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Daemon Prince: Wings, Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission

Sorceror: Wings, Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission

5x Chosen: 5x Melta, 3x Meltabombs
Rhino

5x Plague Marines: 2x Melta
Rhino

5x Plague Marines: 2x Melta
Rhino

5x Plague Marines: 2x Melta
Rhino

8x Khorne Berserkers: Personal Icon, Champion: Powerfist

2x Obliterators

2x Obliterators

Land Raider: Extra Armor

TOTAL: 1748
MODELS (Infantry/Vehicles): 39 (34/5)
KILLPOINTS: 14

This is the latest Lash build I've been playing with. I switched from Terminators to Chosen because they seem to be better against new IG. I've also dropped a pair of Oblits in favor of mechanizing the entire army, and squeezing in a Land Raider for the Berzerkers. This lets the army get a bit more aggressive if need be, and makes it much easier to set charges up with the zerkers. It also gives me an AV14 fortress to stash a scoring unit in late on if needed. One Land Raider is starting to feel a bit sketchy with all the melta love running around, but by design against most armies I shouldn't really be getting that close unless I'm basically on the verge of killing my opponent. Also it currently sits at 1 prince and 1 sorceror, should I be running 2 Sorcerors at this point? I like casting Lash out of the tops of the Rhinos, but the Prince seems to be good still (especially since it can hide behind the LR to help protect it).

I would really like to get those extra 2 Oblits back into the list, and I'm considering dropping a unit of Plague Marines to do so. Thoughts on this? Thoughts on the list in general? I know lash composition has been beaten into the ground at this point, but I'm going to asking anyway, largely based on how the army is/should shift to deal with the change in meta presented by the new IG codex.

2 lashes. - 300-ish points
No template weapons. - 0 points
Doin it rong. - priceless.

Yeah you def need template weapons and if you could upgrade sorcerer to a prince

Well you have plasma cannons for taking advantage of lash, and lots of anti-tank.

But that's it. You really need something to help out more against hordes and with mowing down troops. Two units of obliterators isn't going to cut it.

I would drop the prince. I can't believe I just said that because I love them so much, but, the psyker battle squads (I'm running 2) F them in the B if you know what I mean.

I do not really like single Land Raider lists and generally think that it is among the worst choices in the CSM codex so I would drop it in favor of more obbelz or a defiler and fill out the 2 obbel squads. I know defilers are meh but one would seem to fit this list well. Be sure to utilize large pieces of terrain as cover for the big guy if you take him.

I never understood why sorcs in these lists where ever used, 2x deamonn prince is FAR more effective: Case and Point, friend got tired of my nids, decided cheese lash was his answer, jumped his sorc and prince out for my synapse(sorc still in cover, but able to be shot i mean) sorc gets shot next turn by 3 venom cannon shots, failed one save...dead outright. Oblits failed to seriously damage my choir of doom, killed one tyrant guard though. Leaves the one lasher fairly exposed as 24" range puts him in precarious positions, expecially when being in charge range of implant attack units, and multi suicide squads to keep him in CC.

In my opinion 2 close up and personal single hq units just dont cut it anymore, they are just too exposed. I mean, look at IG, with all the melta rediculous they can carry, guaruntee the sorc will be dead in one round of firing, and meltas will mess up a DP in one round of firing as well... In my experience, its just better to go with tough as nails MoN, Wings, Warptime DPs as they are unbelievably hard to get rid of and something you REALLy dont want in your face.

Canonness Rory wrote:2 lashes. - 300-ish points
No template weapons. - 0 points
Doin it rong. - priceless.

TheCadianParatrooper wrote:Yeah you def need template weapons and if you could upgrade sorcerer to a prince

Apparently plasma cannon dont count as blast weapons any more. Must have missed that memo...

gameandwatch wrote:
In my opinion 2 close up and personal single hq units just dont cut it anymore, they are just too exposed. I mean, look at IG, with all the melta rediculous they can carry, guaruntee the sorc will be dead in one round of firing, and meltas will mess up a DP in one round of firing as well... In my experience, its just better to go with tough as nails MoN, Wings, Warptime DPs as they are unbelievably hard to get rid of and something you REALLy dont want in your face.

MoN princes are just as vulnerable to meltas as lash princes. Dual Lash has problem with mech IG because it wont have many lash targets, massed multilaser fire takes down your princes, transports and oblits. Against every other army though, its better to have two lash princes.

@Caffran

That chosen squad could do with being another two oblits. They rely too much on luck to be good. You have to get the roll for them to come in when you want and also the roll to get the right table edge for outflank. With oblits you know what you're going to get. The extra plasma cannon shots also help you out against hordes. Any points left over should be spent changing the sorcerer to a prince (despite IG killing princes with ease, they are still better than sorcerers) and on more plague marines.

Other than that it looks good.

Psyker battle squad doesn't do anything to a daemon prince. The reduction in leadership doesn't carry over into the next turn.

I think this is a nice poitn of discussion.

The ruling of Weaken Resolve sais: "[] Had his LD reduced for the remainder of the turn []"

The question is: is this about a player-turn or a game-turn?

Normally, when talking about a turn (eg. 6 turns for a game), it's gane turns, while some other effects especially state they last 1 player-turn.

Maybe we have to move this question to rules-forum, but had to ask it.

Grt Pim

When talking about turns, they default to player turns. If it was game turns, then what would happen if IG went second?

gameandwatch wrote:I never understood why sorcs in these lists where ever used, 2x deamonn prince is FAR more effective: Case and Point, friend got tired of my nids, decided cheese lash was his answer, jumped his sorc and prince out for my synapse(sorc still in cover, but able to be shot i mean) sorc gets shot next turn by 3 venom cannon shots, failed one save...dead outright. Oblits failed to seriously damage my choir of doom, killed one tyrant guard though. Leaves the one lasher fairly exposed as 24" range puts him in precarious positions, expecially when being in charge range of implant attack units, and multi suicide squads to keep him in CC.

In my opinion 2 close up and personal single hq units just dont cut it anymore, they are just too exposed. I mean, look at IG, with all the melta rediculous they can carry, guaruntee the sorc will be dead in one round of firing, and meltas will mess up a DP in one round of firing as well... In my experience, its just better to go with tough as nails MoN, Wings, Warptime DPs as they are unbelievably hard to get rid of and something you REALLy dont want in your face.

The sorcs can join squads. This gives them ablative wounds and the ability to cast from the rhino by using it's firing point. Their force weapons also add a nice punch in CC to squads of nurgle marines.

JourneyPsycheOut wrote:When talking about turns, they default to player turns. If it was game turns, then what would happen if IG went second?

In case anyone is wondering about this, pg. 6 of the BgB is the page reference. And I quote, "Whenever the word "turn" is used, in this book or in any codex, it is referring to game turn unless specifically stated otherwise." okay, quoted poorly but that is it more-or-less.

Canonness Rory wrote:2 lashes. - 300-ish points
No template weapons. - 0 points
Doin it rong. - priceless.

Please read the entire army list, consider its contents, and what each unit/model in the army is capable of, before you hit the reply button and type in a reply. You're literally 100% wrong and you've made a rather snobby and disrespectful post. I also think you're failing to understand the intricacies of Lash of Submission and the scope of its usefulness. Grouping units up for blast weapon salvos is only a part of it.

TheCadianParatrooper wrote:Yeah you def need template weapons and if you could upgrade sorcerer to a prince

There are template weapons, plasma cannons are blast templates. 4 does fine work, but as I said I wish I had 2 more back in the list.

Kungfuhustler wrote:I would drop the prince. I can't believe I just said that because I love them so much, but, the psyker battle squads (I'm running 2) F them in the B if you know what I mean.

I do not really like single Land Raider lists and generally think that it is among the worst choices in the CSM codex so I would drop it in favor of more obbelz or a defiler and fill out the 2 obbel squads. I know defilers are meh but one would seem to fit this list well. Be sure to utilize large pieces of terrain as cover for the big guy if you take him.

PBS lasts until the end of the IG turn and is completely irrelevent to the prince. If they take a PBS against my army they're pretty much out whatever points they spent on it since the entire army is fearless. My other army is IG and this has been tested thoroughly.

gameandwatch wrote:I never understood why sorcs in these lists where ever used, 2x deamonn prince is FAR more effective: Case and Point, friend got tired of my nids, decided cheese lash was his answer, jumped his sorc and prince out for my synapse(sorc still in cover, but able to be shot i mean) sorc gets shot next turn by 3 venom cannon shots, failed one save...dead outright. Oblits failed to seriously damage my choir of doom, killed one tyrant guard though. Leaves the one lasher fairly exposed as 24" range puts him in precarious positions, expecially when being in charge range of implant attack units, and multi suicide squads to keep him in CC.

In my opinion 2 close up and personal single hq units just dont cut it anymore, they are just too exposed. I mean, look at IG, with all the melta rediculous they can carry, guaruntee the sorc will be dead in one round of firing, and meltas will mess up a DP in one round of firing as well... In my experience, its just better to go with tough as nails MoN, Wings, Warptime DPs as they are unbelievably hard to get rid of and something you REALLy dont want in your face.

The Sorc can hide in a unit of PMs, making him very hard to remove. The Princes are very simple to single out and kill, and the same things that kill Lash Princes kill Nugle Princes, so when it comes to it the Nurgle Prince is hardly more survivable. It also doesn't synergize with the rest of the list as well as Lash does. To be completely honest, I almost want to drop the Prince for a second Sorc. The Prince is just really good in some games but not so amazing in others, so I like the 1-1 split.

Regwon wrote:

@Caffran

That chosen squad could do with being another two oblits. They rely too much on luck to be good. You have to get the roll for them to come in when you want and also the roll to get the right table edge for outflank. With oblits you know what you're going to get. The extra plasma cannon shots also help you out against hordes. Any points left over should be spent changing the sorcerer to a prince (despite IG killing princes with ease, they are still better than sorcerers) and on more plague marines.

Other than that it looks good.

What makes you say Princes are better than Sorcs in all scenarios now? I'm curious about this because with the trend towards all mech and piles of melta weapons, being able to hide the Sorc has been solid.

I see your point on the Chosen and I agree, sortof. They really are hit or miss in my playtesting so far. When they are good though, they're game breaking (clearing 3 Russes out of the backfield after outflanking in 3 turns for example). However, when they are lacklustre, they seem to be a 200pt handicap lol. They are in the list largely as a reaction to the mech trend since if I outflank them into the enemy backfield, his army is going to have to turn to fight them but if he leaves them unchecked, they're going to kill a tank every turn.

Originally the list was a pair of 7-8 man PM units in Rhinos, but switching to 3 units of 5 gives me more scoring units without losing a massive amount of resilience (as well as 2 more Meltaguns and an extra Rhino). Dropping the Chosen gets me 2 more Oblits with 40 points to spend after that. I could buy 1 extra PM and then have 17 points (Sorc to Prince? wargear for Sorc? other ideas?) to spend.

Handing out enough KP there? Those small squads are going to do that much offensively and will get eaten much easier than slightly beefed up versions of themselves. My 1750 Lash List has 50+ bodies and this one has 30+.

eh sure its lots of KPs, but I'm not really overly worried about KP missions. Lists that tend to be light on KPs tend to be easier for a list like mine to table, and other lists that are high on KPs make for good games, but I have the tools within the list to deal with most of those lists. I'm really scared of Mech Eldar and to an extent, Mech Tau. Mechvet IG also causes problems (and is the specific reason for the inclusion of the Chosen actually) but aside from that I don't really feel too uncomfortable with other matchups. Vulkan Marines make for good games every time, as both armies play in a fairly similar manner (midrange firepower, not very overtly aggressive), but I don't feel like its a losing battle agaisnt them.

What are you going to do if run into a horde IG player? with 2-4 50 man blob platoons, Creed, alot of heavy weps, and a bunch of Executioners?

Your Chosen will of course go to the Exec's, but those huge blobs WILL kill something. Sure, your Lash will whip them around a little bit, but after that you'll only kill maybe 7-11 guard, then they'll unleash their flashlights on you, with rapid fire frfsrf. Although, you too are an IG player and I'm sure you've thought of this.

Horde IG seems difficult, and it can be. It largely depends on setting up a string of assaults for the Berserkers to tie up and finish off units that the Oblits weaken with their blast weapons. The Land Raider cuts LoS to the Prince and Oblits considerably, keeping them safe (I literally use it as a big chunk of opaque terrain to hide behind more often than not). Games like this are also where the Chosen can really shine since they appear in the backfield and my opponent has to deal with them asap or he's going to lose all of his tanks. OotF can really hamper this tactic though, so like I said before, it is hit or miss. The Execs are the biggest threat to me though, so they are priority if possible. I feel like I can find my way through a hundred Guardsmen well enough (and FRFSRF is not as amazing as it sounds against T5 FNP... 150 lasgun shots = 75 hits = 12.5 wounds = 1.5 dead Plague Marines).

To be honest I've not considered horde IG very carefully, my focus has been on the Mechanized and Air Cav varieties thus far. I think in my head, when considering this lash list, I've made them out to be similar to horde Orks, which I don't have much trouble with. The reality is that they're not similar to horde orks, and I think in every other circumstance I make that distinction clear as day, though somehow the lines have been crossed a little in considerations for this army lol. I still feel like it is a rather winnable game for me if I can negate the Executioners early on though.

I feel the Horde aspect of IG is not that big of an issue for your list, I do think Executioners are a huge problem, regardless if they are in a horde list or a mech list Unfortunately all those Plasma Cannons trivialize your 2+ armor on the oblits, can turn your Prince in a pile of useless flesh, and vaporize your FNP PMs. :( You might want to consider dropping one troop unit and adding a second unit of Chosen to try to deal with that threat more reliably. Even then I can see the IG player screening his Execs with Chims do deny you the 6" melta. I am running dual lash too and I am not sure if I have an answer to the new IG codex yet. Fortunately, I have Shep in my local gaming group and he plays IG to death, so I have a great playtest opportunity.

Here's my suggestion... on the chosen... drop down to 4 melta and 1 flamer. With the points saved, add a combi-weapon to a rhino or multiple pintle mounted bolters to give your rhino's the ability to withstand mulitple weapon destroyed results.

eh, the IG player can deny the advantage gained by Chosen simply by taking an Officer of the Fleet. If he does this they won't shot up in a timely manner, and he also has a chance to further wrong-foot them by making them re-roll their outflanking dice.

Executioners are a massive pain in the ass. Like I said, I feel like I can fight through a hundred guardsmen fine, but the Execs are trouble. If they don't have an IQ/OotF (they're be insane not to pack one or the other in a competitive environment though... IMO) then deepstriking Oblits and the Chosen can do the deed. Beyond that, it is a painful one. I think I would literally try and cram as much of my army behind the safety of the Land Raider for as long as possible and try to lash non-vehicle elements towards my guns. The execs can't touch the Land Raider and short of a Vanquisher/BBS Medusa (which the LR will have to try to stun with its lascannons at every opportunity) IG can't deal with a Land Raider reliably unless they're in 1/2 range with their meltas.

Alright first, why would you ever join the sorcs to a squad? Not only does this make their wings pointless(have to move at the slowest models speed), but then it forces your PM to target whatever the sorc targets with lash. This also makes them almost pointless to have lash because either they join them, in the transport and so arent lashing until out ofthe transport(inmost cases, can shoot out of a rhino I know), or are objective holding with the PM and therefore can only lash what comes in range which once again, means the PM can only shoot what the sorc targets...

MoN DPs are more survivable BTW, for one yes, meltas hurt them equally, but its the occasional wound from small arms fire that usually ends up putting princes down. Besides, princes jumping around forces them to be targets when not in CC and therefore if you take lash out of the equation, make them wings/MoN, you are automatically looking to put them in CC and not worrying about lash.

And as was aformentioned, with all the podding, air cav, deep striking armies, lash becomes only effective for one turn and then either the user is dead, forced to join a squad or locked in CC making lash useless. Its such a small unit count army, you either are sitting back for lash and oblits, while PM are moving up alone, moving up and lashing, putting them in assault/melta/rapid fire range, etc. In all honesty I would say if you are going lash, go noise marines, get some doom sirens in there, with some rhinos, wait for those drop pods, lash them neatly together and doom siren the hell out of them....

@gameandwatch -

Sorcs not joined to a squad die too easy. The wings on the sorc are still useful, depending on your tactics, since it allows you to leave one squad and with the extra range join another. So one idea is that you are attached to one squad for protection and once it gets to thin you jump to join another. The PMs are not really an offensive unit, they are mostly defensive and in the case where the Sorc is attached its extra wounds for the sorc. If the unit the sorc is attached to wants to fire its meltas at a vehicle, then during the move phase he uses his wings to jump back into another unit where he could use his lash against some infantry while the original PM unit fires its meltas at the vehicle.

MoN DPs are slightly more survivable, depending on meta, but Lash is Lash and he is runing a dual lash list Sometimes controlling the battlefield makes everyone more survivable, again depending on meta.

The tactics around using Lash are usually a lot more complex than you are stating. It's not an all or nothing proposition between either standing back and lashing or going into the assault. Lash is used for tactical advantage and specific tactics to gain that advantage depend on the meta. With the high mech meta, Lash/Prince tactics are even more complicated, given you have a choice between vehicle kill with prince, or hold for your other anti-vehicle to knock the peas out of the pod so the lash can then control the either assault or push back. Lash is not just about making piles of enemys, it can be usefull to string enemies in a line, moving fists/klaws within a unit, pushing units out of assault range, pulling units into assault range, creating double assault posibilities, etc, or one of my favorites - moving a KFF big mech away from the killakans to deny them the 4+ cover save. Lash is a generals friend for many reasons, all of which are why they have generated so much hate.

@Caffran - Also don't forget the potential pain of Devil Dogs, or other fast attack Melta Cannons or Multi-Meltas than IG can now bring. Depending on your oponent, even your LR might be subject to an early downfall. Trust me, I am hating it now But it really is part of the fun to figure out how to reliably defend against the new IG.

Joiningthe Sorc to aunit gives it ablative wounds when its shot at, and if it is a unit of PMs it is a pile of very resilient extra wounds. Also Lash is a power with 24" range, and will be shot out of the top of the rhino almost every time. The weapons that matter in the PM units have 12" range you can rest assured that if a situation arises in which they need to split fire, one of them will get kicked out of the rhino in order to do it (most likely the unit of PMs). The PMs have short ranged weapons, they are not going to be in range whem I'm using Lash most of the time. I don't see the big issue here because in any situation where they both need to shoot other things, there are a number of ways to make sure that happens. The wings are cheap on points and grant awesome mobility when needed (which is more frequently than you may think) and allow the Sorc to more readily be where he needs to be.

MoN Princes survive better against small arms fire and that is fine, the weapons that inflict heavy damage on Princes are high strength and low AP, and they kill Nurgle Princes the same as they kill any other Princes. MoN Princes also are unable to manipulate opposing units and as a result are unable to help me directly influence the way my opponent is playing the game. If I were to play MoN Princes, the overall composition of the army would most likely be very different. They simply are not a direct swap because of their points cost (They're much more expensive if you give them a psychic power, of which there are a few solid ones to choose from so it is probably ideal) and intended role on the table.

The large amount of podding/mechanized/air cav/DS armies makes Lash less effective in its direct role, but it still impacts the game as those transports and such start to die to the large amount of melta weapons in the list (15 + 3 Meltabombs, a Land Raider and a Daemon Prince). I can be more brave about rolling to half range with my meltas and popping a tank if I can then lash the unit away from my troops so it can't charge them the following turn (or if circumstances dictate, I can then lash them towards my troops so I can charge them).

@AbsoluteBlue: haha I think you're hating those DDs for the same reasons I'm on the verge of dropping my V series craft for them in my IG list They are seriously good, and if they don't get dealt with quick (which is hard to do when they pop smoke and are right in your grill), the list crumbles against them + Executioners. I'm more and more starting to feel like Lash is simply not going to be as strong a player with this trend towards full mech, especially with the new IG codex appearing to be so strong right now (time will tell if it has staying power but at the moment mech IG lists seem brutal). It is just so hard to answer to the tools mech IG has available, and the old difficult matchups against Mech Eldar and mech Tau remain. That is 3 very good armies that it struggles with at this point (though it still seems to smash Orks decently, as well as anything that isn't mechanized).

Honestly the answer to mech anything is melta spam. Our troop choices can take basically 3 (2x meltas, combi on the champ, even a 4th on the rhino if you're that desperate). Guns can only shoot at one unit a turn.

As I pointed out I know that lashing out of Rhinos is great, as well as the ability to jump from one unit to another. I also pointed out that what I was stating was in no way lash's only uses, that simply moving troops not to be shot by oblits is very useful, like having something such as a melta squad pushed as far back as it can go, or pushing counter charge units out of the picture. My problem with lash nowadays, is the same problem I have had with it since its inception: it simply doesnt cut it against smart mobile armies due to 24" range.

Im not trying to attack your character, or your knowledge on how to use it, Im simply stating what I have seen through personal experience as being more all round useful. Plague marines are death, they are rediculously hard to kill and using them as a meat shield is easily one of the best meat shields you can have. Fearless units though having a great advantage overall, you see in 5th really getting hammered in CC if they arent winning combats. EXAMPLE: Obviously im a nid player, I almost never seem to have a problem with PM with all the rending and implant attack I have. Played probably the most cheese a lash list can get a few weeks ago(aka dual lash prince, 6 oblits, 2 kitted out PM squads, etc.). We always play tourny style, as in never knowing what you are against, so unfortunatly my psycher choir was pretty damn useless this game, luckily I gave my tyrant shadow in the warp(stopped lash TWICE that game, lucky I know) because of the amount of units I had, 12 or 13 if I remember correctly, he was lashing my tyrant and gaurd pretty much every turn, and attempting to keep my uberfex away and warriors out of synapse range to the gaunts, problem was, their was simply too many unitsto tackle with lash, and by 3rd turn 75% of my army was on top of him, and by 4th his princes were dead, thanks to implant.

My only suggestion would be this, and then I will shutup and let you choose for yourself, either go all DP, or no DP, that is a good decision, one and one, not so good, as well, units of 5 PM with no PF champ is alos questionable. If you could, maybe try and get 2 units of 10, x2 melta in each and a PF champ. yes, you have less scoring units, but you also have less KP and 5 man PM units are not that hard to kill. Thats it, GL...

Omfg another double lash list... Seriously why post that army on here it's already broken as hell. If you need advise how to build one you are slowed... It may be the cheesest list also WTF... Powergaming is bs fething just play for fun and for the spirit of the game why not just play a balanced nurgle list or something that is at least a little fluffy. Los is broken we know and there is no need to post it up here so we can see how much of a bsing powergamer you are!

drummerholt1234 wrote:Omfg another double lash list... Seriously why post that army on here it's already broken as hell. If you need advise how to build one you are slowed... It may be the cheesest list also WTF... Powergaming is bs fething just play for fun and for the spirit of the game why not just play a balanced nurgle list or something that is at least a little fluffy. Los is broken we know and there is no need to post it up here so we can see how much of a bsing powergamer you are!

I can't tell if this guy is actually serious. I know they say not to feed the trolls but I couldn't help myself

@Cannerus - I think the H.B.M.C. Quote in your sig captures this moment well.

@Caffran9 - What do you think a decent answer to MotF/DH is then? My approach is to eat it and try two units of Chosen and get there sooner or later Without our own significant amount of multi-melta its an up hill battle. I need to put together a good list fast and start playtesting again.

drummerholt1234 wrote:Omfg another double lash list... Seriously why post that army on here it's already broken as hell. If you need advise how to build one you are slowed... It may be the cheesest list also WTF... Powergaming is bs fething just play for fun and for the spirit of the game why not just play a balanced nurgle list or something that is at least a little fluffy. Los is broken we know and there is no need to post it up here so we can see how much of a bsing powergamer you are!

QQ moar, little troll. Here, don't be sad, have a snack! Does that make you feel better?

I find it funny that you put cheese in that reply because you have plumty in your lists.

AbsoluteBlue wrote:

@Caffran9 - What do you think a decent answer to MotF/DH is then? My approach is to eat it and try two units of Chosen and get there sooner or later Without our own significant amount of multi-melta its an up hill battle. I need to put together a good list fast and start playtesting again.

We can get Multimeltas, they just aren't on really resilient or safe platforms so they're easy to neutralize (Oblits, and fire frenzy makes Dreads a sketchy option) and they also aren't twin linked or fast moving, so they hardly compare to the ones the Vulkan list can get a hold of. Taking 2 units of Chosen seems like a play for possibly beating OotF (and it will be stellar against IG without OotF since they show up quicker). At that point though I'd really consider making their role more diverse by taking probably 6 man units with 4 Meltas and 2 Flamers, then some meltabombs. If you take 2 units you're investing substantial points so you probably want to diversify them a little bit and 4 meltas should be enough. The flamers help other matchups and are ablative wounds for the meltaguns when need be. I'd say it is definitely worth considering dropping a unit of PMs for another unit of Chosen. At that point though the Land Raider starts to really become a points hog, so perhaps it should be tossed to get a Rhino for the Zerkers and then keep the 3rd unit of PMs? I just really love my mobile LoS blocking fortress, it has been really good for me against pretty much everything except for Vulkan marines.

I've been so lost in IG that I forgot I even had a Chaos army for a little while haha. I noticed my Princes in my display case looking all lonely and was like oh yea, that, lol. I'm going to perhaps playtest a couple of games this weekend using 2 units of Chosen (hopefully) and if that happens I'll be sure to share my experience with them.