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Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




you guys are nuts. incinerators are not bad. no penalty to hit, no roll to hit, higher strength and an so value.

not to mention a ruthless overwatch.

they're not great from deepstrike because of the range deficit but getting out of a transport and flaming the he'll out of a squad is nasty.

especially if you pick an assault target that has to charge you to hurt and it gets overwatched again.

psilencers don't pack a punch. only reason I took them on the dreadknights is because I didn't have points for psycannons
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Kahor wrote:

nice! I imagine that'll get changed or FAQ'd but that's pretty good. That'll work on a Dreadknight as well I guess? (because for some reason they get that -1 penalty?!)


I forgot to address this.

So under Reinforcements, the -1 only applies when units "arrive from reinforcements". Simply being "set up" on prohibits you from Moving and Advancing.

Gate, by contrast, just says to "immediately set [the unit] up anywhere". It's not arriving from Reinforcements because it already arrived.

Might get FAQ'd. I can honestly see it going either way in the future, but right now there's a good case to be made for Purgation squads being able to shoot at full BS after Gating.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
raoiley wrote:
you guys are nuts. incinerators are not bad. no penalty to hit, no roll to hit, higher strength and an so value.

not to mention a ruthless overwatch.

they're not great from deepstrike because of the range deficit but getting out of a transport and flaming the he'll out of a squad is nasty.

especially if you pick an assault target that has to charge you to hurt and it gets overwatched again.

psilencers don't pack a punch. only reason I took them on the dreadknights is because I didn't have points for psycannons


If you look earlier in this thread I believe someone linked to the math. At least vis-a-vis Psilencers and Psycannons, the Psilencer should always outperform the Psycannon even against big targets like Dreadnoughts.

The Dev FAQ also says you can charge from out of Line of Sight, which would negate part of the benefit of the Incinerator. It also cannot fire Overwatch if they charge from more than 8" away.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/21 20:50:35


 
   
Made in us
Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar






Audustum wrote:
Spartacus wrote:
The limitation of a psychic power once per turn only applies to powers other than smite (from matched play rules).

Pro tip: Crowe can cast 2 powers per turn, so his much vaunted D6 mortal wound smite is actually 2D6 if you want to


The Matched Play Limitation is talking about different psykers casting the same spell, not the same psykers casting the same spell. It's saying out of your whole Grey Knight army, only one gets to cast Hammerhand, one gets to cast Gate and one gets to cast Purge per turn. The Smite exception is just saying every unit can cast Smite.

Nothing in the Matched Play section overrides the general rule from the beginning of the book:


A psyker cannot attempt to manifest the same psychic power more than once in a turn


Under "2. Make a Psychic Test".

So, unfortunately, Crowe and all the rest can each only cast Smite once.


I had missed the part about a psyker not being able to cast the same one twice, only saw that Smite wasn't limited. Bummer. Growing pains with new rules!

4k
2k
1.5k
1k
 
   
Made in nz
Regular Dakkanaut




Now that that the Forge World 8th books are coming out, what are you guys seeing as being complementary to the Grey Knights?
   
Made in gb
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation




Gibs55 wrote:
Now that that the Forge World 8th books are coming out, what are you guys seeing as being complementary to the Grey Knights?


I haven't seen the Forge World stuff but in terms of other forces to join with GK, I think you can't go wrong with Guard. It'll allow you to add a bunch of bodies to your small elite army in order to try and protect the GK elements of your army and move them into the position you want them.

Personally I prefer pure for all my armies but the above is how I would go for a mixture.

Or just take all the best characters from all the marine armies and stick them together for fun!
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




 Coyote81 wrote:
Audustum wrote:
 Coyote81 wrote:
Spoiler:
Audustum wrote:
 Coyote81 wrote:
Audustum wrote:
 Coyote81 wrote:
Nairul wrote:
 daedalus wrote:
Nairul wrote:
To everyone praising Strike Squads... why take a 5-man Strike Squad when, for 20 pts more, you could take an equally-equipped 5-man Interceptor Squad? At 12" movement ignoring terrain/models they're incredibly mobile, and more importantly Interceptors are GK units you can actually set up on the table in Matched Play because of their Personal Teleporters. That's something incredibly important for GK this edition, as it allows for us to keep our more threatening units (Dreadknights, Paladins, Draigo, etc.) in reinforcements.


I suppose really points optimum would be to talk half and half, so that you can immediately redeploy them for the full-army alpha strike while still getting some of them on the cheap. Wouldn't save you much, but might save enough for those handful of psilencers or whatever you want to bring. I was looking at them for the ultrafast CC rush.


Half and half sounds reasonable if you're sold on bringing a marine-based GK list... which could be interesting because it's more bodies on the field. To me though, our finite reinforcement slots are best filled by Dreadknights and/or Paladins w/ Apothecary. Both are threats which seem to outclass the Strike Squad.


Meh, I feel Dreadknights aren't going to be worth their points, and paladins just cost so damn much and leave a lot on the table when it comes to trying to take/hold multiple objectives. I get more then 2x Interceptors for each paladin. That is a lot more Stormbolter shooting. No quit sure how your going to deal with horde armies without a ton of stormbolter dakka.



Cause if you try to gun fight something like Guard you're gonna lose. No matter how many bolters we bring they will out shoot us and it will hurt. We need something more like (somehow) getting Purifiers close enough to AoE, assassinating leadership buffing units or healing through the damage (which I'm not sure is possible either.

Against Orks your idea has merit though.


I agree about getting in purifiers, or potentially stormravens into the back to get at those pesky tanks. But you aren't going to be able to afford those kinds of things if you are throwing points at paladins.


You don't take those things with Paladins. The Paladins can deep strike and deal with tanks on their own. You're more worried about the Commissars and Conscript blobs, which is why I recommend adding Vindicares.


How are paladins dealing with tanks? You have to deep strike 9+" away, have no anti-tank ranged weapons, and have to hope to make a great charge, plus most of the time you will be pushed out of charge range by bubble wrap.


You use two/three units of Terms/Paladins to deep strike near the tanks you want to charge. An opening in the bubble-wrap should be made by Dreadknight Incinerators, Assassins (on leadership buffs) and any Psilencers. Using a CP to re-roll one of your charge dice, you should almost assuredly be able to get a unit straight to the tank. If you're pushed too far from the tank, you simply charge the (now weakened) bubble-wrap and Pile-In + Consolidate to bring the tank into combat. You can then chase it down reliably the next turn. 3 melee Paladins are only about 165 points. You don't need to kit them out entirely as a heavy weapons platform.

It's a lot more consistent than praying for lucky 5's and 6's on a horde of Storm Bolter fire or relying on a Stormraven or two that can easily get destroyed*.

*Please note, my meta is about 2,000 points for a match and is full of WAAC's. Power-armored marines are lucky to survive past a single round and something like a Stormraven usually goes down by T2 since it can't really get in line of slight blocking cover.


So your talking about turn 2-3 charges at the earliest, because you can't DS any nearby until after you dealt with the bubble-wrap with your expensive Dreaknights, so that you can drop your expensive paladin squads down, hoping for that 9" charge., that also considering your dreadknight even gets in incinerator range, since he can't DS in range, and only has an 8" move now. I get 197 for 3x paladins with great hammers, because your not killing tanks in melee with anything else. Mathwise. 6x attacks at 4+, 3x attacks at 3+ should net you ~5 hits, with means ~3 wounds = 9 damage, ignoring lucky 6+ saves, Thats on average, you won't kill any tanks with that, but you will cripple them, if you roll less, it could be much worse. This doesn't seem remotely reliable. Plus all the points you spend to set up the charge. You could be buying Dreadnoughts with twinlascannon+ML, or Razorbacks with Twinlascannons, or Stormravens with Twin Lascannon (Trend?) +Multimelta,and stormstrike missiles.


FYI, anything that can easily destroy a stormraven, should do the same to paladins.


Late to this, but isn't it obvious ? Twin Las Razors fill a number of holes in a pure GK list. They give anti-tank. They start on the table allowing you to put your other stuff in reserve. They're fast in a mostly slow moving army. They're durable and need multi-damage shots to put down - the same stuff you don't want shot at your Paladins.

Talking of Paladins - they're a terrible idea for anti-tank. Assault from deep strike isn't reliable, even with a re-roll (on one squad only)
   
Made in us
Member of the Malleus






Bartali wrote:
 Coyote81 wrote:
Audustum wrote:
 Coyote81 wrote:
Spoiler:
Audustum wrote:
 Coyote81 wrote:
Audustum wrote:
 Coyote81 wrote:
Nairul wrote:
 daedalus wrote:
Nairul wrote:
To everyone praising Strike Squads... why take a 5-man Strike Squad when, for 20 pts more, you could take an equally-equipped 5-man Interceptor Squad? At 12" movement ignoring terrain/models they're incredibly mobile, and more importantly Interceptors are GK units you can actually set up on the table in Matched Play because of their Personal Teleporters. That's something incredibly important for GK this edition, as it allows for us to keep our more threatening units (Dreadknights, Paladins, Draigo, etc.) in reinforcements.


I suppose really points optimum would be to talk half and half, so that you can immediately redeploy them for the full-army alpha strike while still getting some of them on the cheap. Wouldn't save you much, but might save enough for those handful of psilencers or whatever you want to bring. I was looking at them for the ultrafast CC rush.


Half and half sounds reasonable if you're sold on bringing a marine-based GK list... which could be interesting because it's more bodies on the field. To me though, our finite reinforcement slots are best filled by Dreadknights and/or Paladins w/ Apothecary. Both are threats which seem to outclass the Strike Squad.


Meh, I feel Dreadknights aren't going to be worth their points, and paladins just cost so damn much and leave a lot on the table when it comes to trying to take/hold multiple objectives. I get more then 2x Interceptors for each paladin. That is a lot more Stormbolter shooting. No quit sure how your going to deal with horde armies without a ton of stormbolter dakka.



Cause if you try to gun fight something like Guard you're gonna lose. No matter how many bolters we bring they will out shoot us and it will hurt. We need something more like (somehow) getting Purifiers close enough to AoE, assassinating leadership buffing units or healing through the damage (which I'm not sure is possible either.

Against Orks your idea has merit though.


I agree about getting in purifiers, or potentially stormravens into the back to get at those pesky tanks. But you aren't going to be able to afford those kinds of things if you are throwing points at paladins.


You don't take those things with Paladins. The Paladins can deep strike and deal with tanks on their own. You're more worried about the Commissars and Conscript blobs, which is why I recommend adding Vindicares.


How are paladins dealing with tanks? You have to deep strike 9+" away, have no anti-tank ranged weapons, and have to hope to make a great charge, plus most of the time you will be pushed out of charge range by bubble wrap.


You use two/three units of Terms/Paladins to deep strike near the tanks you want to charge. An opening in the bubble-wrap should be made by Dreadknight Incinerators, Assassins (on leadership buffs) and any Psilencers. Using a CP to re-roll one of your charge dice, you should almost assuredly be able to get a unit straight to the tank. If you're pushed too far from the tank, you simply charge the (now weakened) bubble-wrap and Pile-In + Consolidate to bring the tank into combat. You can then chase it down reliably the next turn. 3 melee Paladins are only about 165 points. You don't need to kit them out entirely as a heavy weapons platform.

It's a lot more consistent than praying for lucky 5's and 6's on a horde of Storm Bolter fire or relying on a Stormraven or two that can easily get destroyed*.

*Please note, my meta is about 2,000 points for a match and is full of WAAC's. Power-armored marines are lucky to survive past a single round and something like a Stormraven usually goes down by T2 since it can't really get in line of slight blocking cover.


So your talking about turn 2-3 charges at the earliest, because you can't DS any nearby until after you dealt with the bubble-wrap with your expensive Dreaknights, so that you can drop your expensive paladin squads down, hoping for that 9" charge., that also considering your dreadknight even gets in incinerator range, since he can't DS in range, and only has an 8" move now. I get 197 for 3x paladins with great hammers, because your not killing tanks in melee with anything else. Mathwise. 6x attacks at 4+, 3x attacks at 3+ should net you ~5 hits, with means ~3 wounds = 9 damage, ignoring lucky 6+ saves, Thats on average, you won't kill any tanks with that, but you will cripple them, if you roll less, it could be much worse. This doesn't seem remotely reliable. Plus all the points you spend to set up the charge. You could be buying Dreadnoughts with twinlascannon+ML, or Razorbacks with Twinlascannons, or Stormravens with Twin Lascannon (Trend?) +Multimelta,and stormstrike missiles.


FYI, anything that can easily destroy a stormraven, should do the same to paladins.


Late to this, but isn't it obvious ? Twin Las Razors fill a number of holes in a pure GK list. They give anti-tank. They start on the table allowing you to put your other stuff in reserve. They're fast in a mostly slow moving army. They're durable and need multi-damage shots to put down - the same stuff you don't want shot at your Paladins.

Talking of Paladins - they're a terrible idea for anti-tank. Assault from deep strike isn't reliable, even with a re-roll (on one squad only)


I had been contemplating this as well. Psilencer equipped purgation squads in razorbacks seem like a decent option for table deployed units. Also lets not forget how strong dual autocannon dreads look.

This provides another solid fire base. Might be an even better option. For 136 points your getting 8 str 7 ap -1 2 damage shots.

Razorback provides transport but with a lascannon your looking at 2 str 9 ap -3 d6 damage shots.

Thinking the volume from a dread might outweigh the transport capanilites and lascannon damage.

 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




A few problems with Dreads

1. They're another slow unit
2. They take up an Elites slot which you want for your Paladins - this may or may not be a problem depending on how many detachments you're running and how many HQs you're fielding. Razorbacks are slotless. Remember you don't have to buy a squad that can actually ride in the Razorback

Damage output between the Auto Dread and Las Razorback is pretty similar - whilst the Dread puts out more shots, the AP-1 lets it down.
The Dread is better against a wider range of targets though, whilst the Razorback is more flexible in use (using it's speed for objectives or assaulting to eat overwatch for your infantry/ locking down other shooting units.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/22 14:39:48


 
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





Bartali wrote:
A few problems with Dreads

1. They're another slow unit
2. They take up an Elites slot which you want for your Paladins - this may or may not be a problem depending on how many detachments you're running and how many HQs you're fielding. Razorbacks are slotless. Remember you don't have to buy a squad that can actually ride in the Razorback

Damage output between the Auto Dread and Las Razorback is pretty similar - whilst the Dread puts out more shots, the AP-1 lets it down.
The Dread is better against a wider range of targets though, whilst the Razorback is more flexible in use (using it's speed for objectives or assaulting to eat overwatch for your infantry/ locking down other shooting units.)



-Slow: Not quite as big of a deal with their great range and lacking of CC weapons, they also can take objectives in your backfield.
-Slots are limitless, you just need to form your detachments around what you need. Honestly, buying units that have slots instead of dedicated transports is an advantage by itself since it allows you to get more command points. Razorbacks don't get you command points.

If you need the transports (Which I don't think we do since we should be bringing Interceptors instead of strike squads) Dreads are a good bargin.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Yeah, telling people how this and that is 'garbage' and they should just throw their minis into the trash as they're not as efficient as XYZ.

 Peregrine wrote:
So the solution is to lie and pretend that certain options are effective so people will feel better?
 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Strike Squad Grey Knight





Still noticing a lot of debate on GK special weapons, so I'm going to resurrect my mathhammer from Page 5 with added conclusions for Dreadknight weapons. The math doesn't lie people!

Methods
Spoiler:
The following averages assume:
  • your unit has moved in the preceding movement phase

  • each weapon is in range & LOS of its target

  • each weapon is attacking a unit containing multi-wound model(s)

  • each weapon is attacking a unit containing 3+ armor save(s)

  • Average Dmg and Dmg-per-Point values are calculated against Toughness 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 units

  • Infantry Melee
    Hammer (13 pts) vs. 2x Falchions (0 pts) vs. Halberd (0 pts) vs. Sword (0 pts) vs. Warding Stave (0 pts) vs. 1x Falchion (0 pts)
    Conclusion: Hammer outputs the highest Dmg. 2x Falchions output the highest Dmg-per-Point.
    Spoiler:

    Hammer ~ 0.8681 Dmg @ 0.0668 Dmg-per-Point
    2x Falchions ~ 0.6914 Dmg @ 0.6914 Dmg-per-Point
    Halberd ~ 0.4691 Dmg @ 0.4691 Dmg-per-Point
    Sword ~ 0.4321 Dmg @ 0.4321 Dmg-per-Point
    Stave ~ 0.4074 Dmg @ 0.4074 Dmg-per-Point
    1x Falchion ~ 0.3457 Dmg @ 0.3457 Dmg-per-Point

    Infantry Shooting (Marines)
    Storm Bolter (2 pts) vs. Psilencer (4 pts) vs. Psycannon (14 pts) vs. Incinerator (14 pts)
    Conclusion: Incinerator outputs the highest Dmg. Psilencer outputs the highest Dmg-per-Point. Unless you're able to get within Incinerator range (8") via movement or transport, I recommend Psilencer.
    Spoiler:

    Storm Bolter ~ 0.1728 Dmg @ 0.0864 Dmg-per-Point
    Storm Bolter (Rapid Firing) ~ 0.3457 @ 0.1728 Dmg-per-Point
    Psilencer ~ 0.7778 Dmg @ 0.1944 Dmg-per-Point
    Psycannon ~ 0.6667 Dmg @ 0.0476 Dmg-per-Point
    Incinerator ~ 1.0694 Dmg @ 0.0764 Dmg-per-Point

    Infantry Shooting (Terminators)
    Storm Bolter (2 pts) vs. Psilencer (10 pts) vs. Psycannon (20 pts) vs. Incinerator (20 pts)
    Conclusion: Incinerator outputs the highest Dmg, but because it's not in range during the turn you deep strike you're better off taking the Psilencer. Storm Bolter outputs the highest Dmg-per-Point.
    Spoiler:

    Storm Bolter ~ 0.1728 Dmg @ 0.0864 Dmg-per-Point
    Storm Bolter (Rapid Firing) ~ 0.3457 @ 0.1728 Dmg-per-Point
    Psilencer ~ 0.7778 Dmg @ 0.0778 Dmg-per-Point
    Psycannon ~ 0.6667 Dmg @ 0.0333 Dmg-per-Point
    Incinerator ~ 1.0694 Dmg @ 0.0535 Dmg-per-Point

    Dreadknight Melee
    2x Dreadfist (35 pts) vs. Dreadfist/Greatsword (35 pts) vs. Dreadfist/Greathammer (40 pts)
    Conclusion: Greathammer outputs the highest Dmg. Greatsword outputs the highest Dmg-per-Point.
    Spoiler:

    2x Dreadfist ~ 4.3210 Dmg @ 0.1235 Dmg-per-Point
    Greatsword ~ 5.8333 Dmg @ 0.1667 Dmg-per-Point
    Greathammer ~ 6.2222 Dmg @ 0.1556 Dmg-per-Point

    Dreadknight Shooting
    Gatling Psilencer (20 pts) vs. Heavy Psycannon (30 pts) vs. Heavy Incinerator (40 pts)
    Conclusion: Heavy Incinerator ouputs the highest Dmg. Gatling Psilencer outputs the highest Dmg-per-Point. Heavy Psycannon is in the middle. My recommended loadout is Heavy Psycannon + Gatling Psilencer if Draigo, Voldus, or a Grand Master are within 6".
    Spoiler:

    Gatling Psilencer ~ 1.5556 Dmg @ 0.0778 Dmg-per-Point
    Heavy Psycannon ~ 2.0000 Dmg @ 0.0667 Dmg-per-Point
    Heavy Incinerator ~ 2.1389 Dmg @ 0.0535 Dmg-per-Point


    Feel free to PM me for inquiries into specific calculations.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/07 14:16:01


     
       
    Made in us
    Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation




    Thanks Nairul for the maths! Awesome to see the raw stats on hand.

    I would add one thing. For normal squads (strike/inteceptor/purifier/etc), in order to take the heavy weapon you're also sacrificing your melee weapon on top of the storm bolter.

    So the calculations above are great in a vacuum, and I appreciate Nairul has specifically pointed out instances where the incinerator/h.incinerator outperforms the alternatives in raw numbers but that this doesn't account for the situation of range, but don't forget that in normal squads taking a heavy weapon has, I suppose, another cost. This assumes you would plan to get the squad into CC at some point (I assume this to be the case or you'd just be running psilencer purge squads...).
       
    Made in us
    Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight







    Generally if you have access to rerolls to HIT, everything is better than the Incinerator yes? Because the bottleneck for the non-flamers is the BS whereas the Incinerator will generally auto-hit on average for how many shots the other weapons get.

     SHUPPET wrote:

    wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
     
       
    Made in us
    Stalwart Strike Squad Grey Knight





    Kahor wrote:
    Thanks Nairul for the maths! Awesome to see the raw stats on hand.

    I would add one thing. For normal squads (strike/inteceptor/purifier/etc), in order to take the heavy weapon you're also sacrificing your melee weapon on top of the storm bolter.

    So the calculations above are great in a vacuum, and I appreciate Nairul has specifically pointed out instances where the incinerator/h.incinerator outperforms the alternatives in raw numbers but that this doesn't account for the situation of range, but don't forget that in normal squads taking a heavy weapon has, I suppose, another cost. This assumes you would plan to get the squad into CC at some point (I assume this to be the case or you'd just be running psilencer purge squads...).


    The only instance in which it might be wise to neglect paying for a special weapon on marine squads is if you're riding them up the field in a transport (e.g. Purifiers), such that their charge is highly probable and thus will only get one phase of shooting off.

    For Strike Squads (deep strike) or Interceptors (teleport shunt), a 9" charge is unlikely... it's a 27.8% chance to be exact. These are marines we're talking about. They die easily. Because they're probably not going to make that charge, their best chance of survival is a strong psychic/shooting offense on the turn they arrive. Thus I heavily favor the 4pt Psilencer over a 2pt Storm Bolter/Melee weapon.


    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/22 18:28:33


     
       
    Made in us
    Member of the Malleus






    I've been high on Psilencer since I first read the update.

    That being said. I want to bring up HQs again.

    Librarian w/ Storm Shield? Voldus? Neither and taking a Brotherhood Champion?

    Librarians for the points seem like an excellent choice. The rerolls from Draigo and Voldus seem great as well just not sure how they stack up point for point.

     
       
    Made in us
    Stalwart Strike Squad Grey Knight





     TheMostWize wrote:
    I've been high on Psilencer since I first read the update.

    That being said. I want to bring up HQs again.

    Librarian w/ Storm Shield? Voldus? Neither and taking a Brotherhood Champion?

    Librarians for the points seem like an excellent choice. The rerolls from Draigo and Voldus seem great as well just not sure how they stack up point for point.




  • Librarian w/ Storm Shield is okay for competitive low-point lists. Give him a Stave for that 2++ invul in combat!

  • Draigo might be too expensive for a competitive 1000 pt list, best off using a Grand Master w/ Psilencer. I believe the Grand Master w/ Psilencer outshines Voldus @ 20 pts more. Voldus is not going to be making use of all those 3 different powers in a Matched Play game (due to Psychic Focus), and RAW he can't cast Smite more than once per turn.

  • For lists over 1000 points, Draigo is a no-brainer.



  • This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/22 18:48:39


     
       
    Made in us
    Stoic Grail Knight




    For a low point list, the Brotherhood Champion is a clear standout to me. Thanks to the character rule he's safer than he looks with a glance.

    A large, mono force, Draigo and GM seem great. If you're mixing in a lot of allies though you might want to look towards a Librarian so you're not 'wasting' points on buffs you're not always using.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/22 19:14:55


     
       
    Made in us
    Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation




     TheMostWize wrote:
    I've been high on Psilencer since I first read the update.

    That being said. I want to bring up HQs again.

    Librarian w/ Storm Shield? Voldus? Neither and taking a Brotherhood Champion?

    Librarians for the points seem like an excellent choice. The rerolls from Draigo and Voldus seem great as well just not sure how they stack up point for point.


    Regarding the Brotherhood Champion, I would spend the extra 12 points and get a D6 mortal wound smite. As long as you can get him into combat (run lots of units, too many targets for your opponent to focus down) then he should do some insane damage.

    I haven't tried a Librarian with Storm Shield but on paper its a great choice (and great smite).

    Draigo's rerolls are so good if you're playing enough points. He isn't for small games unless you want to just run a funny draigo-star unit (draigo/paladin ancient/brother captain/crowe/paladins)
       
    Made in ca
    Been Around the Block



    Canada


    ++ Vanguard Detachment (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [28 PL, 532pts] ++

    + HQ +

    Tempestor Prime [2 PL, 40pts]: Chainsword, Tempestus Command Rod

    Tempestor Prime [2 PL, 40pts]: Chainsword, Tempestus Command Rod

    + Elites +

    Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 64pts]
    . 4x Tempestus Scion w/ Plasma Gun: 4x Plasma gun

    Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 64pts]
    . 4x Tempestus Scion w/ Plasma Gun: 4x Plasma gun

    Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 64pts]
    . 4x Tempestus Scion w/ Plasma Gun: 4x Plasma gun

    Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 64pts]
    . 4x Tempestus Scion w/ Plasma Gun: 4x Plasma gun

    + Dedicated Transport +

    Taurox Prime [6 PL, 98pts]: Storm Bolter, Taurox Gatling Cannon
    . Two Hot-shot Volley Guns: Hot-shot Volley Gun

    Taurox Prime [6 PL, 98pts]: Storm Bolter, Taurox Gatling Cannon
    . Two Hot-shot Volley Guns: Hot-shot Volley Gun

    ++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [44 PL, 947pts] ++

    + Elites +

    Purifier Squad [9 PL, 213pts]: Gate of Infinity
    . Knight of the Flame: Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter
    . 4x Purifier (Falchion): 4x Storm Bolter
    . 2x Purifier (Psilencer): 2x Psilencer

    Purifier Squad [9 PL, 213pts]: Gate of Infinity
    . Knight of the Flame: Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm Bolter
    . 4x Purifier (Falchion): 4x Storm Bolter
    . 2x Purifier (Psilencer): 2x Psilencer

    + Fast Attack +

    Interceptor Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: Hammerhand
    . Grey Knight (Psilencer): Psilencer
    . 4x Interceptor (Falchions): 4x Storm Bolter
    . Interceptor Justicar: Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Storm bolter

    Interceptor Squad [8 PL, 152pts]: Hammerhand
    . Grey Knight (Psilencer): Psilencer
    . 4x Interceptor (Falchions): 4x Storm Bolter
    . Interceptor Justicar: Nemesis Force Sword, Storm bolter

    + Dedicated Transport +

    Razorback [5 PL, 102pts]: Storm Bolter, Twin Assault Cannon

    Razorback [5 PL, 102pts]: Storm Bolter, Twin Assault Cannon

    ++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Questor Imperialis) [27 PL, 512pts] ++

    + Lord of War +

    Knight Crusader [27 PL, 512pts]: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer, Heavy stubber, Thermal cannon

    ++ Total: [99 PL, 1991pts] ++

    Created with BattleScribe



    Thinking of trying this combined arms force. I don't really know if I would run anything besides Astra militarum with gk due to how expensive gk are.
       
    Made in us
    Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight







    How are the purifier squads getting up the field?

     SHUPPET wrote:

    wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
     
       
    Made in gb
    Regular Dakkanaut





     Quickjager wrote:
    How are the purifier squads getting up the field?


    At a guess, inside those Razorbacks
       
    Made in gb
    Dakka Veteran




    Nairul wrote:

    For Strike Squads (deep strike) or Interceptors (teleport shunt), a 9" charge is unlikely... it's a 27.8% chance to be exact. These are marines we're talking about. They die easily. Because they're probably not going to make that charge, their best chance of survival is a strong psychic/shooting offense on the turn they arrive. Thus I heavily favor the 4pt Psilencer over a 2pt Storm Bolter/Melee weapon.


    Or, run vehicles. More precisely, Rhinos.
    Advance the Rhinos up turn 1, assault stuff turn2. Deep strike/ shunt your GK stuff turn 2

    Quite tempted to run a Strike (?!) based army. Cheapest way to get Smites and Storm Bolters on the table

    Something like this as a rough template is 1674pts

    Grand Master
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    Dreadnought w/ 2x Twin Autocannon
    Dreadnought w/ 2x Twin Autocannon
    Dreadnought w/ 2x Twin Autocannon
    Nemesis Dreadknight w/ Gat Silencer, Fists, Teleporter
    Rhino
    Rhino
    Rhino
       
    Made in us
    Stalwart Strike Squad Grey Knight





    Bartali wrote:
    Nairul wrote:

    For Strike Squads (deep strike) or Interceptors (teleport shunt), a 9" charge is unlikely... it's a 27.8% chance to be exact. These are marines we're talking about. They die easily. Because they're probably not going to make that charge, their best chance of survival is a strong psychic/shooting offense on the turn they arrive. Thus I heavily favor the 4pt Psilencer over a 2pt Storm Bolter/Melee weapon.


    Or, run vehicles. More precisely, Rhinos.
    Advance the Rhinos up turn 1, assault stuff turn2. Deep strike/ shunt your GK stuff turn 2

    Quite tempted to run a Strike (?!) based army. Cheapest way to get Smites and Storm Bolters on the table

    Something like this as a rough template is 1674pts

    Grand Master
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    Dreadnought w/ 2x Twin Autocannon
    Dreadnought w/ 2x Twin Autocannon
    Dreadnought w/ 2x Twin Autocannon
    Nemesis Dreadknight w/ Gat Silencer, Fists, Teleporter
    Rhino
    Rhino
    Rhino


    (1) If you're putting Strike Squads in Rhinos... why not instead take Purifiers for the extra Psilencer & D6 smite?
    (2) A list like this, while fun, can get outplayed easily by your opponent during his Deployment/Turn 1. He'll either avoid your Rhinos or pop them and murder the marines inside. Rhinos, I've found, are still flimsy this edition.
       
    Made in gb
    Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation




    Given our army is very elite, I feel much of the effort should be put into either tanking up units (putting them into rhinos etc...), providing target saturation (MSU, though we will struggle with this by the nature of the army) and/or alpha striking.

    I want to try and fit purifiers into my list somewhere. That D6 smite is so good in addition to CC attacks.
       
    Made in us
    Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm





    Riverside CA

    Nairul wrote:
    Bartali wrote:
    Nairul wrote:

    For Strike Squads (deep strike) or Interceptors (teleport shunt), a 9" charge is unlikely... it's a 27.8% chance to be exact. These are marines we're talking about. They die easily. Because they're probably not going to make that charge, their best chance of survival is a strong psychic/shooting offense on the turn they arrive. Thus I heavily favor the 4pt Psilencer over a 2pt Storm Bolter/Melee weapon.


    Or, run vehicles. More precisely, Rhinos.
    Advance the Rhinos up turn 1, assault stuff turn2. Deep strike/ shunt your GK stuff turn 2

    Quite tempted to run a Strike (?!) based army. Cheapest way to get Smites and Storm Bolters on the table

    Something like this as a rough template is 1674pts

    Grand Master
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    5x Strikes w/ Falchions, Psilencer
    Dreadnought w/ 2x Twin Autocannon
    Dreadnought w/ 2x Twin Autocannon
    Dreadnought w/ 2x Twin Autocannon
    Nemesis Dreadknight w/ Gat Silencer, Fists, Teleporter
    Rhino
    Rhino
    Rhino


    (1) If you're putting Strike Squads in Rhinos... why not instead take Purifiers for the extra Psilencer & D6 smite?
    (2) A list like this, while fun, can get outplayed easily by your opponent during his Deployment/Turn 1. He'll either avoid your Rhinos or pop them and murder the marines inside. Rhinos, I've found, are still flimsy this edition.

    How are they killing them off so quickly?

    Space Wolf Player Since 1989
    My First Impression Threads:
    https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727226.page;jsessionid=3BCA26863DCC17CF82F647B2839DA6E5

    I am a Furry that plays with little Toy Soldiers; if you are taking me too seriously I am not the only one with Issues.

    IEGA Web Site”: http://www.meetup.com/IEGA-InlandEmpireGamersAssociation/ 
       
    Made in us
    Stalwart Strike Squad Grey Knight





    Played five competitive Matched Play games with this 2,000 pt list and haven't lost yet. Here's my game plan:

    Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment
    (1) Knight Crusader (Rapid-fire Battle Cannon w/ Heavy Stubber, Meltagun, Stormspear Rocket Pod)
    Spearhead Detachment
    (1) Lord Kaldor Draigo
    (5) Interceptor Squad (1x Psilencer, 4x Falchion, 1x Stave, 1x Daemon Hammer)
    (5) Interceptor Squad (1x Psilencer, 6x Falchion, 1x Stave)
    (1) Nemesis Dreadknight (Teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Greathammer)
    (1) Nemesis Dreadknight (Teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Greatsword)
    (1) Nemesis Dreadknight (Teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Greatsword)
    (1) Nemesis Dreadknight (Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Greatsword)

    Warlord Trait: If playing against an opponent whose units have leadership values 9 or under, give Draigo Inspiring Leader. Otherwise give him Tenacious Survivor.
    Powers: Against MOST opponents... give every Dreadknight Gate, especially the one without Teleporter. Give both Interceptor squads Hammerhand. Give Draigo Purge Soul & Gate.
    Deployment: Knight Crusader, both Interceptor squads, and the Dreadknight without Teleporter start on the table. Other three Dreadknights & Draigo are kept in reinforcements. That's 50% on the table for Matched Play rules. This list often gets first turn.

    Your first turn is crucial.

    Turn 1 (Movement): Move Knight Crusader up the table. DO NOT move Dreadknight.
    Turn 1 (End of Movement): Examine your opponent's deployment and pick a meaty flank -- you're looking for a spot that contains high-priority targets, majority objectives, or both. Set up everything (Draigo, 3x Dreadknights, 10x Interceptors) on that flank. Find the sweet spot between 9.1" and 12" away from enemy units (12" is crucial for Smite range, Purge Soul, and Storm Bolter rapid-fire). Keep everything within 6" of Draigo. Leave room for the fourth Dreadknight.
    Turn 1 (Psychic): Order is important here. (1) Fourth Dreadknight uses Gate to join the army. (2) Draigo uses Purge -- this can target a Character! (3) All other units probably Smite. Usually Hammerhand is not necessary here, as your alpha strike will have crippled any enemy units who were close enough to charge.
    Turn 1 (Shooting): Order is still important. (1) Any units w/ Storm Bolters in rapid-fire range should shoot first. Try to split fire Psilencers into units containing multi-wound models. (2) Dreadknights shoot (one fires at normal BS, because he didn't move) -- try to target units containing multi-wound models. Everything rerolls failed Hits near Draigo. (3) Knight should prefer targets far away from your alpha strike.
    Turn 1 (Charge): By now there's probably nothing close enough to charge! But if they are, go for it.
    Rest of game: Interceptors spread out to grab objectives. One Dreadknight should neglect moving and be gated each turn towards the other flank or wherever your opponent has run. Try to cast Gate on that Dreadknight from an ally unit, so that the Dreadknight can still Smite and shoot at full BS after he's been teleported!


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Anpu42 wrote:
    How are they killing them off so quickly?


    Multi-Dmg weapons. For comparison, I've had an opponent pop my Knight Crusader (24 Wound T8 3+/5++) in his FIRST turn of shooting. And his army was only ~50% shooty. But that's Dark Eldar for you.

    This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2017/06/23 17:27:41


     
       
    Made in us
    Stoic Grail Knight




    Nairul wrote:
    Played five competitive Matched Play games with this 2,000 pt list and haven't lost yet. Here's my game plan:

    Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment
    (1) Knight Crusader (Rapid-fire Battle Cannon w/ Heavy Stubber, Meltagun, Stormspear Rocket Pod)
    Spearhead Detachment
    (1) Lord Kaldor Draigo
    (5) Interceptor Squad (1x Psilencer, 4x Falchion, 1x Stave, 1x Daemon Hammer)
    (5) Interceptor Squad (1x Psilencer, 6x Falchion, 1x Stave)
    (1) Nemesis Dreadknight (Teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Greathammer)
    (1) Nemesis Dreadknight (Teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Greatsword)
    (1) Nemesis Dreadknight (Teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Greatsword)
    (1) Nemesis Dreadknight (Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Greatsword)

    Warlord Trait: If playing against an opponent whose units have leadership values 9 or under, give Draigo Inspiring Leader. Otherwise give him Tenacious Survivor.
    Powers: Against MOST opponents... give every Dreadknight Gate, especially the one without Teleporter. Give both Interceptor squads Hammerhand. Give Draigo Purge Soul & Gate.
    Deployment: Knight Crusader, both Interceptor squads, and the Dreadknight without Teleporter start on the table. Other three Dreadknights & Draigo are kept in reinforcements. That's 50% on the table for Matched Play rules. This list often gets first turn.

    Your first turn is crucial.

    Turn 1 (Movement): Move Knight Crusader up the table. DO NOT move Dreadknight.
    Turn 1 (End of Movement): Examine your opponent's deployment and pick a meaty flank -- you're looking for a spot that contains high-priority targets, majority objectives, or both. Set up everything (Draigo, 3x Dreadknights, 10x Interceptors) on that flank. Find the sweet spot between 9.1" and 12" away from enemy units (12" is crucial for Smite range, Purge Soul, and Storm Bolter rapid-fire). Keep everything within 6" of Draigo. Leave room for the fourth Dreadknight.
    Turn 1 (Psychic): Order is important here. (1) Fourth Dreadknight uses Gate to join the army. (2) Draigo uses Purge -- this can target a Character! (3) All other units probably Smite. Usually Hammerhand is not necessary here, as your alpha strike will have crippled any enemy units who were close enough to charge.
    Turn 1 (Shooting): Order is still important. (1) Any units w/ Storm Bolters in rapid-fire range should shoot first. Try to split fire Psilencers into units containing multi-wound models. (2) Dreadknights shoot (one fires at normal BS, because he didn't move) -- try to target units containing multi-wound models. Everything rerolls failed Hits near Draigo. (3) Knight should prefer targets far away from your alpha strike.
    Turn 1 (Charge): By now there's probably nothing close enough to charge! But if they are, go for it.
    Rest of game: Interceptors spread out to grab objectives. One Dreadknight should neglect moving and be gated each turn towards the other flank or wherever your opponent has run. Try to cast Gate on that Dreadknight from an ally unit, so that the Dreadknight can still Smite and shoot at full BS after he's been teleported!


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
     Anpu42 wrote:
    How are they killing them off so quickly?


    Multi-Dmg weapons. For comparison, I've had an opponent pop my Knight Crusader (24 Wound T8 3+/5++) in his FIRST turn of shooting. And his army was only ~50% shooty. But that's Dark Eldar for you.


    Good list, good summary and kind of how I expect things to go (including Knights occasionally getting popped fast). I'm curious though, why do you forego the Avenger Gatling Cannon on the Crusader?
       
    Made in us
    Stalwart Strike Squad Grey Knight





    Audustum wrote:

    Good list, good summary and kind of how I expect things to go (including Knights occasionally getting popped fast). I'm curious though, why do you forego the Avenger Gatling Cannon on the Crusader?


    Thanks. Avenger Gatling Cannon comes default on the Crusader, so I didn't feel the need to include it in my write-up.
       
    Made in us
    Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm





    Riverside CA

    Nairul wrote:
     Anpu42 wrote:
    How are they killing them off so quickly?

    Multi-Dmg weapons. For comparison, I've had an opponent pop my Knight Crusader (24 Wound T8 3+/5++) in his FIRST turn of shooting. And his army was only ~50% shooty. But that's Dark Eldar for you.

    Ah one of those kind of list...
    Against most TAC list I keep hearing they are quite durable, your local Meta may vary though.

    Space Wolf Player Since 1989
    My First Impression Threads:
    https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727226.page;jsessionid=3BCA26863DCC17CF82F647B2839DA6E5

    I am a Furry that plays with little Toy Soldiers; if you are taking me too seriously I am not the only one with Issues.

    IEGA Web Site”: http://www.meetup.com/IEGA-InlandEmpireGamersAssociation/ 
       
    Made in us
    Stoic Grail Knight




    Nairul wrote:
    Audustum wrote:

    Good list, good summary and kind of how I expect things to go (including Knights occasionally getting popped fast). I'm curious though, why do you forego the Avenger Gatling Cannon on the Crusader?


    Thanks. Avenger Gatling Cannon comes default on the Crusader, so I didn't feel the need to include it in my write-up.


    The mistake is mine. My brain read the meltagun as the Thermal Cannon so I thought you somehow had the RFB and the Thermal without an Avenger. Derp.
       
    Made in ca
    Been Around the Block



    Canada

    Godeskian wrote:
     Quickjager wrote:
    How are the purifier squads getting up the field?


    At a guess, inside those Razorbacks


    That is exactly it.
       
     
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