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Vanilla Leman Russ- Honestly this is the most versatile. The other varieties are neat, don't get me wrong. But it seems like the most practical is also the most basic. The battlecannon will flatten infantry and hurt medium vehicles. I think if someone wants a Leman Russ but isn't quite sure which they want to take, and don't want to go too crazy on points this seems like the best bet.

Exterminator- Unfortunately it seems to be overshadowed by the Hydra. This is kind of a shame, and its a little annoying that GW would make such an overlap to really discourage anyone from taking this variant. For the price you can take 2 Hydras and change, throwing out double the firepower. This is disappointing. It has more armor and can take more guns, but its just too much points. They kind of goofed with this one, I think.

Demolisher- My favorite. Short range, but the way I'd use it is as a shock tank, flanked by fast tanks. I think the short range kind of encourages you to keep it moving, and I imagine the str10 blast will either scare units out of range or draw their fire. I'd take two of them or accompany them with cheaper vehicles (like sentinels or fast tanks) to protect them.

Punisher- The multiple shots might be nice against models that have invul saves (like demons) which would render AP weapons moot. It would also be effective against high numbers of low T/armorsave opponents. Most people feel like the plasmacannon one is better, but at least with this one you have the chance of getting a lot of hits against a squad no matter how spread out they are.

Plasmacannon one- (can't remember name) Most people agree its the best of the new variants, you can give it plasmacannon sponsons and have 5 plasma blast templates plus a hull weapon to shoot. The range/firepower kind of encourages you to hang back, while the Punisher's short range encourages you to stay mobile. I agree its probably the best out of all of them, but it ends up being among the most expensive too. Just something to consider. I think the firepower is also going to make this one a very big fire magnet, since it can so easily wipe out terminators/high T squads/2+ sv models.

Novacannon one- (can't remember the name) Probably the least-mentioned of all of them. Seems middle of the road. The str value is fine (most infantry are T4, so it'll wound on a 2+ whether its a novacannon shot or demonlisher cannon shot), its too bad the AP wasn't 3. In a Forest-heavy board I guess it would be pretty nice. All the AP in the world is pointless with a squad sitting pretty in cover. This would probably be nice for dislodging a squad sitting on an objective in cover, or raping squads designed to be stealthy/coversave-y.

Vanquisher- Probably the most specialized Leman Russ tank. Lack of blast really limits it, but I guess you could give it plasmacannons to make it versatile if you wanted. I guess if you actually get it to hit a vehicle it'll wreck things. If I took one I'd be targeting vehicles that cost more than the Vanquisher (Land Raider) to try and get lucky and get its points back. Camo netted sitting in cover would make it durable but it would also be rather easy to ignore since it only sputters out one BS3 shot a turn and with no vehicles on the board its just a big waste of points.

My personal favorite is the LRBT with Plasma Sponsons. For only 190 points you get one huge ORD Blast, 2 plasma blast templates, and a heavybolter. If you want to add in the stubba for good mesure to make it an even 200. It super deadly to any infantry and long and medium distances. The second best is Demolisher is second best because its a short/medium range and costs more points.

My favourite is the Eradicator.

Ranged tough pie dealing 2+ wounding goodness.

There are some advantages to the Exterminator though. First, it has much better armor than the hydras giving it survivability. Second it actually has more firepower than both hydras they move, with the LREx having it's turret cannon, pintle stubber and either a las cannon, or a heavy bolter, while the hydras get two hydra cannons and two stubbers. You could use a squadron of LREx with sponson Hvy flamers as a heavy mobile gun unit, able to shrug of large amounts of fire, while lining up shots where needed.

While Hydras are good, AV 12 open topped with AV 10 sides is pretty easy to kill. The Exterminator, however, is a tough nut to crack.

I like to to think that the Exterminator versus Hydra relationship is like the Demolisher versus Medusa: Range versus survivability.

The vanquasher is nice for it's ability to punch though AV14 without having to be right infront of it's target. To keep it useful though, I'd keep it stripped down. A lascannon to back up the main gun is all you need.

It's particularly nice for fluff-IGers who might not want to flying-melta-spam and still have something resembling effective anti-tank.

AdeptSister wrote:While Hydras are good, AV 12 open topped with AV 10 sides is pretty easy to kill. The Exterminator, however, is a tough nut to crack.

I like to to think that the Exterminator versus Hydra relationship is like the Demolisher versus Medusa: Range versus survivability.

Ok. Let's keep both point costs and survivability equal, and compare the Exterminator to the standard Leman Russ.

-The Exterminator puts out the four twin-linked shots.
-The Leman Russ fires a large blast template.

-The Exterminator is Strength 7.
-The Leman Russ is Strength 8.

-The Exterminator is AP 4.
-The Leman Russ is AP 3.

-The Exterminator has a 48" range.
-The Leman Russ has a 72" range.

-The Exterminator is a heavy weapon.
-The Leman Russ is ordinance, which rolls two dice picking the highest against vehicles.

-The autocannon that the Exterminator resembles is 10 points.
-The missile launcher that the Leman Russ resembles costs 15 points.

Dave47 wrote:-The autocannon that the Exterminator resembles is 10 points.
-The missile launcher that the Leman Russ resembles costs 15 points.

The exterminator isn't auto-killed by a shuriken cannon.

AdeptSister wrote:While Hydras are good, AV 12 open topped with AV 10 sides is pretty easy to kill. The Exterminator, however, is a tough nut to crack.

I like to to think that the Exterminator versus Hydra relationship is like the Demolisher versus Medusa: Range versus survivability.

Hydra is not open topped.

Mmm...Pi wrote:

Dave47 wrote:-The autocannon that the Exterminator resembles is 10 points.
-The missile launcher that the Leman Russ resembles costs 15 points.

The exterminator isn't auto-killed by a shuriken cannon.

Neither is the basic Leman Russ. I think you missed the point.

Also dont forget , once the LR blows up its gone.

The hydra while weaker armored, it only cost half of the LR.
so even if you blow one up, the other one is still good to shoot.

And if they both get shot in the rear, both AV 10 anyways.

There is really no reason not to take Hydra over Exterminator other than its a FW item :<

Jpr wrote:

AdeptSister wrote:While Hydras are good, AV 12 open topped with AV 10 sides is pretty easy to kill. The Exterminator, however, is a tough nut to crack.

I like to to think that the Exterminator versus Hydra relationship is like the Demolisher versus Medusa: Range versus survivability.

Hydra is not open topped.

You are correct. Sorry about that. But AV 14 is wonderful. AV 13 Side is much, much better than AV 10. And being immobilized kills a squadroned vehicle.

Only a few weapons can kill AV 14 from 12+" away. Most anti-tank has little problem against AV 12. The ability to basically ignore any weapon under Str 8 (Str 9 really) should not discounted.

EDIT: And the Exterminator, like the other Leman Russ variants, is specialized. It is by far the best Leman Russ for taking out skimmers, transports, Walkers and light tanks. For its base price, no Leman does that job better. Now, one could say that autocannons could be better served in line infantry squads while all the other variants bring something unique. That would be a valid strike against the Exterminator.

We need someone to do math hammer , how many shots to destroy 1 LR and how many to destroy TWO Hydra.

AdeptSister wrote:

Jpr wrote:

AdeptSister wrote:While Hydras are good, AV 12 open topped with AV 10 sides is pretty easy to kill. The Exterminator, however, is a tough nut to crack.

I like to to think that the Exterminator versus Hydra relationship is like the Demolisher versus Medusa: Range versus survivability.

Hydra is not open topped.

You are correct. Sorry about that. But AV 14 is wonderful. AV 13 Side is much, much better than AV 10. And being immobilized kills a squadroned vehicle.

Only a few weapons can kill AV 14 from 12+" away. Most anti-tank has little problem against AV 12. The ability to basically ignore any weapon under Str 8 (Str 9 really) should not discounted.

EDIT: And the Exterminator, like the other Leman Russ variants, is specialized. It is by far the best Leman Russ for taking out skimmers, transports, Walkers and light tanks. For its base price, no Leman does that job better. Now, one could say that autocannons could be better served in line infantry squads while all the other variants bring something unique. That would be a valid strike against the Exterminator.

Oh yeah, I totally agree on that-the difference between AV 12 and AV 14 is huge.

In theory the plus points for Hydra are:
-much longer range.
-2 hydras have double the autocannon fire, and an extra heavybolter/heavy flamer (not that this matters much).
-anti-bike/anti-skimmer extra rules (again not amazingly useful, but its something).
-hydra autocannons are frickin huge giving line of sight over most of battlefield (can be a negative too).
-1 weapon destroyed result on a squad of hydras is only 1/4 of the firepower lost, compared to nearly 100% of exterminator.

Plus points for exterminator:
-much tougher, can almost ignore anything under strength 9.
-immobilisation isn't a big deal, losing a hydra is.
-can shield other tanks like chimeras.
-can take side sponsors/pask to be very powerful but really costly (just an extra option).
-slightly better on the move than hydra squad, can fire both tl autocannon + heavy bolter, the hydra squad can only fire 1 tl autocannon each.


Personally I'm not sure how useful exterminators are...I love my hydras and I've tried an exterminator and while it did fairly decent, it really isnt a powerhouse/scary unit-which works quite well for it because generally people leave it alone and focus on the demolishers/executioners/vendettas leaving it to shoot things all game. The main reason its hydras for me is the extra range, 72" is godly :].

Hm, maybe I'll keep my Leman Russ Exterminator as is after all (I had one for a Space Wolf army, was considering prying off the autocannon and just making it a vanilla Leman Russ).

As people said, one advantage the exterminator has is as a Main Battle Tank of sorts, it works well in a long-range slugfest. Few weapons can kill it easily at range head-on. Its also one of the few twin linked weapons IG get in their armory (sorely needed, at BS3 while BS4 marines get twin linked weapons all over the place :p )

With Pask, the exterminator also becomes a nice monstrous creature killer. Assuming it was stationary, you'll get 4 str 7 shots, rerolling hits AND rerolling wounds. Combined with 3 heavy bolters it can belch out a lot of shots at range.

What about the Eradicator (novacannon one, looked it up in my codex )? Its only ten points more than a basic leman russ. I think it might be the economical counterpart to the more popular executioner.

"Fry cook" pattern Leman russ (Executioner with plasma sponsons): 230 points
"OrkBane" pattern Leman russ (Eradicator with hvy bolter sponsons) 180 points

Don't get me wrong, the "Fry cook" config is great, particularly against MEQs since that AP2 will hurt them bad. But against more numerous enemies, its kind of overkill. Str 6 will wound on a 2+ vs most targets as str 7 will, and in cover the nova cannon wins out big time. It would be good against screened infantry, units that have gone to ground or units designed to chill out in cover (kroot?)

Liquidwulfe wrote:

Mmm...Pi wrote:

Dave47 wrote:-The autocannon that the Exterminator resembles is 10 points.
-The missile launcher that the Leman Russ resembles costs 15 points.

The exterminator isn't auto-killed by a shuriken cannon.

Neither is the basic Leman Russ. I think you missed the point.

The point was comparing it to heavy weapons teams not the basic russ. Compared to the LRBT the LREx doesn't do very well, at least in pure shooting, but it is cheaper, can hit widely spread targets better, and can be used as a mobile firing support.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually I'm thinking about trying an Executioner with hull heavy flamer and sponson multi-meltas. The idea being it can move to support an advance, and is equiped to handle anything it runs into. Before anyone says it YES I know that not all the weapons work on the same kinds of targets, but seeing as the vehicle will be moving, it can only fire two of them anyways. So it can shoot light vehicles with Multi-meltas and turret, infantry with heavy flamer and turret and pintle stubber, and has the multi-meltas for anti-heavy armor. All for 180 pts.

I run a Mech Company so I run three Demolishers with Lascannons, no sponsons. Move every turn and fire both weapons. They deal with the Termies and Land Raiders.

Nice!

Mmm...Pi wrote:Compared to the LRBT the LREx doesn't do very well, at least in pure shooting, but it is cheaper, can hit widely spread targets better, and can be used as a mobile firing support.

The Leman Russ Exterminator is not cheaper than the standard Leman Russ. It is also no more mobile than a standard Leman Russ due to the Lumbering Behemoth rule.

AdeptSister wrote:And the Exterminator, like the other Leman Russ variants, is specialized. It is by far the best Leman Russ for taking out skimmers, transports, Walkers and light tanks. For its base price, no Leman does that job better. Now, one could say that autocannons could be better served in line infantry squads while all the other variants bring something unique. That would be a valid strike against the Exterminator.

You've caught on to one problem with the Exterminator: infantry-based autocannons are dirt cheap. And even if they weren't, the Hydra puts out the same firepower as an Exterminator at longer range for 1/2 the cost. Unless you're fighting fast skimmers. Then the Hydra puts out twice the firepower for 1/2 the cost.

Lack of durability is not really an issue unless the enemy is bringing a lot of firepower to bear. AV 12 is no slouch, and Hydras are easy to screen behind a Chimera. So you've got to ask yourself how often you face a Rhino rush that is supported by significant long-range AT firepower. Because that scenario represents the only situation where an Exterminator might possibly be worthwhile.

Jerjare wrote:Hm, maybe I'll keep my Leman Russ Exterminator as is after all (I had one for a Space Wolf army, was considering prying off the autocannon and just making it a vanilla Leman Russ).

Please don't take an Exterminator. It is a bad tank, and the people advising you to take it are giving you bad advice.

I have been trying different configs, and right now I am really digging LRBT w/ Plasma sponsons, and LRDemo w/ hull HF

Although I no longer collect IG, I'm all for the one with the plasma turret and the plasma sponsons. All that AP1 death, so much fun. However, I can imagine that it'd come under pretty heavy fire from the first turn lol.

MC

I am actually going to take an Executioner with a Punisher. Together they can pretty much slaughter any infantry/MC they shoot at.

With all these new variants, I'm inclined to stick with the normal one, as even though it hasn't got the special weapons of all the other tanks, it has a large range of weapons, and it can be given HKs (I know the others can, but bear with me), and it's generally the best. It's also the only one with a model released by GW made of plastic.

MC

I actually had very good sucess in a couple quick test games last night with a 2 tank squadron of Vanquishers with Plasma Sponsons, Lascannons and Pask.

The Squadron seemed to be able to handle just about anything and killed everything it shot at whether it was armor, heavy or light infantry. I am playtesting it for an Ard Boyz list so the points cost is not so much an issue but Im starting to think It might replace the Demolisher and Executioner I have been running at 1850 for GT practice.

Still need to see how it works against more armies, but im impressed so far.

Surely your choice of Russ fit out should complement the rest of your army? If you're running multiple Vendettas then the use of a Vanquisher drops away a bit and its better to pick up one of the more AP types. Conversely if you're drowning in infantry squads and autocannon then going for a Vanquisher makes a lot more sense.

I think people will find it harder to justify an ultimate Russ fit-out because it will be so subjective.

Liquidwulfe wrote:I am actually going to take an Executioner with a Punisher. Together they can pretty much slaughter any infantry/MC they shoot at.

Do you mean in the same squad? There's no sense in that because the other player can allocate the nasty ap2 wounds on 1 or two models and the ap- shots onto others.
But otherwise a good choice.

The Punisher looks cool on paper but is nowhere near as scary once you actually run the numbers. Punisher shoots at a unit of 10 tactical marines:

20 shots BS 3 = 10 hits
10 wounds str5 vs T4 = 7 wounds
7 armor saves 3+ save = 2 dead marines

(numbers rounded to whole numbers for simplicity and my lack of a calculator + laziness at this moment in time)

You can add sponsons to it to improve this (plasma cannons are good I hear) but it will still be outshined by an Executioner or Demolisher due to the strength and AP advantages both tanks have. A demolisher cannon will likely kill 4-5 marines if they aren't in cover and they're very spread out. An Executioner will attain similar results to the Demolisher.

I was so excited about the Punisher when Iheard about it. My preliminary list had 2 of them in it (all with Plasma Cannon sponsons), but after doing some math and playtesting they were really subpar in comparison to Demolishers and Executioners.

Perhaps. I will probably just end up running dual vanilla Executioners, dual Demolishers, and a Manticore.

Flinty wrote:Surely your choice of Russ fit out should complement the rest of your army? If you're running multiple Vendettas then the use of a Vanquisher drops away a bit and its better to pick up one of the more AP types. Conversely if you're drowning in infantry squads and autocannon then going for a Vanquisher makes a lot more sense.

I think people will find it harder to justify an ultimate Russ fit-out because it will be so subjective.

I agree with everything he said. Your Leman Russ choice should be dictated by what the rest of your army looks like. In that respect, there are many good choices among the Russ variants.

Well certianly they will fill an important role and should be picked based on which variant best suits that role. Some tanks have overlapping roles though, and some are better thnao thers in those roles. Discussing what each one is best at and why, then comparing it to the other options suited for a similar role will lead to the discovery of what the best choice for a particular role is.