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would people have issues with me using my defiler models as soulgrinders?

1) As proxy, sure, go ahead
2) Converted to look more like Soulgrinders, sure, go ahead
3)Because you don't want to get another model for you deamons army, sure, but only for a while as per #1, and I get to harrass you about it.

yes it is basicly 3) I already have three defilers. they are pretty much the same model. so why buck up for three more?

of course. They are pretty WYSIWYG

big gun in center-check
machine gun- check
big bashy thing in right arm-check

Defiler:


soulgrinder:

Mars.Techpriest wrote:1) As proxy, sure, go ahead.

This, and only if I knew you well. If you pulled this at a random game I'd tell you to Go Buy a Soul grinder or not play. People wouldn't be happy me Proxying a Dreadnought as a Carnifex would they?

They work just fine as long as they have at least one close combat arm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gwar! the trolle: This, and only if I knew you well. If you pulled this at a random game I'd tell you to Go Buy a Soul grinder or not play. People wouldn't be happy me Proxying a Dreadnought as a Carnifex would they?

This is an invalid comparison.
Dreadnoughts are metal squares, Carnifi are shelled flesh ovals. (Bricks to Brazil Nuts)
Defilers are metal encased demons, Soul Grinders are metal encased demons. (Soul Canister to Soul Canisters)
My case is clear.
Gwar! is wrong.

Gwar! wrote:

Mars.Techpriest wrote:1) As proxy, sure, go ahead.

This, and only if I knew you well. If you pulled this at a random game I'd tell you to Go Buy a Soul grinder or not play. People wouldn't be happy me Proxying a Dreadnought as a Carnifex would they?

Respectfully, whats the issue Gwar? They are generally WYSIWYG. They literally have the same chassis.

Frazzled wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Mars.Techpriest wrote:1) As proxy, sure, go ahead.

This, and only if I knew you well. If you pulled this at a random game I'd tell you to Go Buy a Soul grinder or not play. People wouldn't be happy me Proxying a Dreadnought as a Carnifex would they?

Respectfully, whats the issue Gwar? They are generally WYSIWYG. They literally have the same chassis.

Wasn't this issue discussed before? I thought the result was "if it matches the demons, who cares?"

I'm also starting to get the impression that Gwar is more concerned with being persnickity about rules than anything else.

My problem is that the Soulgrinder is 60 USD, where the Defiler is 55 USD.

Now I'm not saying that you can't use a defiler. What I'm saying is you should put some work into converting you defiler so it can be both. Ad more daemonic things to it, simple enough.

I think its a personal preference thing. Some people really don't like the Defiler model but like the Unbound, and vice versa. AsPolnius noted, there has been a discussion about using soulgrinders as defilers. their physical parameters are nearly identical.

Gwar! wrote:

Mars.Techpriest wrote:1) As proxy, sure, go ahead.

This, and only if I knew you well. If you pulled this at a random game I'd tell you to Go Buy a Soul grinder or not play. People wouldn't be happy me Proxying a Dreadnought as a Carnifex would they?

Proxying a Dreadnought as a Carnifex ... now there's a conversion Imperials using the nid codex ... If only I had the time and money

the defiler and soulgrinder are the same cost in dollars.

If I'm not mistaken the Soulgrinder went up in the price hike and the Defiler didn't.

Frazzled wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Mars.Techpriest wrote:1) As proxy, sure, go ahead.

This, and only if I knew you well. If you pulled this at a random game I'd tell you to Go Buy a Soul grinder or not play. People wouldn't be happy me Proxying a Dreadnought as a Carnifex would they?

Respectfully, whats the issue Gwar? They are generally WYSIWYG. They literally have the same chassis.

Heh, my issue is people coming to a Game with Half Painted models, 30% proxy army and then having the balls to accuse me of trying to Twist rules and be a Rules lawyer when I take my Painted and lovingly complete army (poorly painted but at least I made an effort). I mean, I went to the effort and Expense of getting the 6 Drop Pods I need for my 1500 list, (8 or 9 in 2000) and the expense of forge world bits to make my Ironclad and Plasma Cannon Dreadnoughts, am I really TFG if I ask that my Opponent actually buy the Models he wants to use?

Frazzled wrote:I think its a personal preference thing. Some people really don't like the Defiler model but like the Unbound, and vice versa. AsPolnius noted, there has been a discussion about using soulgrinders as defilers. their physical parameters are nearly identical.

That's why I give the same answer to this one as I did to that thread: anyone who has an actual issue with Soul Grinders or Defilers 'counting as' the other should probably consider whether or not perhaps that stick is inserted just a couple centimeters too far up their posterior. It's not even an issue of having to stretch the imagination, such as my fielding kroot mercenaries with my IG, having them count as penal legionnaires. Even without modification, from a WYSIWYG stance, they're almost completely interchangeable.

Glue some pubic hair on top the defiled and yuo aer good to go.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Glue some pubic hair on top the defiled and yuo aer good to go.

G

it is already on there but not held by glue

Yea, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all, unless your defilers are all Khornate while your daemon army is all Slaaneshi. Even then I would just tease you about it.

Really, I think the defiler makes a better soul grinder than the soul grinder, as I don't see how a naked torso has better armor than a steel box...

To appease people like Gwar who feels that his shedding blood for his army puts a requirement on you, I would add some GS to the defilers (assuming they are coming from a kit) to put them in a pupate stage, the state of becoming unbound. Honestly though, if you show up with a fully painted and assembled daemon army (I can understand him there) with 3 good looking defilers as soul grinders and your opponent doesn't want to play, that's a good sign that they are not worth playing against.

In a way, your 3 defiler/soul grinders could act as a safety feature in your army, protecting you from wasting 2 hours in a game awash with douchery.

Buggers and gis wil work 4 sho .

G

yeah they will be three world eater defilers in a khornezilla list.

i want to do the same thing, in the other direction. i play CSM and like the soul grinder model much better. of course i would make it wysiwyg and paint it to the best of my ability and, quite frankly, if my opponent seriously gives me crap, i dont want to play with them.

Exactly. Unless skkipper is on the other side tachin ur doodz, you should have nothing to worry about

I'm too lazy to check, but you could get the torso/arm/head (legs if you feel so inclined) bits for the Soulgrinders, tear off the Defiler torso (and claws if you feel so inclined), then magnetize everything for swappable units.

KaloranSLC wrote:I'm too lazy to check, but you could get the torso/arm/head (legs if you feel so inclined) bits for the Soulgrinders, tear off the Defiler torso (and claws if you feel so inclined), then magnetize everything for swappable units.

Yeah but that would take effort, which the whole reason for using a Defiler as a Grinder is meant to circumvent.

I'll never understand why there is an immediate presumption that every action that's not totally normal is somehow an effort to be cheap/lazy/cheat. If a guy has both a chaos SM and Demons army, why wouldn't he paint three models up to be usable for both> Not every counts as is a proxy.

Polonius wrote:I'll never understand why there is an immediate presumption that every action that's not totally normal is somehow an effort to be cheap/lazy/cheat. If a guy has both a chaos SM and Demons army, why wouldn't he paint three models up to be usable for both> Not every counts as is a proxy.

99% are though, which is why people get pissed off at it.

And god help you if you play a DKoK Player.

Gwar! wrote:

Polonius wrote:I'll never understand why there is an immediate presumption that every action that's not totally normal is somehow an effort to be cheap/lazy/cheat. If a guy has both a chaos SM and Demons army, why wouldn't he paint three models up to be usable for both> Not every counts as is a proxy.

99% are though, which is why people get pissed off at it.

And god help you if you play a DKoK Player.

What does the DKOK have to do with anything?

Polonius wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Polonius wrote:I'll never understand why there is an immediate presumption that every action that's not totally normal is somehow an effort to be cheap/lazy/cheat. If a guy has both a chaos SM and Demons army, why wouldn't he paint three models up to be usable for both> Not every counts as is a proxy.

99% are though, which is why people get pissed off at it.

And god help you if you play a DKoK Player.

What does the DKOK have to do with anything?

I am using it as an example. Someone comes with a Full FW DKoK Army that they have spent time and money investing in and making legal, and then you show up "oh Hay I'm too Cheap/lazy can I use this as this kthnx". Would you if you were the DKoK player not be mightily pissed off?

No. Why would I?

Gwar! wrote:

Polonius wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Polonius wrote:I'll never understand why there is an immediate presumption that every action that's not totally normal is somehow an effort to be cheap/lazy/cheat. If a guy has both a chaos SM and Demons army, why wouldn't he paint three models up to be usable for both> Not every counts as is a proxy.

99% are though, which is why people get pissed off at it.

And god help you if you play a DKoK Player.

What does the DKOK have to do with anything?

I am using it as an example. Someone comes with a Full FW DKoK Army that they have spent time and money investing in and making legal, and then you show up "oh Hay I'm too Cheap/lazy can I use this as this kthnx". Would you if you were the DKoK player not be mightily pissed off?

I dunno, maybe some random DKOK guy would be, but not me. As a guy with a fully painted Praetorian Army pushing 8000pts I enjoy playing against painted armies as much as the next guy, but I also know that not everybody has the free time, skill, money, and energy that I do, and cut people some slack.

I'd also rather get in a good competitive game against a few proxies than roll over my opponents painted garbage.