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 Eldarsif wrote:
I am just wondering how they are going to justify taking an Archon when he is most likely only going to allow reroll 1s on Core units(and maybe only limited to Kabalite warriors).

I do hope they boost his combat utility and damage.

Unless ravagers are in fact core...

It is possible that they removed the army restrictions, allowing you to build a cohesive force from all 3 elements of the army, but that their HQ choices will buff only units that are considered core to their respective sub-factions. The core elements would be the units currently limited to their separate detachment sub-factions

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
It is possible that they removed the army restrictions, allowing you to build a cohesive force from all 3 elements of the army, but that their HQ choices will buff only units that are considered core to their respective sub-factions. The core elements would be the units currently limited to their separate detachment sub-factions

Yup, that's kind of what I am guessing otherwise the HQ's would only buff the troops aside from cult probably hitting reavers.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
I am just wondering how they are going to justify taking an Archon when he is most likely only going to allow reroll 1s on Core units(and maybe only limited to Kabalite warriors).

I do hope they boost his combat utility and damage.

Unless ravagers are in fact core...

Considering the past few codexes I fear we won't be seeing that.

They may work how DA codex does, archon is effectively a chapter master to warriors, captain to everything else, and the same for the leaders of the sub factions, so a wyche leader will be a chapter master to wyches and captain to everything else (or some variety of this).

Alternatively, an archon may give re-rolls to everything (other than vehicles etc as is common now) and the sub faction leaders will be lieutenant equivalents


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OR and something I would personally like to see.... They sack off the re-roll hit and wound mechanic and leave that as marines thing and they get something totally different (but obviously good).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Sooo...who is going to go buy dome DE kits and get us some leaks?

I got a brand new box of Kabalites in the mail today...

... and it's the old box, not the new one. So no fancy rules.

Not that we'd get fancy rules from such a box, merely fancy statlines.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
I am just wondering how they are going to justify taking an Archon when he is most likely only going to allow reroll 1s on Core units(and maybe only limited to Kabalite warriors).

I do hope they boost his combat utility and damage.

Unless ravagers are in fact core...

Considering the past few codexes I fear we won't be seeing that.

Extrapolating from necrons and death guard, it's fairly safe to assume that anything that is not an actual eldar walking or riding a bike, it's very unlikely to get CORE unless it's a dread equivalent. Tranports, tanks and characters definitely will not get it.
I don't know DE well, but I'm sure that things like ravagers, voidraven bombers, cronos or clawed fiends won't be CORE, while wyches, kabilites, scourges or reavers are guaranteed to get it.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
I am just wondering how they are going to justify taking an Archon when he is most likely only going to allow reroll 1s on Core units(and maybe only limited to Kabalite warriors).

I do hope they boost his combat utility and damage.

Unless ravagers are in fact core...

Considering the past few codexes I fear we won't be seeing that.

Extrapolating from necrons and death guard, it's fairly safe to assume that anything that is not an actual eldar walking or riding a bike, it's very unlikely to get CORE unless it's a dread equivalent. Tranports, tanks and characters definitely will not get it.
I don't know DE well, but I'm sure that things like ravagers, voidraven bombers, cronos or clawed fiends won't be CORE, while wyches, kabilites, scourges or reavers are guaranteed to get it.

Talos might see CORE keyword if GW considers it Dreadnought equivalent. I won't be keeping my hopes up though.


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 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

OR and something I would personally like to see.... They sack off the re-roll hit and wound mechanic and leave that as marines thing and they get something totally different (but obviously good).

I actually think we might see a +1 to Wound on Splinter Poison weapons. It would be different and actually add some lethality to Drukhari. Don't Deathwatch get similar with their SIA? A +1 to only CORE would limit it to units that have up until now not posed much of a threat, but wounding on a 3+ and the weight of fire might change that.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
I am just wondering how they are going to justify taking an Archon when he is most likely only going to allow reroll 1s on Core units(and maybe only limited to Kabalite warriors).

I do hope they boost his combat utility and damage.

Unless ravagers are in fact core...

Considering the past few codexes I fear we won't be seeing that.

Extrapolating from necrons and death guard, it's fairly safe to assume that anything that is not an actual eldar walking or riding a bike, it's very unlikely to get CORE unless it's a dread equivalent. Tranports, tanks and characters definitely will not get it.
I don't know DE well, but I'm sure that things like ravagers, voidraven bombers, cronos or clawed fiends won't be CORE, while wyches, kabilites, scourges or reavers are guaranteed to get it.

Talos might see CORE keyword if GW considers it Dreadnought equivalent. I won't be keeping my hopes up though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

OR and something I would personally like to see.... They sack off the re-roll hit and wound mechanic and leave that as marines thing and they get something totally different (but obviously good).

I actually think we might see a +1 to Wound on Splinter Poison weapons. It would be different and actually add some lethality to Drukhari. Don't Deathwatch get similar with their SIA? A +1 to only CORE would limit it to units that have up until now not posed much of a threat, but wounding on a 3+ and the weight of fire might change that.

Maybe as a doctrine esq ability for a specific Kabal maybe, and yes Deathwatch do get this. However as an overall special rule I doubt it, as well, they may as well have just made splinter weapons wound on 3+ instead.

I assume the interaction and special rules will come from power from pain and combat drugs etc etc. I personally, think power from pain is a good enough working ground of special rules to not need the re-roll mechanic from HQ's. Obviously, power from pain would need to be tweaked etc to be more potent, but it would be nice to see leaders of some factions that aren't hanging around being supporting characters and instead being whirlwind death machines leading from the front and not really caring for their followers as long as their goals are completed (as well, an archon wouldn't really care would they, they don't care who dies as long as they get their reward from a raid).

They should just copy almost wholesale the "Power from Pain" table from Daughters of Khaine. That is a glasshammer army done right in my opinion even if it is showing its age.

 Eldarsif wrote:
Talos might see CORE keyword if GW considers it Dreadnought equivalent. I won't be keeping my hopes up though.

Reading up on its fluff, almost definitely not. Craftworld warwalkers or ork deff dreads might have chance of becoming core, but these things are more similar to daemon engines or destroyers than to dreads.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
Talos might see CORE keyword if GW considers it Dreadnought equivalent. I won't be keeping my hopes up though.

Reading up on its fluff, almost definitely not. Craftworld warwalkers or ork deff dreads might have chance of becoming core, but these things are more similar to daemon engines or destroyers than to dreads.

It does illustrate a problem with Drukhari. If haemonculus only buffs CORE <Covens>(I am guessing) then it's going to be Wrack and Grots and nothing else.

Of course we might get a buffet and each HQ buffs all CORE(Cult, Kabal, and Covens) with different boosts. That would be kinda awesome.

It's not like that's much different from how DG or necrons work.

A haemonculus could just be buffing <Coven> units, like the Skorpekh Lord buffs all destroyers cult units.

 Jidmah wrote:
It's not like that's much different from how DG or necrons work.

A haemonculus could just be buffing <Coven> units, like the Skorpekh Lord buffs all destroyers cult units.

Which means that the overall lethality of those HQ needs to be buffed considerably to make them useful. Which we might see. The current usefulness of HQs in Drukhari is woefully inadequate for the task. At least with the big DG and Necron Lords I can actually get some use out of them during the battle as they are not purely just buff bots.

At this point they kind of need to reinvent these HQs instead of just making them cheaper and cheaper.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
It's not like that's much different from how DG or necrons work.

A haemonculus could just be buffing <Coven> units, like the Skorpekh Lord buffs all destroyers cult units.

Which means that the overall lethality of those HQ needs to be buffed considerably to make them useful. Which we might see. The current usefulness of HQs in Drukhari is woefully inadequate for the task. At least with the big DG and Necron Lords I can actually get some use out of them during the battle as they are not purely just buff bots.

At this point they kind of need to reinvent these HQs instead of just making them cheaper and cheaper.

It may be a nice idea to allow say, a haemonculus and succubus without taking up a HQ slot if you take an Archon (though with the option to take them by themselves, or be allowed to take up a HQ slot also if that is your choice). If they did go down that route, so you don't run out of HQ slots but allows you to still access the special sauce HQ's if you want.

Yeah, I have no clue what you are talking about, I was just trying to help by pointing out the patters of the codices we already have.
Honestly, I'm mostly reading this thread to find out if they manage to do DE well, because that's going to have implications on what orks are going to get.

I do I wish you the best of luck with your codex. The DG one is really fun to play and I absolutely wish that everyone gets a codex like that, especially all the xenos.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

It may be a nice idea to allow say, a haemonculus and succubus without taking up a HQ slot if you take an Archon (though with the option to take them by themselves, or be allowed to take up a HQ slot also if that is your choice). If they did go down that route, so you don't run out of HQ slots but allows you to still access the special sauce HQ's if you want.

This is literally the opposite of the problem DE have.

Dark Eldar aren't suffering because they can't take enough HQs.

They're suffering because their HQs are, collectively, a complete waste of space.

 vipoid wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

It may be a nice idea to allow say, a haemonculus and succubus without taking up a HQ slot if you take an Archon (though with the option to take them by themselves, or be allowed to take up a HQ slot also if that is your choice). If they did go down that route, so you don't run out of HQ slots but allows you to still access the special sauce HQ's if you want.

This is literally the opposite of the problem DE have.

Dark Eldar aren't suffering because they can't take enough HQs.

They're suffering because their HQs are, collectively, a complete waste of space.

Pretty much this. In the current codex if I would get the option of not taking HQ I would not take any HQs. I think Urien and Haemie come closest to being useful as they increase the strength(Urien) and Toughness(all haemies) which I do find useful in certain Coven builds.

the_scotsman wrote:Weirdly, when GW does represent "scientific" type units, they tend to be more random and less precise abilities than space wizards channeling the powers of turbo hell to shoot lightning out of their nipples.

The haemonculus is almost unique in the fact that it is a science-y character and the benefits he provides are not random and have no chance to instantly kersplode the things he's buffing.

It is a weird pattern. Is it thematic, that in 40k, science will always be unreliable and unpredictable whereas psychic powers are more powerful and dependable? Or is it merely bad game design? I think we all know which.

vipoid wrote:If DE HQs get saddled with no options beyond the single, garbage loadouts in their kits, I think I'll take an extended break from this hobby.

Likewise. At least the haemonculi having access to borderline interesting stuff like hexrifles back when I still played the game meant I liked using them even if they were never that good in game.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:Weirdly, when GW does represent "scientific" type units, they tend to be more random and less precise abilities than space wizards channeling the powers of turbo hell to shoot lightning out of their nipples.

The haemonculus is almost unique in the fact that it is a science-y character and the benefits he provides are not random and have no chance to instantly kersplode the things he's buffing.

It is a weird pattern. Is it thematic, that in 40k, science will always be unreliable and unpredictable whereas psychic powers are more powerful and dependable? Or is it merely bad game design? I think we all know which.

All the science types are stereotypical "mad scientist" tropes so I guess GW wanted the randomness. Maybe they are also concerned that people might try to min-max if they got to choose the science upgrade (even though they let people pick from other tables).

I suppose the Tau are the only non-mad scientists in 40k, in their eyes.

Iracundus wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:Weirdly, when GW does represent "scientific" type units, they tend to be more random and less precise abilities than space wizards channeling the powers of turbo hell to shoot lightning out of their nipples.

The haemonculus is almost unique in the fact that it is a science-y character and the benefits he provides are not random and have no chance to instantly kersplode the things he's buffing.

It is a weird pattern. Is it thematic, that in 40k, science will always be unreliable and unpredictable whereas psychic powers are more powerful and dependable? Or is it merely bad game design? I think we all know which.

All the science types are stereotypical "mad scientist" tropes so I guess GW wanted the randomness. Maybe they are also concerned that people might try to min-max if they got to choose the science upgrade (even though they let people pick from other tables).

If GW were at all ever concerned about Min Maxing we wouldn't get the broken garbage we get in the first place.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I suppose the Tau are the only non-mad scientists in 40k, in their eyes.

Is that really that wrong?

Well I'd say Necrons also have some pretty reliable science too, but yea DEldar should have pretty non random science as well I'd say.

But but but guys forge the narrative because randumb is fun

 Red Corsair wrote:
Well I'd say Necrons also have some pretty reliable science too, but yea DEldar should have pretty non random science as well I'd say.

You mean the rase that enslaved and repositioned suns?

So the blast pistol and blaster are unchanged (depending on what special rules they have). Shredder up to 18" (edited because I missed that). Splinter rifle and pistol has strength 2, which I'm not sure affects anything? Lowest toughness I'm aware of is a gretchin with 2, and I don't think any vehicles have a tough of 3. I have to assume there is something in the poison rule that interacts with this that makes it actually matter. The agoniser is back to matching the AP of the power sword (which it always should have), so the poison rules and points will see if it is ever a better choice.

Wyches do go up an attack like the warriors did, which I expected but is still nice. All of the wych weapons got better ap except the razor flails (and power sword of course, but that is hardly a wytch weapon). Depending on how the special rules for them work out, wyches may actually be in a good spot.

Banbaji wrote:
So the blast pistol and blaster are unchanged (depending on what special rules they have). Shredder up to 18" (edited because I missed that). Splinter rifle and pistol has strength 2, which I'm not sure affects anything? Lowest toughness I'm aware of is a gretchin with 2, and I don't think any vehicles have a tough of 3. I have to assume there is something in the poison rule that interacts with this that makes it actually matter. The agoniser is back to matching the AP of the power sword (which it always should have), so the poison rules and points will see if it is ever a better choice.

Wyches do go up an attack like the warriors did, which I expected but is still nice. All of the wych weapons got better ap except the razor flails (and power sword of course, but that is hardly a wytch weapon). Depending on how the special rules for them work out, wyches may actually be in a good spot.

I believe Spore Mines are T1. Given the rather low S values being given to the splinter weapons I'm not sure what value they could possibly have.

I think strenght value is used when shooting any model with keyword "vehicle"