is not the Core Rules section can contain advanced rules (although technically there may be advanced rules in the Core Rules section). The Core Rules section is for basic rules.
Advanced rules are any rules that distinguish a model as a specific model separate from the most basic infantry model using the basic rules for movement, shooting, combat, or morale.
The Army List Entry indicates what advanced rules apply. One typically finds Army List Entries in a codex but the advanced rules themselves can be found in all sections of the BRB and any 40k publication such as a Codex.
3) Special Rules are in the Special Rule section. They can also be elsewhere.
All Special Rules are Advanced Rules but not all Advanced Rules are Special Rules.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/22 05:45:37
You are not told to look at "Unit Type" section.
The best answer you have is "Nope the organization of the BRB makes it easy for me to find the rules for "not normal infantry".
I am sorry but BvA doesn't say that is the rule.
Your posts are really just showing that you are confused about BvA and that you think its okay to violate plainly stated rules.
You are not told to look at "Unit Type" section.
The best answer you have is "Nope the organization of the BRB makes it easy for me to find the rules for "not normal infantry".
I am sorry but BvA doesn't say that is the rule.
Your posts are really just showing that you are confused about BvA and that you think its okay to violate plainly stated rules.
The BvA rules explicitly tell me to use the Army List Entry and when I do then it directs me explicitly to the Unit Types section.
If a 'not normal infantry model' type shows up in the Unit Type of the Army List Entry it is going to send me to the Unit Types section directly.
Army List Entries [ . . . ]
6. Unit Type: This refers to the unit type rules in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules. For example, a unit may be classed as Infantry, Cavalry or Vehicle, which will subject it to a number of rules regarding movement, shooting, assaults, etc.
Are you ready to concede yet?
This is the how we determine which rule is which . . .
Spoiler:
1) Basic rules are in the Core Rules section and only in the Core Rules section.
Core Rules - This section contains all the basic rules that you will need in order to command your army and fight your Warhammer 40,000 battles.
2) Advanced rules are found in any section of the BRB that is not the Core Rules section, although technically there could be a few advanced rules in the Core Rules section. We just know that all basic rules are in the Core Rules section.
Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale. These are all the rules you’ll need for infantry models.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
The rule for advanced rules calls out "bike", "character", "tank", "swarm", and "boltgun" as examples of advanced rules that apply to specific models. Those particular example advanced rules can be found in the Unit Type section (bike unit type, character rules, tank vehicle type) and the Appendix (swarm special rule, boltgun weapon profile). The Battlefield Terrain and Preparing for Battle sections in the BRB can also contain advanced rules. Basically any section of the BRB which is not the Core Rules section can contain advanced rules (although technically there may be advanced rules in the Core Rules section). The Core Rules section is for basic rules.
Advanced rules are any rules that distinguish a model as a specific model separate from the most basic infantry model using the basic rules for movement, shooting, combat, or morale.
The Army List Entry indicates what advanced rules apply. One typically finds Army List Entries in a codex but the advanced rules themselves can be found in all sections of the BRB and any 40k publication such as a Codex.
3) Special Rules are in the Special Rule section. They can also be elsewhere.
All Special Rules are Advanced Rules but not all Advanced Rules are Special Rules.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/22 06:01:54
They are not looking for a "not infantry model" they are looking for a "not normal infantry models".
A not normal infantry model is a type of Infantry.
Not normal Infantry models are located in the Characters section of the BRB. They are called IC's.
You have some IC's such as Pask who can be in a tank, some that can purchase bikes. This is where you can find "not normal infantry models".
Unit Types are not Infantry models.
CHARACTER TYPES
Most characters are fielded in units from the start of the game, and represent squad
leaders, such as a Space Marine Veteran Sergeant. They have their own profile, but do not
have a separate entry.
Independent Characters
Some characters have the Independent Character special rule, which allows them to join
other units.
I am glad that you agree that special rules cover the specific models detailed in the BvA description.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/22 06:01:08
Ceann wrote: "or because they are not normal infantry models"
They are not looking for a "not infantry model" they are looking for a "not normal infantry models".
A not normal infantry model is a type of Infantry.
Not normal Infantry models are located in the Characters section of the BRB. They are called IC's.
You have some IC's such as Pask who can be in a tank, some that can purchase bikes. This is where you can find "not normal infantry models".
Unit Types are not Infantry models.
CHARACTER TYPES
Most characters are fielded in units from the start of the game, and represent squad
leaders, such as a Space Marine Veteran Sergeant. They have their own profile, but do not
have a separate entry.
Independent Characters
Some characters have the Independent Character special rule, which allows them to join
other units.
I am glad that you agree that special rules cover the specific models detailed in the BvA description.
Bike, tank, and swarm are provided as examples. So your silly attempt at obfuscation doesn't hold up to simply reading the rules provided.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
The BvA rules explicitly tell me to use the Army List Entry and when I do then it directs me explicitly to the Unit Types section.
If a 'not normal infantry model' type shows up in the Unit Type of the Army List Entry such as 'bike' or 'tank' or 'cavalry' it is going to send me to the Unit Types section directly.
Army List Entries [ . . . ]
6. Unit Type: This refers to the unit type rules in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules. For example, a unit may be classed as Infantry, Cavalry or Vehicle, which will subject it to a number of rules regarding movement, shooting, assaults, etc.
Are you ready to concede yet?
Seriously, your posts have been nothing but nitpicky silliness and continuing along the same vein is making you just look foolish in my opinion.
Are you ready to concede yet?
Your argument goes against the rules. My argument follows the rules.
This is the how we determine which rule is which . . .
Spoiler:
1) Basic rules are in the Core Rules section and only in the Core Rules section.
Core Rules - This section contains all the basic rules that you will need in order to command your army and fight your Warhammer 40,000 battles.
2) Advanced rules are found in any section of the BRB that is not the Core Rules section, although technically there could be a few advanced rules in the Core Rules section. We just know that all basic rules are in the Core Rules section.
Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale. These are all the rules you’ll need for infantry models.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
The rule for advanced rules calls out "bike", "character", "tank", "swarm", and "boltgun" as examples of advanced rules that apply to specific models. Those particular example advanced rules can be found in the Unit Type section (bike unit type, character rules, tank vehicle type) and the Appendix (swarm special rule, boltgun weapon profile). The Battlefield Terrain and Preparing for Battle sections in the BRB can also contain advanced rules. Basically any section of the BRB which is not the Core Rules section can contain advanced rules (although technically there may be advanced rules in the Core Rules section). The Core Rules section is for basic rules.
Advanced rules are any rules that distinguish a model as a specific model separate from the most basic infantry model using the basic rules for movement, shooting, combat, or morale.
The Army List Entry indicates what advanced rules apply. One typically finds Army List Entries in a codex but the advanced rules themselves can be found in all sections of the BRB and any 40k publication such as a Codex.
3) Special Rules are in the Special Rule section. They can also be elsewhere.
All Special Rules are Advanced Rules but not all Advanced Rules are Special Rules.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/04/22 06:09:42
Ceann wrote: "or because they are not normal infantry models"
They are not looking for a "not infantry model" they are looking for a "not normal infantry models".
A not normal infantry model is a type of Infantry.
Not normal Infantry models are located in the Characters section of the BRB. They are called IC's.
You have some IC's such as Pask who can be in a tank, some that can purchase bikes. This is where you can find "not normal infantry models".
Unit Types are not Infantry models.
CHARACTER TYPES
Most characters are fielded in units from the start of the game, and represent squad
leaders, such as a Space Marine Veteran Sergeant. They have their own profile, but do not
have a separate entry.
Independent Characters
Some characters have the Independent Character special rule, which allows them to join
other units.
I am glad that you agree that special rules cover the specific models detailed in the BvA description.
Bike, tank, and swarm are provided as examples. So your silly attempt at obfuscation doesn't hold up to simply reading the rules provided.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
The BvA rules explicitly tell me to use the Army List Entry and when I do then it directs me explicitly to the Unit Types section.
If a 'not normal infantry model' type shows up in the Unit Type of the Army List Entry such as 'bike' or 'tank' or 'cavalry' it is going to send me to the Unit Types section directly.
Army List Entries [ . . . ]
6. Unit Type: This refers to the unit type rules in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules. For example, a unit may be classed as Infantry, Cavalry or Vehicle, which will subject it to a number of rules regarding movement, shooting, assaults, etc.
Are you ready to concede yet?
Seriously, your posts have been nothing but nitpicky silliness and continuing along the same vein is making you just look foolish in my opinion.
Are you ready to concede yet?
Your argument goes against the rules. My argument follows the rules.
This is the how we determine which rule is which . . .
Spoiler:
1) Basic rules are in the Core Rules section and only in the Core Rules section.
Core Rules - This section contains all the basic rules that you will need in order to command your army and fight your Warhammer 40,000 battles.
2) Advanced rules are found in any section of the BRB that is not the Core Rules section, although technically there could be a few advanced rules in the Core Rules section. We just know that all basic rules are in the Core Rules section.
Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale. These are all the rules you’ll need for infantry models.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
The rule for advanced rules calls out "bike", "character", "tank", "swarm", and "boltgun" as examples of advanced rules that apply to specific models. Those particular example advanced rules can be found in the Unit Type section (bike unit type, character rules, tank vehicle type) and the Appendix (swarm special rule, boltgun weapon profile). The Battlefield Terrain and Preparing for Battle sections in the BRB can also contain advanced rules. Basically any section of the BRB which is not the Core Rules section can contain advanced rules (although technically there may be advanced rules in the Core Rules section). The Core Rules section is for basic rules.
Advanced rules are any rules that distinguish a model as a specific model separate from the most basic infantry model using the basic rules for movement, shooting, combat, or morale.
The Army List Entry indicates what advanced rules apply. One typically finds Army List Entries in a codex but the advanced rules themselves can be found in all sections of the BRB and any 40k publication such as a Codex.
3) Special Rules are in the Special Rule section. They can also be elsewhere.
All Special Rules are Advanced Rules but not all Advanced Rules are Special Rules.
Oh Col,
I can see where you are so confused now, bless your heart.
But don't worry I will help you out.
While I am very proud of you for finally starting to look into the codex for Advanced Rules, just like BvA tells you, we have to make sure we are looking at the right thing when we do so.
1.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have aspecial kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
2.
The advanced rules that apply to a unit are indicated in its Army List Entry.
Ok, now this is going to be hard but I need you to follow along.
FORMING A UNIT
The models that make up your Warhammer 40,000 army must be organized
into ‘units’.
This is from our friend, the Core Rules.
A unit usually consists of several models that have banded together...
So you see statement 1, does not apply to a unit.
Statement 2 applies to a unit.
So the criteria for statement 1, does not apply to statement 2.
You see a model is located in a unit, and a SPECIFIC model, is ONE model in an unit.
So statement 1 only applies to a SPECIFIC model in a unit.
I hope you figured it out now.
Unit Type is not an advanced rule, but I am glad we started looking at a codex now.
I can see where you are so confused now, bless your heart.
But don't worry I will help you out.
While I am very proud of you for finally starting to look into the codex for Advanced Rules, just like BvA tells you, we have to make sure we are looking at the right thing when we do so.
1.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have aspecial kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
2.
The advanced rules that apply to a unit are indicated in its Army List Entry.
Ok, now this is going to be hard but I need you to follow along.
FORMING A UNIT
The models that make up your Warhammer 40,000 army must be organized
into ‘units’.
This is from our friend, the Core Rules.
A unit usually consists of several models that have banded together...
So you see statement 1, does not apply to a unit.
Statement 2 applies to a unit.
So the criteria for statement 1, does not apply to statement 2.
You see a model is located in a unit, and a SPECIFIC model, is ONE model in an unit.
So statement 1 only applies to a SPECIFIC model in a unit.
I hope you figured it out now.
Unit Type is not an advanced rule, but I am glad we started looking at a codex now.
More nitpicky silliness. I guess you haven't leaned your lesson yet. Advanced rules apply to "specific types of models". Plural. Models plural may or may not mean unit. Advanced rules can apply to either since a unit is a collection of models.
You are getting confused about the difference between units and models and are forcing a false dichotomy between the usage of the two when the BRB often interchanges their usage. The topic of Unit Type is a topic that is about models and the unit that comprises those models.
Unit Types
This section explores all the different unit types that describe your models.
In addition to its characteristics profile, each model will have a unit type, such as Infantry or Monstrous Creature, which we discuss in the Unit Types section.
A unit usually consists of several models that have banded together, but a single, powerful model, such as a lone character, a tank, a war engine or a rampaging monster, is also considered to be a unit in its own right.
In most cases, it will be fairly obvious which unit type category a model falls into, but as unit type is essentially an extension of the characteristic profile, you’ll be able to find that information in the relevant codex or Army List Entry.
In addition to their unit type, some models might also be noted as being characters.
'Unit' and 'model' are used in the appropriate context in the Unit Type section. The Unit Type section freely switches between discussing 'units' and 'models' and is not confined to discussing just models or just units.
Spoiler:
JUMP UNITS
Jump units are equipped with jump packs, wings, teleport devices or other means of moving quickly over short distances. Unlike most other unit type categories, ‘Jump’ is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you’ll find it occurs before another category – commonly Infantry, sometimes Monstrous Creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things. Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type. Jump Infantry would, for example, follow the rules for Jump units and Infantry.
Jump units can use their jump packs once each turn to move more swiftly in either the Movement phase or the Assault phase – they cannot use their jump packs in both phases in the same turn. If not using its jump pack, a model moves as a normal model of its type. Indeed, a Jump unit can always choose to move as a normal model of their type if they wish. Note that the entire unit must always use the same form of movement. Units that are described as ‘moving like’ Jump units follow all of the rules for Jump units, and use the same special rules.
SKYBORNE
When using its jump pack (whether moving, charging or Falling Back, as we’ll discuss in a moment) a model can move over all other models and all terrain freely. However, if the model begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a Dangerous Terrain test.
Jump models cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is actually possible to place the models on top of it. If they do this, however, they treat the impassable terrain as dangerous terrain.
MOVEMENT PHASE
If a Jump model uses its jump pack (or equivalent) in the Movement phase, it can move up to 12".
ASSAULT PHASE
If a Jump model uses its jump pack to charge into assault, it can re-roll its chargedistance.
Furthermore, to represent the crushing impact of such a charge, a model that uses its jump pack to charge gains the Hammer of Wrath special rule for the remainder of the turn.
FALL BACK MOVES
Jump units always use their jump packs when Falling Back, and their Fall Back moves are 3D6", even if they already used their jump pack to move that turn.
SPECIAL RULES
Jump units have the Bulky and Deep Strike special rules.
The Unit Type Section is nothing but advanced rules.
Bike, tank, and swarm are provided as examples in the definition of advanced rules.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
The BvA rules explicitly tell me to use the Army List Entry and when I do then it directs me explicitly to the Unit Types section.
If a 'not normal infantry model' type shows up in the Unit Type of the Army List Entry such as 'bike' or 'tank' or 'cavalry' it is going to send me to the Unit Types section directly.
Army List Entries [ . . . ]
6. Unit Type: This refers to the unit type rules in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules. For example, a unit may be classed as Infantry, Cavalry or Vehicle, which will subject it to a number of rules regarding movement, shooting, assaults, etc.
This is the how we determine which rule is which . . .
Spoiler:
1) Basic rules are in the Core Rules section and only in the Core Rules section.
Core Rules - This section contains all the basic rules that you will need in order to command your army and fight your Warhammer 40,000 battles.
2) Advanced rules are found in any section of the BRB that is not the Core Rules section, although technically there could be a few advanced rules in the Core Rules section. We just know that all basic rules are in the Core Rules section.
Basic rules apply to all the models in the game, unless stated otherwise. They include the rules for movement, shooting and close combat as well as the rules for morale. These are all the rules you’ll need for infantry models.
Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon (such as a boltgun), unusual skills (such as the ability to regenerate), because they are different to their fellows (such as a unit leader or a heroic character), or because they are not normal infantry models (a bike, a swarm or even a tank).
The rule for advanced rules calls out "bike", "character", "tank", "swarm", and "boltgun" as examples of advanced rules that apply to specific models. Those particular example advanced rules can be found in the Unit Type section (bike unit type, character rules, tank vehicle type) and the Appendix (swarm special rule, boltgun weapon profile). The Battlefield Terrain and Preparing for Battle sections in the BRB can also contain advanced rules. Basically any section of the BRB which is not the Core Rules section can contain advanced rules (although technically there may be advanced rules in the Core Rules section). The Core Rules section is for basic rules.
Advanced rules are any rules that distinguish a model as a specific model separate from the most basic infantry model using the basic rules for movement, shooting, combat, or morale.
The Army List Entry indicates what advanced rules apply. One typically finds Army List Entries in a codex but the advanced rules themselves can be found in all sections of the BRB and any 40k publication such as a Codex.
3) Special Rules are in the Special Rule section. They can also be elsewhere.
All Special Rules are Advanced Rules but not all Advanced Rules are Special Rules.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/04/22 06:33:02
I have given you multiple examples of exactly how the rules work, per the RAW. I have shown you the interaction between the Basic Rules of Unit Types and how Advanced Rules interact with said Basic Rules of Unit Types.
On the other hand, you have shown rubbish when trying to explain the process of Stormrider, even going so far as to call it a codex Special Rule when it is a prime example of Basic versus Advanced scenario explained step by step. Your explanation for Kharn or Kor'sorro would more then likely be more of the same RAI crap.
