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This is a thread where you rant and rave about upgrades, specifically the ones you have to be crazy to give to your troops
for example rending claws on a carnifex

I'll vote for the bolter-stake crossbow combi weapon in the WH dex. It is like 20 points and almost useless

Gruesome Talismans and Soul Seeker ammunition for Dark Eldar. Yes let me outnumber you in 5th Ed and re-roll str 3 ap 5 shots. Horrible Wargear

Ripper swarm base upgrades for the Carnifex?

Ork Warboss with shoota and as many Ammo Runts as possible

barlio wrote:Ripper swarm base upgrades for the Carnifex?

(Not to pick on you Barlio...)

Didn't the OP want rants and raves? Shouldn't we be pointing out the sheer inanity of these upgrades with power and conviction?

I mean, what is with the ripper upgrade for the Carnifex? I spent hours gluing those little things all over my Carnifex. I bought three extra boxes of Tyranid Warriors just so I'd have enough to truly say my Carnifex and my rippers were best buddies. Then GW goes and changes the rules to make the worthless. HOW DARE THEY!1!!one!1! Those donkeycaves didn't even tell anyone they were going to do this in advance. If I'd know I could have saved the effort and even had an extra 50 points of bugs in a single non-scoring Troop choice that gives up a kill point to anything with a plasma cannon, power fist, power claw, pie plate, lascannon or vaguely hostile intention.

Man, I need a hug - and a Space Corridor.

So, OP is that more of what you were looking for?

No, my Fex do not have rippers. They were mostly pointless in fourth even before they became useless in fifth.

^^^ Thanks. Couldn't have said it better myself.

barlio=fail in this thread.

Anything in Fantasy which takes away a Fast Cavalry units status as Fast Cavalry.

An extra point of save is simple not worth sacrificing the added flexbility for, especially when you have to pay some points for it. With that, I can keep them in striking distance, outside of enemy LoS!

Most of the SW armoury. I mean, my men have Wolf Totems, and my Wolf Priest has an ornate Wolf Helm of Russ - picked up a box of Dire Wolves for that one - and it's completely fraggin' useless.

But what really, properly galls me - Ultrasmurfs get BETTER versions of most of our fluffly wargear.

Oh well, could be worse. I could be DA/BA. They just don't get the options.

Giving Cybork body to a unit of Nobz that is also protected by a Big Mek with a kustom force field. You can't take two 5+ invulnerables (Oh how I weep for second edition at times like this!!!). If the Big Mek has been killed and the unit hasn't yet made its points back, you suck as a Warboss.

I've stocked up on Pistoleers only for them to lose their fuselage special rule along with the ability to shoot a pistol on close combat.

warpcrafter wrote:Giving Cybork body to a unit of Nobz that is also protected by a Big Mek with a kustom force field. You can't take two 5+ invulnerables (Oh how I weep for second edition at times like this!!!). If the Big Mek has been killed and the unit hasn't yet made its points back, you suck as a Warboss.

Though latterly of course they outlawed multiple fixed saves. Think it was brought up during an Eldar V Eldar Tournament Winner battle reporty, with the exception made in that case as both players had the same kit on their Farseer, giving them both exactly the same edge.

Unless you are of course referring to the old Cybork Bodies, which gave you an armour value instead of anything else!

And BrookM, on the bright side, Pistoliers are still one of the best Fast Cavalry options available. Though I am buggered if I can figure out how to use their big brothers, the Outriders!

Xtra armour on SM rhinos for 15 pts! Nearly half the cost again and it only works on 1 in 6 galncing or pen. hits

warpcrafter wrote:Giving Cybork body to a unit of Nobz that is also protected by a Big Mek with a kustom force field. You can't take two 5+ invulnerables (Oh how I weep for second edition at times like this!!!). If the Big Mek has been killed and the unit hasn't yet made its points back, you suck as a Warboss.

I was under the Impression the Kustom Force Field gave a cover save. When you get hit with templates that deny the cover save and your armour save, that invulnerable save is going to look pretty nice. If that template is an Incinerator and also denies your Invulnerable, take heart that your opponent is playing a terrible army and you will still easily beat them.

barlio wrote:Ripper swarm base upgrades for the Carnifex?

simbiote rippers period.

and thanks again for the name of the podcast

Vassakov wrote:Most of the SW armoury. I mean, my men have Wolf Totems, and my Wolf Priest has an ornate Wolf Helm of Russ - picked up a box of Dire Wolves for that one - and it's completely fraggin' useless.

But what really, properly galls me - Ultrasmurfs get BETTER versions of most of our fluffly wargear.

Oh well, could be worse. I could be DA/BA. They just don't get the options.

Hey.....Be nice :(

Symbiote Rippers have already been stated.

Here's something you don't think of: Rending Claws on a Broodlord. They're standard equipment, but it's another blatant descriptor of how badly nids got kicked in the pants with the edition change.

Why are rending claws on a Broodlord worthless? The same reason they're also now worthless on the Tyrant and Carnifex: because their CC attacks already ignore armor saves. Sure, the BL gets an extra D3 to penetrate vehicles, but how on earth are you managing to get a non-fleet infantry model to assault a vehicle in the first place? Did the marines leave the Rhino running while they went inside the 7-11? Maybe it's more sinister, maybe the Chaplain is lost in Goofy 5 and the Rhino's left helpless in Mickey 2 and the Broodlord's coming with his keys, oh no!

The old GW website (viewable here) has a Carnifex with 2 pairs of Lash Whips. For you people out there who don't play Space Dinobugs™, Lash Whip effects are not cumulative. In other words, he paid 10 points for NOTHING. To add to that (although to be fair this was for 4th edition with retardo-grenades that granted I10) he bought Flesh Hooks (grenades) for an I1 model. Of course, there are a myriad of worthless fex upgrades like Thornback (which does.... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for the grand sum of 15 points), Regeneration (30 points for a 1/6 chance to recover lost wounds) which could be FREE and still have a high chance to be worthless, Acid Maw (which rerolls your chance to wound with your S9/S10 attacks), or the afformented Symbiote Rippers and Rending Claws. Thanks, GW.

Of course, Biovores have to be mentioned, too. I'll tell you what, let's make a unit that shoots kill points. I don't mean for the nid player. I mean free KP for his opponent. They will have TERRIBLE stats, TERRIBLE rules, TERRIBLE point costs, TERRIBLE models, and to top it all off they'll compete with the Carnifex for a FOC slot. Whoopee.

I just mentioned Lictors in another thread. Let's shell out 80 points for a model which takes a dangerous terrain test (with a 5+ armor save and nothing else) upon arriving on the map, has a high chance of being lost in the warp because they attempted to jump out from behind a tree, dies to flamers, grants a KP, and doesn't even have the decency to outperform a 21 point genestealer?


I could go on, but if I do then the new codex will be out by the time I'm done typing.

Templates, templates, templates. Ive had great luck with my IG here as late by laying plates everywhereon the tabletop!! Any troops not in cover have the tendacy to die in droves. Also meltas and plasma have been very kind to me as well. Since the new codex for IG has come out im 4 wins and 2 loss's, also on another note i got 2nd in a RTT. A friend of mine, who always seems to beat me with his eldar, took the win from me in the 5th and 6th round.

Elric of Grans wrote:

warpcrafter wrote:Giving Cybork body to a unit of Nobz that is also protected by a Big Mek with a kustom force field. You can't take two 5+ invulnerables (Oh how I weep for second edition at times like this!!!). If the Big Mek has been killed and the unit hasn't yet made its points back, you suck as a Warboss.

I was under the Impression the Kustom Force Field gave a cover save. When you get hit with templates that deny the cover save and your armour save, that invulnerable save is going to look pretty nice. If that template is an Incinerator and also denies your Invulnerable, take heart that your opponent is playing a terrible army and you will still easily beat them.

It does give a cover save now. In the last codex it gave an invuln. It is a fairly common mistake.

Dark lances in a DE Scourge squad.
I mean a move or fire weapon in a unit with jetpacks. Really GW what were you thinking?

95% of the Dark Eldar codex.

I'll vote for the bolter-stake crossbow combi weapon in the WH dex. It is like 20 points and almost useless

Its actually only 10 points, but its still terrible.

My vote goes to the Power stake from the WH armory, 2 handed S3 power weapon that wounds psykers on a 2+ for 20 points.

Another great choice is giving 1 of your WH priests a plasma rifle for 15 points, the idea of giving a BS3 model designed to charge a rapid fire weapon that can never fire at full range and if used prevents him charging (which is the unit's primary function) is just a great idea. Furthermore if I recall doesn't doing this prevent the priest from taking an evicerator as both of them are 2 handed weapons? I forget on that last part >.<

Broken Loose wrote:Of course, Biovores have to be mentioned, too. I'll tell you what, let's make a unit that shoots kill points. I don't mean for the nid player. I mean free KP for his opponent. They will have TERRIBLE stats, TERRIBLE rules, TERRIBLE point costs, TERRIBLE models, and to top it all off they'll compete with the Carnifex for a FOC slot. Whoopee.

I just mentioned Lictors in another thread. Let's shell out 80 points for a model which takes a dangerous terrain test (with a 5+ armor save and nothing else) upon arriving on the map, has a high chance of being lost in the warp because they attempted to jump out from behind a tree, dies to flamers, grants a KP, and doesn't even have the decency to outperform a 21 point genestealer?

For one, Biovores do not shoot out KPs. If you count Spore Mines that miss as KPs, that's insane. The model will effectively kill itself when it explodes. Does that somehow give your opponent a KP? So, in other words, every time a Biovore fires and hits, you give your opponent a KP?

As for Lictors, they do NOT take a dangerous terrain test when the arrive because they have to arrive inside terrain. They'll only take such a test if the terrain is dangerous to begin with. They'll also never be lost in the warp. Their rule specifically states that if they cannot be placed inside the terrain or scatter outside to place them as close as possible as long as it is more than 1" away from any other model. Trust me, it's there, plain as day.

Grot Riggers on Killa Kanz.

Yeah, you need to be able to repair Immobilize in a squadron.

Broken Loose wrote:Symbiote Rippers have already been stated.

Here's something you don't think of: Rending Claws on a Broodlord. They're standard equipment, but it's another blatant descriptor of how badly nids got kicked in the pants with the edition change.

Why are rending claws on a Broodlord worthless? The same reason they're also now worthless on the Tyrant and Carnifex: because their CC attacks already ignore armor saves. Sure, the BL gets an extra D3 to penetrate vehicles, but how on earth are you managing to get a non-fleet infantry model to assault a vehicle in the first place? Did the marines leave the Rhino running while they went inside the 7-11? Maybe it's more sinister, maybe the Chaplain is lost in Goofy 5 and the Rhino's left helpless in Mickey 2 and the Broodlord's coming with his keys, oh no!

The old GW website (viewable here) has a Carnifex with 2 pairs of Lash Whips. For you people out there who don't play Space Dinobugs™, Lash Whip effects are not cumulative. In other words, he paid 10 points for NOTHING. To add to that (although to be fair this was for 4th edition with retardo-grenades that granted I10) he bought Flesh Hooks (grenades) for an I1 model. Of course, there are a myriad of worthless fex upgrades like Thornback (which does.... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for the grand sum of 15 points), Regeneration (30 points for a 1/6 chance to recover lost wounds) which could be FREE and still have a high chance to be worthless, Acid Maw (which rerolls your chance to wound with your S9/S10 attacks), or the afformented Symbiote Rippers and Rending Claws. Thanks, GW.

Of course, Biovores have to be mentioned, too. I'll tell you what, let's make a unit that shoots kill points. I don't mean for the nid player. I mean free KP for his opponent. They will have TERRIBLE stats, TERRIBLE rules, TERRIBLE point costs, TERRIBLE models, and to top it all off they'll compete with the Carnifex for a FOC slot. Whoopee.

I just mentioned Lictors in another thread. Let's shell out 80 points for a model which takes a dangerous terrain test (with a 5+ armor save and nothing else) upon arriving on the map, has a high chance of being lost in the warp because they attempted to jump out from behind a tree, dies to flamers, grants a KP, and doesn't even have the decency to outperform a 21 point genestealer?


I could go on, but if I do then the new codex will be out by the time I'm done typing.

hahahahaha I was reading this and I thought "why does this sound so much like BL from SA". BL: Taking the 'sperg out of SA.

Ronin8879 wrote:

Broken Loose wrote:
I just mentioned Lictors in another thread. Let's shell out 80 points for a model which takes a dangerous terrain test (with a 5+ armor save and nothing else) upon arriving on the map, has a high chance of being lost in the warp because they attempted to jump out from behind a tree, dies to flamers, grants a KP, and doesn't even have the decency to outperform a 21 point genestealer?

As for Lictors, they do NOT take a dangerous terrain test when the arrive because they have to arrive inside terrain. They'll only take such a test if the terrain is dangerous to begin with. They'll also never be lost in the warp. Their rule specifically states that if they cannot be placed inside the terrain or scatter outside to place them as close as possible as long as it is more than 1" away from any other model. Trust me, it's there, plain as day.

Flesh hooks as standard. If flesh hooks work for the worst possible thing then they should work top down & prevent simpler/easier dangerous terrain tests too.

Also.. being able to run up an unscablable ferrocrete bunker, sit on the top, rain down str 8 barbed strangler hits from an awesome LOS annnnnd getting cover from quite a few things as the point-of-view from models too close to the tower can only see an obsured fex.

Rending claws on a fex - If your cheap & wanna fill up that slot!

a unit of vanguard vets fully upgraded with melta bombs, jump backs, thunder hammers and storm shields. I mean first of all can you imagine how awesome it would be to conver this squad. I would love it Make them all dark and Gothic looking with kick ass wing conversions for jump packs. So you spend around 50 - 75 bucks for a 5 man unit that costs 375 points that is pretty much worthless from anything aside from a pure hobby perspective.

Grabba Klaw on the battle wagon. Essentially it emans that you are forcing your opponent to get whatever is in their vehicle to get out and pounce you. This is only useful if your opponent has a vehicle with no guns or tank injuring crew, which also happens to be at a location where you need to go anyway. even then it might now work. How utterly preposterous.

Awesome idea though.

Razerous wrote:

As for Lictors, they do NOT take a dangerous terrain test when the arrive because they have to arrive inside terrain. They'll only take such a test if the terrain is dangerous to begin with. They'll also never be lost in the warp. Their rule specifically states that if they cannot be placed inside the terrain or scatter outside to place them as close as possible as long as it is more than 1" away from any other model. Trust me, it's there, plain as day.

FETHING VANGUARD!!!!!!!!! DO THEY EVEN DO????