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ok, I want to introduce people I know to wargaming.
The problem, for them a boardgame is monopoly
I find WH40k scary to learn for new player.

I tought about Mordheim: less model = less scary?

What are your tought about this subject? any suggestion?

Assault on Black Reach, go with that.

40K is a tough game to learn with no experience. I usually start with space hulk.

If they are into Manga/Anime/video games, then "Anima Tactics" is a good option - you can get a faction starter pack including the rules, cards, tokens and two models for around £14. It's good for intro gaming because you only need 2 or 3 models per side, and their aesthetic is manga-inspired so it will appeal to a large element of the geek crowd who like that style of artwork. Typically individual models retail around £7 a piece including card and tokens.

It's not as complicated as 40k, with basic play reminiscent of Warmachine in a way - the key mechanic is about resouce management.

If you are wanting an army-style sci-fi game than you could do worse than buy the Operation Damocles intro set for AT-43. You get 2 armies, already painted, terrain, dice, the rules (additional copies can be downloaded for free from Rackham's website) and an introductory campaign that teaches you the basic rules as you go through increasingly complicated scenarios.

Many new people are put off from starting because of fear of not being able to paint, so this is a good intro to the hobby because of that.

If you want to stick with GW I'd recommend the LotR SBG "Moria" box as the best of the 3 intro packs. Full rules, dice, models etc., but the benefits of instantly accessible fluff - straight from the film. The rules are easier to pick up than either WFB or 40k as well, which helps. And unlike WFB or 40k the original SBG (As opposed to WotR) is playable at a small model count, so it isn't intimidating at all.

EDIT: I should add, I'm not having a snide dig at 40k and WFB here by promoting its starter pack over AoBR and BoSP. It's just I think that as a "starter" it does a better job in introducing someone to wargaming as a whole. Mainly because (IMNSHO) the LotR game works better at the level of the number of models included in the box. And lets face it - everyone wants the Fellowship

Thanks everyone

I did not think about Lotr. A great idear, since most people did see the movies...

It really depends on the player. Your best bet is to gauge their interest level, attention span, and personal tastes. If they already play games & have some experience painting, then Mordheim, Necromunda, or even Warmachine are great options- few models to paint & quick games. If they're sports buffs, you can always try Blood Bowl. If you've got multiple 40k armies, you can dust off your 4th ed rulebook for the combat patrol rules. Big thing here is to start them off with loaner figs so they don't have to spend just to try it out- if they end up hating BB, they'll be bent that you made them fork $50 for an Orc team...

If they don't have alot of gaming experience, maybe try something simple, like Risk or, even better, Heroscape- this'll get them used to playing with miniatures (and, in the case of Heroscape, terrain).
If they don't have alot of interest in painting figs (yet), try something like Heroclix or Monsterpocalypse- especially if they're superhero or Godzilla fans.

There are also lots of mini-based board games out there that are great for groups, like Descent and Tannhauser. If you check out sites like Board Game Geek, you can find dozens of similar games. The beauty of the complex board games is that you can often suck people into mini painting by showing them the cool figs you painted for the game.

Of course, as you say, their experience goes no deeper than Monopoly, so some of the more complex or "geeky" games may drive them off. In this case, "thinking" games like Blockus or Ingeneous may be more up their alley.

A good option may also be to take the person you want to play with to your local game store- see what grabs their attention and go with that (worked for my wife )

Urban War
AT 43
40k in 40 minutes

Best intro level wargame ever is OGRE by Steve Jackson Games. You can learn the basic rules in about 5 minutes.

The newbie can have the OGRE so he only needs to control a singe unit, he has at least 50% chance to win through luck and best of all, he can't lose in a few turns so he'll always feel like he is getting somewhere.

I would actually recommend Mordheim for this, but the others in this thread seem to have a considerably wider spectrum of experience so one of them probably has a better solution.

M_Stress wrote:ok, I want to introduce people I know to wargaming.

Any of GW's intro boxes (40k AoBR, WFB BfSP, LotR MoM) are specifically designed to introduce a new player to wargaming. They have intro scenarios and stuff, and will make a good foundation to wargaming.

Same with D&D. That's one a helluva wargame that pretends to be a RPG...

Mordheim is a great game, and a decent starter because of the small scale. If you've got the starter box, you should have some great games. Just avoid anything not in the printed rulebook.

The PP army starters aren't bad, but I think they're more complex than the GW game intros.

I haven't tried the FOW starter, but that should be decent, too.

I did start reading about tannhauser. Sounds fun, anyone have experience with it?
(LuigiX, I'm looking your way)

Go with AT-43 , the initiation set is $30 , gives you everything you need for 2 players.

Oh did i mention its pre painted too?

M_Stress wrote:I did start reading about tannhauser. Sounds fun, anyone have experience with it?
(LuigiX, I'm looking your way)

It's a blast. Relatively easy to pick up & play, but a surprising amount of strategy once you get into it. The two forces that come with it play very differently (but well balanced), so it stays interesting. Cool LOS rules that work very well- you can shoot anything on the same color circle as you (so no "sure I can see you... a little" fights). Unfortunately, my copy got misplaced before I could get the new Russian expansion, so can't attest to it...
And the figs are very nice for pre-painted.

Settlers of Catan is the best intro to deeper levels of nerd gaming. The rules are really easy but you can use as much or as little strategy as you want. From there I recommend a starter from any of the "collectible" games as they're usually simpler to grasp and the range of subject matter is huge. Once they trust your gaming taste you can suck them into anything.

Settlers is a great game for introducing non-gamers to gaming, but it's definitely not a wargame, per se.

I would go with either Axis & Allies or one of the newer Risk variants (Risk: Black Ops is good, as is Star Wars Risk: Clone Wars Edition) to start with. Vinci is also superb, and quick to play (2 hours) if you can track down a copy.

Then I'd go with either Mordheim, Necromunda, or Space Hulk to introduce them to GW style miniature wargaming. Again, if you can track it down & don't mind paying through the nose for it, Tyranid Attack is another really good fun old GW game -- kinda random, but fast-moving.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Settlers of Catan is the best intro to deeper levels of nerd gaming.

Settlers is great, most of the time, when you're able to build at a reasonable rate with everyone else.

But Settlers has an annoying characteristic, that once in a while, you get a bad start, you don't build, and it's just impossible to catch up. Unfortunately, it's not possible to quit the game, so you're stuck grinding along for no reason whatsoever. Totally un-fun.

Because of this, I would never recommend Settlers as a game.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Settlers of Catan is the best intro to deeper levels of nerd gaming.

Settlers is great, most of the time, when you're able to build at a reasonable rate with everyone else.

But Settlers has an annoying characteristic, that once in a while, you get a bad start, you don't build, and it's just impossible to catch up. Unfortunately, it's not possible to quit the game, so you're stuck grinding along for no reason whatsoever. Totally un-fun.

Because of this, I would never recommend Settlers as a game.

Not possible or bad form? Does it just screw up everyone else that's playing to the point that they'll want to quit if you quit? I've thought about picking this up several times because I've never heard anything bad about it.

I'm not quite sure I understand the question.

Settlers is a *very* good game, don't get me wrong. It uses and manages randomness very well. And most of the time, the game moves along beautifully. Most of the time, it's loads of fun.

But it's not perfect, and the first time you're the guy wanting "food stamps" (or some other catch-up mechanism), you'll understand what I'm talking about earlier. It's every so slightly flawed, and I think this flaw randomly pops up about every 4 or 5 games or so.

What exacerbates the problem is that you're locked into a multi-player game with no way out, and you're pretty much duty-bound to continue the game so that the rest of the players can continue to play. But unlike, say, Monopoly, you have extremely limited kingmaking or spoiler ability. So you're just sitting there, gritting your teeth through others turns, doing nothing interesting on your turn.

Is it a fatal flaw? No, not exactly. There are loads of house rules (like "food stamps") to try and address it. But it is a flaw that you should know about before you get going.

All multi-player games have the same problem which is whether players (sides) should get eliminated, like in Kingmaker or Shogun, or whether they should carry on with the game despite no chance of winning.

One way of doing it is to have pro-rated victory conditions so the weaker sides don't need to be so successful to win. Pax Brittanica used this mechanism. If you were Italy, you didn't need to do a lot to do well, while Britain needed to work very hard just to stay even.

Right, but in most other multiplayer games, if you're not eliminated, you can still influence the game. In Settlers, you mostly can't.

Heroscape-Already Mentioned-Is a good start and a pretty good value too. Not to mention the fact that there are expansion packs.

Thanks everyone

I already own WH40k (3 army), and mordheim(2 warband).

So, I ordered tannhauser, since it seem "fast" (one hour game), not too scary (5 model per side) and fun.

If my friend like it, I'll then use mordheim or Wh40K in 40 minutes (thanks Wolfstan).

Once he's there, we all know how it's gonna end...

M_Stress wrote:ok, I want to introduce people I know to wargaming.
The problem, for them a boardgame is monopoly
I find WH40k scary to learn for new player.

I tought about Mordheim: less model = less scary?

What are your tought about this subject? any suggestion?

Use their knowledge of boardgames. Go Risk and then go Mordheim. Same general idea minus stats.

-J.

I've never actually played, but maybe Necromunda?

The thing is... 40k has HUGE startup costs... (Investing in a 500~ army is, anyway.)

Risk... is more boardgame than actual wargame...

Honestly, I'd start where you want to end up... it's much easier that way... no need to take any long way around...

(Assuming 40k.) Perhaps you can get a few people together to buy 2 (or more) AoBR.. or perhaps even subsidize them yourself.

I'd say board games.

Memoir 44 and Battlelore.

What about Settlers of Catan? It's got strategy... although it's probably more like a computer real-time strategy game than anything else

If your leaning towards GW, would Necromunda, or BloodBowl be easier than 40k/WFB?

@John: Strategically trading is there to try and make up for any lack of an edge you are starting to get. The game is very, very social and I don't know if it needs to be modified at all. Resource cards also add a good element of screwing the person who's winning (or maybe I've played too much Munchkin). Granted some games you'll see more 11's than 6's (has happened to me twice), and you have to get creative.

If you don't get anything, you don't have anything to trade.