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So I've played warhammer 40k games before but never owned my own miniatures, so I'm going to make myself a small 750 army to play with friends, then possibly upgrade to 1k and higher if it suits me. Here's my possible layout I researched tell me if it's decent. I chose

Daemon Prince x 1(110), Mark of Slaanesh(5) + Warptime(25) = 140 pt
Possessed Chaos Space Marine x 5(130), Champion(10), Icon of Khorne(30) = 170 pt
Khorne Berzerkers x 8(168), Champion(15), power fist(25), meltabombs(5) = 212 pt
Chaos Havok x 5(75), missle launcher x 2(40), autocannon x 2(40) = 155 pt
Obliterator Cult x 1 = 75 pt

TOTAL: 752 pt.

I know it's only 20 units, but that seems like a decent ammount considering it's chaos, and it's only 750 pt army

You need a second troop choice and make the Daemon Prince have a mark of Khorne and maybe a personal Icon for the Champion of the Khorne Berzerkers.

Crap! two troops! I forgot, if I make the Daemon Prince use mark of Khorne then he can't use Warptime, which seemed to be a very useful skill, what exactly does the Personal Icon do for the champion? I'm still mastering my Codex, sorry.

The Personal Icon will allow you to deep strike the obliterator more accurately if you want to deep strike it at some point and for only 5 pts its not breaking the bank if you don't use it every game. I like the more accurate deep strike simply because it doesn't leave room for something bad to happen to the deep striking unit I mean spend 5 pts to save 75 pts I don't know how your luck is but if its as bad as mine then it's worth the 5 pts lol!

Well, welcome to the forums. Here's my opinion...

You're running a Khorne list so anything BUT mark of khorne is just wrong. So, with that in mind, let's start this off.

Your troops should consist of two squads of Khorne Berzerkers. I'd say 8 each with a Power fist/SC.

Your HQ NEEDS to be a DP in a 750 list, especially a khorne one, IMO. So, DP with Wings and Mark of Khorne is what should be your HQ, unless you'd prefer Kharn...

Possessed are USELESS. They never EVER will earn their points back and are just crap. Toss them out. Even if you like the look of the model, if you ever want to win a game, they can't be there.

Havocs and Obliterators don't go so well in a Khorne list. You're better off with a Vindicator or somethign that won't be easily taken out in a 750 list...

Here's a list I think you'd be better off with...


Daemon Prince - 140
Mark of Khorne
Wings (It lets you get this bad boy into CC)

8 Khorne Berzerkers - 243
Skull Champion - Power Fist
Chaos Rhino Transport

8 Khorne Berzerkers - 243
Skull Champion - Power Fist
Chaos Rhino Transport

Chaos Vindicator - 125

Total = 751

Now, this looks weird to most. Firstly, Khorne's magic number is 8 so this is perfectly fluffy. You now have stuff that HAS to be hit with heavy weapons to be hurt, which is hard to do in a 750 list. You vindicator is able to shoot out beautiful pie plates, the berzerkers move up the field, pull out of the Rhino's, and charge whoever you just came into. The DP moves behind the Rhinos, and thanks to the Wings, is now able to move 12 inches and match the speed of the Rhinos.

not a bad list you may want to drop the havocs for noise marines a troops choice and better guns imo the demon prince is a good choice but id go with lash of submission pull things out of cover so your noise marines can shoot em up also causes pinning wich never hurts obliterators are fun but maybe overkill at 750 its 10% of you pts in one model would probably up the berserkers 10 guys and give the champ a power weapon instead of the fist since your not really going to worry about vehichles this amount of points

REVISED!!!! (This one's better I think)


Daemon Prince x 1(110), Mark of Khorne (10) = 120 pt
Possessed Chaos Space Marine x 5(130), Champion(10), Icon of Khorne(30) = 170 pt
Khorne Berzerkers x 5(105), Champion(15), power fist(25), Personal Icon (5) meltabombs(5) = 160 pt
Khorne Berzerkers x 5(105), Champion(15), power fist(25), Personal Icon (5) meltabombs(5) = 160 pt
Chaos Havok x 5(75), missle launcher x 2(40), autocannon x 1(20), Meltagun x1 (10) = 145 pt

Total 755 pt

Please tell me if this one is a suitable 750 pt army? I think it's okay, but I thought that of the last one too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alright, so the possessed Chaos suck? I was wondering they came for free in the starter pack so I assumed I'd better use them to save myself some money from buying others. I'll just invest in more Beserkers

the only problem with khorne prince is he usually gets shot to the warp before he hits cc even with wings and other than for fluff there is no reason to stick with one mark a slaaneshi prince with lash is going to be able to at least shoot stuff b4 he gets in to cc at 750 my list would probably look like this

demon prince mark of slaanesh wings lash of submisson 145

berzerkers 10 man sc power weapon melta bombs 245

noise marines 10 man nc power weapon doom siren 1 blastmaster 9 sonic blasters 330

rhino for the berzerkers 35

755
the noise marines do double duty not only can they kill meq the can take out any vehicle except raiders also initiative 5 before charging means they will always hit first or at least at the same time and the iniative 6 dp usually kills any others since it swings first

On your redo list give the Daemon Prince wing and take out the Possessed and Havocs for a Vindicator with Extra Armour and 2 obliterators.

I really wanted to keep the Havok heavy assault units, are they overall that non-useful? I thought the missle launchers and stuff would be good range weaponry, I'm avoiding all tanks for now besides maybe rhino's also, If I'm going to buy tanks I was going to get Chaos Land Raiders or nothing, and since I'm only doing 750 pts. I was going to wait on that

you can always convert the possesed in to berzerkers or whatever the powerfists are a waste on berzerkers imo since your giving up the benift of furios charge to attack at initiative 1 tere good for killing tanks but meltabombs are cheaper and better at it other than that not a bad list youll get a feel for what works for you the more you play id suggest trying all the different options before settling on one

Alright thanks Kharnflakes, I think I finally figured out my final setup that I'm going to work towards obtaining, then I guess I'll learn from there. I'll drop Power Fist's for Power Weapons


Automatically Appended Next Post:
RE REVISED!!!!

Daemon Prince(110) + Mark of Slaneesh(5)+Lash of Submission(25) = 135

(#1)Khorne Berzerkers x 8(168) + Champion(15) + Power Weapon(15) + Personal Icon(5) + Meltabomb(5) +Rhino(35) = 243

(#2)Khorne Berzerkers x 8(168) + Champion(15) + Power Weapon(15) + Personal Icon(5) + Meltabomb(5) +Rhino(35) = 243

Chaos Havok x 5(75) + Missle Launcher x 2(40) + Meltagun x 2(20) = 135

Total = 756

this is my final attempt at revising my original, how does this sound?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
anyone?

My only tip, since this isn't a KHORNE list, don't call it as such. It's like hearing a LoS list a 'Nurgle List'.

Also, those havocs are practically useless. Infantry anti-tank is practically useless in 5th ed, IMO, especially Chaos Havocs. THose guys have big guns, but a few shots from a predator or something will destroy them in one turn, rendering them useless.

Plus, on the havocs, you have meltaguns and missile launchers. If they fire the missiles, you can't move at all. If you want to use the meltas, you have to be within 12", 6" if you want it against a tank.

If you're really keen on the havocs, give them all ML and pull points away from this by taking LoS off your DP. It's not usefull in a 750 list.

If you are not going to run a DP that has the mark of khorne then just run Kharn the Betrayer. He is really good.

Also take those PF's off of the Champion and give him a Power Weapon. If you attack something with more than a Toughness of 5 then you shouldn't be charging.

You are strength 5 on the charge with a power sword and with a power fist you are swining at init 1. Believe me you are going to find times when that Power Fist never gets to swing.

On another note. With each model taking a save that Champion is not safe. So even taking 1 wound from bolters could mean you lose him. The less points put into him the best. You should however have a melta bomb on him if you go Power Weapon.

Keep the powerfists...

Run this is you want havocs, otherwise run Lorgar's

DP - 140
MoK; Wings

2x
Berserker Squad - 227
7x; Skull Champion; PF; Rhino; Combi-Bolter

Havoc Squad - 155
5x; 4x meltaguns; rhino; combi-bolter

to Kharn below - Why would followers of Khorne be led by a follower of Slaanesh? Thats like the Democrats being led by a Republican, it doesn't make sense.

Kharn the Betrayer is great, just send him in alone. He can rip whole squads up by himself, but you have to be smart about it. Don't send him into a unit with a bunch of PF's or PW's or is a MC or like a unit of 20 boys (I did this once and took no wounds for 2 turns and once the boys dropped below 11, I sweeping advanced them when they ran) send him into that annoying deathcompany or the Grey Knights (not the terminators, even though he could have a good chance of ripping a whole squad by himself)

The powerfist is good for the berzerkers to crack walkers and high toughness units that will try to lock you in combat. Without the fist, you will be locked with a dreadnought or something.

Your havocs can be useful in certain circumstances, but you have their weapons sorta all over the place. The meltagun's range is only 12", and the missile launcher is 48", so they most likely won't be able to fire together, especially since the melta is "assault" and the missile is "heavy".

Lorgar's list is a good "Khorne" list if that's what you want. If you just want a "Chaos" list, then feel free to swap around whatever you want.

kharn really dont get me wrong i think he was good in 4th in 5th hes a liablity since you have to put him in a squad if you dont want him to die before he sees cc and then he usually does as much damage to your squad as the enemy . and logar how does not running a khorne prince make it not a khorne list ? koski that list looks fine id give the prince wings but thats up to you also i dont like havocs that much but once again your choice good luck with the list and happy hunting

Kharnflakes is suggesting an acceptable Chaos List, but not a Khorne list. From a fluff point of view, you should NOT have any Marks or Icons other than Khorne, and from a gameplay point of view, you don't NEED any. While a Lash Prince can be nice, the Lash is only highly competitive when it is getting a lot of use, such as when accompanied by lots of template death. It's not something you need at 750, and trust me...


If you disrespect Khorne by throwing Lash Princes and the like into His Army Lists willy-nilly, he will curse you, and you will roll bad.


You can put in a Lash Prince or some Noise Marines, but don't call it Khorne.


Lorgar's suggested list is right on the money, and if you don't want any vehicles, you can drop the rhinos and vindi for two Oblits, 7 more zerks, another DP, or even those havocs you want, though I would not recommend it without meltas or flamers and a rhino.

Alright, I realize the error of my ways and that's why I've spent a lot of time thinking and reading some stuff. Here's what I think will be a great final list, thanks to a lot of comments, and personal choice.

Kharne the Betrayer (165)
165
Berzerkers x 8 (168)
Skull Champion + Power Weapon + Meltabomb + Personal Icon (+40)
Rhino + Combi-flamer (+45)
253
Berzerkers x 8 (168)
Skull Champion + Power Weapon + Meltabomb + Personal Icon (+40)
Rhino + Combi-flamer (+45)
253
Obliterator Cult x 1 (75)
75

TOTAL: 746

So I realized you were right about needing to be a follower of Khorne and I stopped being a wimp and poser and picked up Kharne himself.
I believe I can deep strike my Obliterator if I want to help me in situations because all my units have icon.
I didn't believe that I would run into many tanks at a 750 pt level, so the meltabomb's, and the obliterator's abilities seemed enough.
Rhino's have flamers to help when getting close with Berzerkers to drop
And I can use Kharne to flank them from a different side of my other military, or just wait back until I need to "unleash" him, and hope he kills mostly enemies.

I think I did okay, and this is the first list I feel okay about, comments on this one? Any major holes?

I would've done a MoK Termie Lord with a Daemon wep, but that's expensive and your only at 750 pts so far lol

Read up on my CSM Questions thread, there's a LOT of heplful hints on how to build a chaos army, especially a Khornate army.

As per your list, that lone obliterator probably wont last long. It is a good choice, just in case by some miracle that your opponent fields a high-AV vehicle, like how I know the IG can, with their AV14/13/11 LR variants. And you have alot of CC, which is verrrry good at small points, as your opponent more than likely wont have many troops (they either focus on troop flooding, or get the bare minimum and try to get heavy weapons or vehicles in)

It's pretty standard for a 750 list the question is how are you going to expand the list? I would suggest a Khorne Daemon Prince and more Berzerkers of course and maybe a land raider or two!

solid list the only thing im a lil worried about is kharn and the size of the squads belive me he was one of my favorite models when i started playing about a year ago and he is good but he was best when you could run him next to a squad so he couldnt get shot and then assault with him he does almost as much damage to you as he does to them i wouldnt field him now except in a apocalypse game you can run a
chaos lord mark of khorne daemon weapon combi weapon plasma pistol and melta bombs 170pts
that with what you already have should put you at 751

I went with Kharne because I believe that if I make a khorne 1500 pt set, I'd definately want to include Kharne, I don't actually own any minitures yet, so this list will be my first, I was trying to get squads I could expand on.

understandable kharn is a decent model and one of my favorites i used him all the time when i first started a big part of that though was the person i played with love using tzentchian armies so the big fu to psychic powers was always fun. that said if you want to build off of your current list the lord would probably be a better choice same price money wise a bit more pts wise but that depends on what you put on him pound for pound the lord wins though more potential attacks 17 max 12 average and i have gone an entire league with out rolling ones and have had him wipe entire squads by himself (ah the joys of watching the slaughter)sorry off topic any way though he is a better hq to expand on this is only advice and your free to use it or not but like i said earlier try using everything get a feel for their rules and have fun

Look stop being a coward with Kharn! It's what he does. You have to roll a 1 for this and unless you are rolling 1's left and right you ok. Also and this is very important. You can detach him from the squad and then still charge the same unit. This way you are not hurting your unit. Once combat is down and he is within 2 inches he auto joins that squad.

So play smart when you use him. You don't have to take those wounds if you do it right.

actually read his rules he hits any friendly unit in the same combat not the same squad if it was that simple he wouldnt have the rule and its not being a coward its being smart why am i gonna help my opponent kill me and the lord outshines kharn in a million different ways that he can pour out 3x the amount of power weapon attacks apparently means nothing to you though kharn is decent hes fluffy but hes not gonna win games in 5e sorry just how it is numbers wise it is more likely to roll a 1 on 6 dice than 2 and if you do roll poorly i think you would rather take one wound then multiple no save wounds on 1 wound models being as you need your army alive to win unless you are a person who plays to play and not to win in that case might i suggest monopoly or perhaps chutes and ladders?!

Kharnflakes, way to lay down the pwn. Although the children's boardgames were a lil much

But yes, other than that, everything you said is pretty much true...

Kharn: 165 points for 5 base +1 for charge attacks that hit on 2's with no save, and has 3 wounds at 3+ armor and 5+ invuln


Terminator Lord w/ MoK and Daemon Weapon: 155 points for 4 base +1 charge +2d6 attacks at WS6, no saves, and also 3 wounds, but at 2+ armor and a 5+ invuln... YOU SAVE 10 POINTS

Regular Lord w/ MOK and Daemon Weapon and TL Bolter: 145 for 4 base +1 charge +2d6 attacks at WS6, no saves, and also 3 wounds at 3+ armor with no invuln save... YOU SAVE 20 POINTS

Need I say more on how Kharn isn't all too great in 5e in comparison to the Chaos Lord?

You have to keep in mind as well that Kharn risks killing a couple 21 point berzerkers around him while in an assault, but the lord risks killing himself.

The points you lose when rolling a one are considerably higher with Lords equipped with Daemon Weapons. Kharn also has the advantage of being able to take down MCs and vehicles far more effectively than a regular Chaos Lord, thanks to his bonuses to st and 2d6 armor penetration.

Think of it this way:

A Lord has to roll three ones (and is rolling 2d6 with MoK) to lose all his wounds to himself, and you are out 140+ pts. Even losing one wound is effectively reducing his points value by a third, which is worth at least two berzerkers.
To lose that many points with Kharn, you would have to roll about 7 ones.

That said, at points totals this low, either one is a huge risk, and I would recommend a DP as your HQ. You can get a winged DP w/MoK for cheaper than a DW Lord OR Kharn.

Ignoring all of this, take the Warptime Prince. It's actually useful. Taking a different mark is no more or less "fluffy" just because it's worded differently in the book. Your little guy isn't really using the powers of a dark god, you're simulating that in a miniatures game so use whatever you want.

Your first list is ok minus the possessed for your other troop choice, and Oblitz are probably better than Havocs. I personally like equipping Havocs for assault (4 Flamers is 20 points and more effective vs. hordes than 'zerkers). Kharn is fun and kind of effective. That's about it. Chaos Lords kills themselves, though I had an entire CSM squad get wiped by one in a single round of combat on Monday. I assaulted him the next turn and he promptly killed himself.

Always be sure to have some long-range support and throw in Power Fists where possible.

Fluff-wise, I tend to be fairly flexible with counts-as rules.

For example, I think it is ridiculous to lead a Khorne army with a Lash Prince or a Tzeentch Sorceror, because the presence of the mark is directly in opposition to the ways of Khorne. At this point, it doesn't necessarily ruin the rules for fluff in general, but it is no longer what you can call a Khorne army.

However, giving a DP warptime to lead your Khorne army is different. In the Warhammer 40k world, Psychic abilities manifest themselves in all sorts of ways - such as the latent psychic powers of Orks that strengthen them through sheer aggression. Therefore, if my DP with no mark has Warptime, clearly it isn't really a psychic power, but a latent bloodrage that makes him more deadly up close. He doesn't suffer a perils of the warp attack when he fails his psychic test, but the blood rage has become so overpowering that he injures himself in his fury.

You can even take this farther, and model your tzeentch DP with thick brass armour and flames or smoke coming from his mouth, to represent that invul save and your nifty flamer-template Wind of Chaos 'psychic power', although I personally hold myself to a higher standard than that.

I would like to point out that I have about equal luck with the Warptime Prince and the MoK prince in most battles, as that psychic test can occasionally mess things up, and you have fewer attacks with Warptime.