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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka



Chicago, Illinois

With GW leaning toward releasing more and more expansion the rules for 5th per additional supplements now get more involved every time; in a few months I will be able to play a City Fight, Apocalypse , Planetstrike, added to my Planetary Empires game. I for one am thrilled the more rules the better but will it become too excessive and burdened with additional rules etc?

The only next logical step I can see for GW is to release a direct roleplaying supplement for tracking experience of units and them gaining abilities.


Do people want this? A return to superweapons, multiple rule sets etc? Or is it to much the rule of KISS keep it simple stupid apply?



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Camouflaged Zero






Australia

I think I missed something. Those suppliments contained rules? I thought they were guidelines to aid the players in designing their own rules for the game.

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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Don't be intentionally obtuse. Of course they contain rules.

   
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Camouflaged Zero






Australia

``Guidelines''. They use that word themselves when referring to those books, within the books themselves. I do not have them on hand to provide quotes, and I am not trying to start an argument, but they are sets of guidelines for using Warhammer 40,000 Core Rules in different scenarios.

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Baltimore, MD

Elric of Grans wrote:``Guidelines''. They use that word themselves when referring to those books, within the books themselves. I do not have them on hand to provide quotes, and I am not trying to start an argument, but they are sets of guidelines for using Warhammer 40,000 Core Rules in different scenarios.


They also contain formations, scenarios, changes to the FOC, and enough highly specific guidelines to allow for new games without any new house rules or input. They're rules, whether GW calls them that or not. While house rules for COD or Apoc are more common than for standard 40k, it's still very easy to play either supplement out of the book with the rules provided. Like HBMC said, there's no reason to be intentionally obtuse about it.

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Made in us
Implacable Black Templar Initiate




Poconos, PA

The new scenarios are great additions to the game but they are just that, Scenarios. Basically just different types of games with different rules, nothing that really affects the game long term imo. Its more along the lines of what kind of game you want to play? Capture Point, Annihilation, Cities of Death, Planetstrike, etc.

I think they are trying to keep the "core" rulebook simple and streamlined and then have expansions that add additional more complex rules but are "optional" to use. They seem to keep things down to only a few things to add into the game play (For example, Apoc adds formations and assets while Cities of Death add Stratagems). The real comes to having to think differently; Apoc requires you to think on a much larger scale of a battle, Cities of Death requires you to think about getting around a battleground that is covered in terrain, Planetstrike will make you think about the different roles of attacker and defender. I say more options the better and as long as each expansion keeps a different theme and different game play experiences then I say bring them on. With the 40k universe, there are ton of game play types that could be explored and each bring their own rules and experiences with them.

As per units gaining experience and the such. I don't see Games Workshop doing anything of that nature anytime soon. They seem to be staying away from campaign settings and long term game play. The best you could use is the veteran skill examples they have in the big rule book.

As for what I would like to see in an expansion, I would love to see some interior fighting games. Battling inside of ships and within underground bases and tunnels just sounds like a cool concept. Too bad getting the "terrain" to do such of a thing would be either impossible or cost an arm and a leg (maybe even a boltgun).

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






I really wish they would finally create a solid, sustainable, balanced set of campaign rules. I'd really love to see that as opposed to what I consider basically overgrown battle missions.

I think it would add a very different dimension to the game that would make for a nice change of pace. Then again, I still think Necromunda is the best game GW has ever made.

 
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






Southeastern PA, USA

I think the analogy is wrong. RT was a skirmishy, pseudo-roleplaying game that focused on unit and character details moreso than setting. Fifth edition is a larger-sized, streamlined game that has a number of setting options. Both may have complexities, but they're different types of complexities.

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Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Just because there are optional rules doesn't mean that you have to use them. When was the last time you went to a RT tournament and had to deal with apocalypse rules?

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka



Chicago, Illinois

Oh dont get me wrong I love the rules and the new expansions I was just thinking if people thought it was to much with GW focusing on releasing plastic kits such as the BaneBlade which is only used in Apoc.

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






I think this is an example of the two styles of gamers in a tabletop-wargame type situation. One craves difinitive rules from an authoritative source, the other is less interested in that sort of thing and more interested in "having a good game." Please note that the first type also wants a good game, they simply need limitations- many, MANY great artists have been of this first ilk. For instance, J. Mascias of Dinsaur Jr. hates alternate tunings for his guitar because it allows for limitless combinations.

This somantical discussion shows what I mean: one player calls them rules, another calls them guidelines. In reality, the only rules that exist are the ones you and your opponent agree too.

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Made in us
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot




Dallas, TX

I like the fact that there are supplements to enrich the game. I think they've got a great idea; release a streamlined core game to allow for the bulk of games to be played quickly and easily, then also release variants for people who are looking for something niche or different. I'd love to see a dedicated campaign book, too, and a book chock full of cool template mission types, or even a HUGE expanded table of mission and deployment parameters. Just like the core set, but many times as large, so you could play hundreds of games, all balanced and fun, but none the same. Perhaps even throw in optional Victory Conditions, and Secret Objectives like I've heard about from previous editions. Pretty much any tweak that can make it interesting, and provide some variety that will inevitably shake up the meta-game, making certain units more valuable, and others less game-breaking.

Variety is the spice of life, and gaming, as it happens. I like the new 3x3 random mission/deployment, but I'd rather see it be 64x64, y'know? At the end of the day, I'm a gamer with a budget on both my money and my time. I'll spend some money to get a great product that will save me the time of creating and testing scenarios on my own, but, obviously, not everyone would, so it only makes sense as an expansion book.

For another example, some people really like the super-complicated building and terrain rules of Cities of Death, some people wouldn't want to bother with them. If they build them into the core rules, they'll get complaints from one half, and if they leave them out, complaints from the other. Sure-fire solution? Do both. Make them optional. This becomes a business trifecta with the fact that they can sell another book to the players who want it.

Good for us, good for them. Win/win.



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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka



Chicago, Illinois

Definitely but alas I am not super inventive nor a game designer; I view it like MTG you have this core set of rules and then each expansion introduces new rules etc..


I would love to do a xp gain campaign etc.. or even rules for Alien worlds with different scenearios etc..


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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





GW is trying to keep the 'core' 40k game as a stand-alone, and I think that is just to satisfy the tourney gamer.

All the extra supplements scream, at least to me, 'hey this is fun stuff, but it's play-tested even less than our usual stuff and may not anywhere close to balanced. have at it.'

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