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I Know I've got this on my army blog, but its not really in the right section and I didn't get any define answers so here we are again.

I'm hoiping to design a Mega Mek HQ. This will be a Mek HQ that leads other big Meks. Its designed for both Apoc and normal in mind but pushes the boundaries of normal just a bit....

Here are what I plan to deck it out as for 180 points:
35 base, 40 for Mega Armour, 50 for 2* Power Klaw, 10 for Uber Missile, 20 for 4* Rokkit, 15 for Attack Squig, 25 for an aura that makes it able to reroll any Dok's tools within 16". Mega Mek would have BS4 and WS2 as he has spent so much time playing with rokkits that he knows where they goes.

Next comes the iffy part of this model. As we know, every ork HQ allows something to be taken as a troop choice. The debate becomes whether
it would also allow one Big Mek to be taken as troops, 1-3 Big Mek as troops, or 1 Big Mek and 1 lootas squad. Note that it needs to have the mek in there somewhere as he is a leader of MEKs.

You forgot the Kustom Karakter Taks.
15 points for the ability to take a homebrew character.
+5 points for changing his stats, even without a whole lot of improvement.

I would make it a squad of meks, with mek's tools and kustom mega blasta, 15 points a piece, and a regular Big Mek as a leader, for the base cost + upgrades.

So he works.....

As for the 'Kustomer Karakter Taks' may you link me to them. I've not heard of them.

Link you to what? The Custom Character Tax is simply the 15 points for the homebrew character. I just added the K's cuz it was Orky.

As Canonness says, the "Custom Character tax" is a term used to refer to the fact that, when making your own custom character, you price it as fairly as you can, and then add 15 or so points. This stems from the old days when the VDR(vehicle design rules.) were being used. (Short summary of why: The VDR were a set of rules that allowed you to make your own vehicle. But using VDR, you always wound up with a cost slightly more than if you replicated a normal vehicle. This was called the "custom tax".)

It also makes your opponent a little more comfortable.


And as I haven't chimed in yet, here's what I suggest.
You have Mega-armor, 2 PKs, and Rokkits. WHY isn't this guy in a Kustom Suit?! It's awesomely flavorful.

Here's what I'd say:

WS:3 BS:3 S:4(8) T:4 W:2 I:3 A:3(4) LD:8 Sv:2+/5++

Notes on changes from what you wrote: Even if he's been shootin' rokkits all the time, he's still orky. He's not going to forget how to Krump. So instead of swapping his stats, just even them out. I don't think this guy needs an attack squig, since he gets 5 PK attacks on the charge. And the invuln comes from Cybork body. If ANYONE in an ork army should be a cybork...

As to gear and rules...

Wargear: Gorkon Armor, Cybork Body, Da Big 'Un

Gorkon Armor: The "mega-mek" goes to battle in a suit of mega armor he built himself, a frightening creation of Crushy weaponry. Almost as large as a Killa Kan, it can be worn only by Mega-Mek, as he has built the controls into his cybork body. The armor gives a 2+ armor save, has a pair of power klaws for combat, that also count as Dok's Tools, and has 4 Rokkits mounted on the shoulders. The mega Mek may fire one rokkit a turn. (or more if you want)
(bonus attack for power klaws, and modified strength, included in profile)

Da Big 'Un: If armor were the only place that Mega-Mek was a skilled crafter, he would be at best a minor threat to the galaxy. Unfortunately, his skill with explosives makes him a major one. Once per game, during the shooting phase, the Mega-mek may shoot his "Big 'Un". Resolve the attack as follows: Range 48" S:6+d3 AP:d3 Assault 1, Blast. The Big 'Un rolls an extra d6 for armor penetration. On a roll of 1 to fire, place the blast marker over Mega-Mek.

Special Rules: Independent Character, NOT DAT PART, YOU GIT!, Da Kleanin' Krew

NOT DAT PART, YOU GIT!: Any Mek within 16" of the Mega mek may re-roll the result of using his Dok's Tools. He must accept the re-roll.

Da Kleanin' Krew: If you take Mega-Mek as an HQ, you may also take a single Big Mek as a Troops choice. THis Big Mek may have a retinue of Meks, at the cost of 15 points a mek, up to 14 meks.

Now, the advantage of what I've written is -15 for attack squig, +5 for Cybork, +5 for krew, and now we add the character tax...190-195 points for the big guy.

And you can point out the following: He can, at best, only fire 5 shots a game, His rokkit has a chance to back-fire, and he's still just T:4 W:2.

Canonness Rory wrote:Link you to what? The Custom Character Tax is simply the 15 points for the homebrew character.

That's not a good idea. Everything should be worth its points, and have abilities that match its points cost. Adding additional points for arbitrary reasons is bad rules design.

Whatdaya think of the ideas though? I personally like trh mek retinue, ever if I'd not be able to use it in anything bar custom and apoc games.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Canonness Rory wrote:Link you to what? The Custom Character Tax is simply the 15 points for the homebrew character.

That's not a good idea. Everything should be worth its points, and have abilities that match its points cost. Adding additional points for arbitrary reasons is bad rules design.

Except that you're essentially paying for the OPTION of taking those special rules.

Imagine if every army could take options from every other army. We'd see some CRAZY BROKEN stuff, you have to pay for the option of taking stuff you are not normally allowed to take, and you especially have to pay for sutff you just make up. Besides, if you actually plan on fielding a custom character, you playtest the heck out of them. If it is revealed they are overcosted, you probably remove the tax, as well as other points. You don't just sit down and create a perfect custom character, or ruleset, on the first go, playtesting is key, otherwise we would have a new Dark Eldar, Tau, and Inquisition codex by now

Canonness Rory wrote:Except that you're essentially paying for the OPTION of taking those special rules.

What? How does that even make logical sense.

A unit has a points cost. From this you can have three situations:

1. The unit is worth its points cost (ie. is balanced).
2. The unit is not worth its points cost (ie. is over-balanced).
3. The unit is worth more than its points cost (ie. the unit is under-balanced).

If situations 2 or 3 happen, you either:

1. Reduce or increase ability to match cost.
2. Reduce or increase cost to match ability.

You don't tack on a needlessly arbitrary 15 points for... no reason. A unit should cost what is appropriate, not X points + a premium because you made up the rules. That's bad rules design.

Canonness Rory wrote:Imagine if every army could take options from every other army. We'd see some CRAZY BROKEN stuff

That form of logical fallacy is called a "Slippery Slope Argument". It infers that "Because of X, Y is true" when there's no actual correlation between the two and is therefore completely meaningless. If every army could take options from every other army, and they were costed correctly, we wouldn't have this problem, would we?

Canonness Rory wrote:You don't just sit down and create a perfect custom character, or ruleset, on the first go, playtesting is key

Yes. Playtesting is the key, it allows you to get the correct price. Adding 15 points of 'tax' for no fething reason doesn't achieve this goal. Our group has been playtesting the rules and Codices for our version of 40K for well over 5 years. We know how to playtest, and you use benchmarks and archetypes to establish a baseline (or 'gut-feeling') price, and then test from there. At no point do you go "This is custom therefore +X points". No, you make the unit worth its cost, you don't add 'taxes'.

What an absurd notion.

HBMC. What do you think of the character?

I shall playtest, I shall also take the Mek retinue... The stat line will be discussed with my friends before its developed. Uber Missile I'm thinking of toning down to the standard Super-Rokkit of Stompa fame. The fact that it goes down to four shots is what's most irking me. I picture him, coming over a muddy hill arms wide as rokkits fly everywhere. Four rokkits kinda kills that image.

Two points:
HBMC, the idea of the Custom character tax, I believe, is for the initial playtesting phase, under the assumption that you playtest with people who may not feel comfortable with the character to begin with. (maybe you can only play at a your FLGS) By deliberately over-costing him slightly to start, you avoid accusations of "powergaming." It's not intended to never go away.
It also compensates for the fact that your character has no official backing. GW (one hopes) spends time balancing things, where you might not have. And even if you have, it means less, sadly. If I used a model from your revisited collection, me saying ""HBMC balanced this" just doesn't mean as much.
And I'd like to add the point "costed correctly FOR THE NEW USER" to your statement regarding point balances. I presume it was in your thoughts. I just didn't want to hear someone use it to defend "Shootas are always 5 points, so my SM captain should get one for 5 points" Which is where Cannoness's point of a slippery slope comes in. Weapons can be balanced and correctly pointed for the people intended to use them, but not for others. Ork weapons can have high strength and rates of fire, because orks miss with 2/3 of their shots. A space marine HITS with 2/3 of their shots.

To the-ferret: The 4 rokkit thing was me writing what I thought you gave me. If you want more rokkits, by all means. In fact, I realize that your cost was probably for 4 rokkit launchers, in which case we could easily have him fire 2-3 rokkits a turn. Though that needs some orky touches. (lower BS, increased scatter, odds of killing the mega-mek.)

And if you had an idea for the Uber Rokkit, go for it.

ANYTHING I write for someone's special character is me trying to make what they want as fun and flavorful as possible. If you disagree, try something else.

No need to be so freakin Hostile HMBC, you're acting like I said something uncouth about your mother or something.

*Hugs Allwillfall2me* Sorry about the misunderstanding. I know the PKs were a bit diverting, they were only put there cause friend thought him holding 2 spanners that counted as big choppas was too little.