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As the question says: which heavy support choice is the most versaile? I love Vindicators personally: big, awesome, huge gun for killing hordes and tough troops like termies. Can kill rhinos and such in a pinch, but AT is for bikes and landspeeders.

Whaddya' think?

Devastators by far, if only for their options.

2 words...

LAND RAIDER

Vindicator.

There is nothing that a S10/ap2 pie plate can't solve.

Predator. The Autocannon HB version does a good job of popping light vehicles and MCs, and are death on infantry. They are so cheap you can spam 3 and still have an army. Barring side/rear shots and assault, they are have good armor. The lascannon version is nasty, if not as efficient.

I'm gonna have to agree with the Dev squad. They can be kitted out to fill any role you like.

Land Raiders hands down.

One type is shooty, one is anti-hords/infantry and one is anti-tank.

Couple that with the capability to be a transport as well and it's one of the most versatile units in the game, let alone for marines.

Vindicator.

There's nothing it can't hurt at least reasonably well!

Land Raider Redeemer with Multi Melta is probably the most versatile since it:
Transports Scoring Marines or Assault Terminators for some assaulting fun.
Kills any infantry besides terminators fairly well with str 6 ap3 flamers regardless of cover.
Multimelta is pretty good at killing vehicles.

Vindicator comes in second because of no transport capability and the scatter of the large template
Kills any infantry with Str 10 AP2 large template but they get cover and you might just scatter off the target.
Str 10 Ordinance rolling 2d6 and taking the highest for penetration is pretty good for killing vehicles but you might scatter off unless the vehicle is large like a Land Raider.

BoxANT wrote:Vindicator.

There is nothing that a S10/ap2 pie plate can't solve.

I disagree. It can't make pie and solve the "What do I do with this pie plate now that I am done blowing things up" problem.
Everything else? Vindicator

Versatile? Devs... devs all the way. And if you can stuff those hurt-hauling beasties into a Razorback, then they'll do even more hurting through the game.

JJBCollect2 wrote:

BoxANT wrote:Vindicator.

There is nothing that a S10/ap2 pie plate can't solve.

I disagree. It can't make pie and solve the "What do I do with this pie plate now that I am done blowing things up" problem.
Everything else? Vindicator

Simple. Keep shooting till the Vindicator scatters back on itself and blows itself up

Devastators are the most versatile, given their wargear options, their ability to split into combat squads, and their transport options.

I think the question needs clarification.

Devastators are obviously the most customizable selection from the codex, but once the options are selected you're either good at killing infantry or tanks, but not both (if you mix and match weapons you just end up sucking completely). And they're extremely over-costed.

Vindicators and Land Raider Redeemers, however, are fairly awesome at killing everything, always.

Missile Devastators are the only ones that get close to being able to kill both (light) vehicles and infantry with any effectivness.

Devastators.

Devastators arnt really versatile at many different functions at the same time, they just have the ability to be specialised in many different areas.

Id say the most versatile unit would be the vindicator, as others have mentioned. theres nothing a s10 ap2 large blast won't sort out.

The vindicator is certainly very good in a lot of cases, but it does fall down badly in the range area. So while it will hammer anything it can hit, its certainly not the weapon to take on anything that can shoot back from 36 or 48".

So devs with msl launchers will be more flexible, altho they wont do as well against termies. Being able to break into squads and take a transport makes them even better.

If Im certain my opponent is going to let me get to within 24" then its hard to knock a vindi, but bright lances have 36" range, las cannons have 48" range and the IG stuff just gets worse yet.

It does matter a bit if points count. And exactly what you consider part of the heavy slot. Is the devs transport part of the heavy slot? Then taking a razorback and splitting them into combat squads is very versatile. Does the potential cargo of a land raider factor into the choice? A land raider filled with termies is a lot more versatile than the same LR taken empty as a 14 av tank. If points matter then taking two vindis instead of one LR is very versatile.


The choices are so different its hard to really compare them one to one.



Sliggoth

Danny Internets wrote:I think the question needs clarification.

Yeh, sorry. I didn't think many people would actually reply, so I didn't pay that much attention until about 5 minutes ago... Well, I was sorta looking for opinions on something that's decent at tanks AND infantry, so my choices would be the Vindie and LR Crusader with MM, but that's just opinion. With the Redeemer, I just don't like driving right into melta range, and the Crusader just scrapes fools, especially with Bloodclaws inside !!!!

Hope that helps!

augfubuoy wrote:With the Redeemer, I just don't like driving right into melta range, and the Crusader just scrapes fools, especially with Bloodclaws inside !!!!

Hope that helps!

I agree about bloodclaws, its epic to smash someone with 19 shots from the land raider (HB, AC, MM, SB), then 16 from Bloodclaws and ack leader, then 48 regular close combat attacks, then with 12 powerfist attacks

but you really dont know the awesomeness of the redeemer untill you kill and entire squad of chaos marines with a single flamestorm shot "oh man, last turn of the game, that objective looked pretty tight for you... untill my redeemer rolled up 12" and blasted your squad back into the warp."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, my vote is for Land Raiders. more mobile than devs, tougher than a vindi, and (for space wolves) very killy when loaded with blood claws.

i'm surprised no one at least mentioned sternguard... 2 heavy weapons and three combi-meltas in a five man squad.. that's pretty heavy dontchya think?

i still like vindis

Deuce11 wrote:i'm surprised no one at least mentioned sternguard... 2 heavy weapons and three combi-meltas in a five man squad.. that's pretty heavy dontchya think?

...Sternguard are Elites, not Heavy Support.

What about the Thunderfire cannon? Fairly inexpensive, comes with a tech marine, has a decent amount of different shot selections?

And dies when you look at it....which you will as it can't fire indirectly.

Very good post.

If we are going for versatile I am going with LR Crusader. More troop space. Has good range weapons with high rate of fire. I find it hit or miss because you have to get to close with it to be really effective. If you are in melta range of your target guess your opponent is usually in melta range of you.

The Predator gets overlooked, as usual, but I agree with notabot187. The Predator really is a powerful, fairly cheap HS choice.
Don't mix antitank with antipersonnel though : either go all out Lascannon, or go Autocannon + HB.

Four missle launcher devi squad. You can combat squad them to spilt their fire. They have blast templates for anti infantry and kracks for anything that isn't AV14. You just cannot go wrong with the 10 man 4 missile launcher devi squad.

A Razorback with Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters is a good addition to a squad like that.

Hmmm versatile, so that would be a good mix of weapon range & power both against vehicles and infantry, movement, defense....anything else?

First of all, SM is a balanced army, so actually almsot every choice is versatile.....but what is the most versatile. If the battlefield isn't too big I'd say land raider (crusader), multi-melta's range is good enough in most cases, not to mention it's destructive power. Machine guns blazing is always awesome for infantry.

If the battlefield is a bit bigger I'd go for the predator with autocannon & HB, bit longer range, but still good armor and capable of doing some damage.

In both cases I'd also recommend a devastator squad, lot's of weapon options, for both anti-vehicle aswell as anti-infantry, although less armor than a tank obviously , and can't move + shoot (but as they are mere soldiers, and not frightening tanks they should be less of a target for your opponents attacks).

Note: most devastator weapons got a huge range, so if they got a good spot to stand, they won't have to move that much.

Steelmage99 wrote:And dies when you look at it....which you will as it can't fire indirectly.

If you find killing a model which only gets destroyed about 13% of the time from a Space Marine with lascannon easy to kill, then we should all stay home from the Ard Boyz because you just won. The idea the Thunderfire cannon is easy to kill is laughable. It has a small profile to hide/get cover. The Techmarine adds +1 to it's cover save in Ruins. If you hit the Cannon, the shot reverts to the Techmarnie 33% of the time and he's got a 2+ armor save (and also a 3+/4+ cover save depending on where he's standing).