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Thinking of starting Eldar. Had a change of heart towards them lol. Had a quick read of the codex.

Farseer Spirit Stones, Fortune & Doom 130

Elite

6 x Howling Banshees Exarch w/ Executioner & War Shout 123
10 x Striking Scorpions Exarch w/ biting blade - shadowstrike 197

Avengers Exarch - shruiken catapult, defend & bladestorm 155
Avengers Exarch - shruiken catapult, defend & bladestorm 155

Heavy Support

Fire Prism spirit stones 125
Fire Prism spirit stones 125

total 1010

Hey mate, glad to see you're considering walking the path of the warrior. I don't play this kind of list, but I know all of these units are considered strong choices in a small game. I do hear that an executioner works out as a better upgrade than mirrorswords though. Maybe cut the farseer back to two powers - fortune and doom.

Thanks bud. I'II check out the executioner as I have no idea what it does.

I'll see on the Farseer. On paper both those powers look good and be good to cast them in the same turn. If I drop it I doubt I'd get much more any way tbh.




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Had a look at the executioner and for same points I'm gonna go with that.

I also might drop the farseer for a avatar. For same points I get something a lot stronger. Though, the farseer can support other units better in game with the psychic powers.

never bother with star engines, you cant use them if you embark or disembark on the same turn. Secondly your doing the classic monstrous core, at 1500 points it works wonders, I dont play 1000 points so Im not sure how it performs at that level but you'll easily be able to extend this army up to 1500 points. Which is a plus


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Also if your running a farseer (id only run him at 1500 points, at 1000 points just have the avatar) put runes of witnessing on him. it lowers your chance of failing from 8 percent to less than 2 percent.

If I disembark I cannot assault and would stand there and get shot, so, no worries on getting out. I can hide away inside the serpent.

I'm thinking of taking a avatar instead. I will check what rune of witnessing does.

If your Wave Serpent cargo disembarks before it moves it can move 24 inches, not 32 as something has still disembarked that turn.

read this thread for a discussion on star engines, and why they are useless: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/243632.page

and yes in 1000 points use just the avatar, if you expand to 1500 points use the Farseer as well, as the avatar will need to be fortuned, or he will get blown away.

The serpent I would purely use for transport only. So if I moved 30" or even the 18" I would stop in as I still cannot disembark.

I thought fast vehicles only move 18" now?

Fast vehicles that are skimmers can move 24 inches.

You'll have to let me off on that one as I have no skimmers so I don't know that rule

I thought you said that link was a discussion for why star engines are useless? Its more of a rule query. All I'd do is embark them, move 12" and then next turn hit the star engines, stop in, let the serpent take the hits and then disembark next round and assault.

your playstyle is alot like mine except i have both avatar and farseer witnessing is wonderful and just throwing the farseer with direavengers makesing things die plus having wraithlords being the str 10 monsterous creatures you prolly dont need 2 brightlances get sumthign that will work for both infantry and vehicles like pairing a missle launcher with a shuriken cannon then put 2 flamers as the free ones has always served well for me

you need bladestorm no matter what and defend is just a nice upgrade while shimmer shield and the power weapon are good and all but its far better to have an assault 4 avenger shuriken gun

vectored engines are much better than star engines and get spirit stones on it if you have points and put a weapon on in

grumble grumble

I would have said that star engines were worth it on a fleet close combat squad. On the first turn you move 36", which will allow your squad to disembark, move, fleet and assault in the second turn. If you were only moving 24", a canny opponent would draw back so your banshees were out of range, you'd have to move the transport again (banshees couldn't assault out of a closed transport) and your opponent would have another turn to shoot up the transport.

Maybe Avatar would be a good idea instead of a farseer. Thats a fair few MCs, and he can make your troops fearless.

At 1000 points just take the Avatar, at 1500 points you'll need a farseer to fortune the Avatar, otherwise the huge amount of fire power will bring the avatar down under a weight of fire.

I do too a point agree that star engines are somewhat useful on melee units, however I'm not sure they are worth the points still. Especially as there are draw backs to the opponent moving back, for instance he cant shoot heavy weapons or hold an objective if hes forced backwards of it.

Welcome to Eldar, mercer. They're fun but fragile.

If you take an Avenger Exarch with powerweapon and shimmershield, take Defend as well. This makes the unit an effective tarpit. They will not win CC on their own, but can hold units for your Banshees to finish off. If you can'/t afford Defend, try ditching the PW/SS and taking Bladestorm instead, or even not taking an Exarch and saving the points.

Speaking of which- if you take Banshees, it's a good idea to take a Farseer with Doom as well. Banshees are only S3, and even though they have powerweapons, often lack in the hitting-power. Doom really helps with this.

An Avatar is great for reinforcing lots of low-cost troops like Guardians, not so much units like Banshees (which either wipe the enemy out or get wiped themselves, usually). So he might be a good buy for higher points-levels, although he won't be terrible even at 1K. I just hink the Farseer is better. The Avatar IS a good idea alongside lots of Wraithlords (and maybe a unit of Warwalkers) as they are similar creatures that the enemy will have to split their fire (the weapons effective for killing MCs) between. So your mileage may vary. Play whatever looks fun to you.

Overall, it looks like you are building towards an advancing foot list, possibly with a transport or two for Banshees etc. When you only have one transported unit, you really, really want them to still be effective (not pinned) if they get shot down. For this reason, buying vectored engines for that unit is a great idea. If you fall out of the sky due to immobilization during a 24" move, you're not pinned. Even more importantly, ALWAYS buy spirit stones for your vehicles. A transport that can't move is a useless transport. 10 points to prevent that is pure gold. Plus, if you can't shoot you can still tank shock, which helps clear enemy troops off of objectives.

As for star engines, 24" plus 12"+fleet (the contained unit's move the next turn) is already quite good. Save the points.

Good luck!

To me the Farseer would be a better choice than the avatar, for two reasons, 1. if you run them with the DA, and have baldestorm on your DA, then you should use guide on them, doom the squad that the DA's will be shooting at and bladestorm, not many squads will still be standing after that, and 2. an avatar is the most expensive meatshield you can ever buy, i don't use one simply becaus whenever i have seen one being used it dies before it can do anything

Another reason to run a farseer is to cover at least a few wraithsight rolls on the WLs. Two WL in a list with no psuchers means that you can count on a couple freeze ups per game on average.

Runes of warding are usually a good buy for the farseer as well, especially with the new cheap IG psych battle squads running around.


Sliggoth

I've had a more better look at the codex and changed my list as I need more fire power, and I think a farseer will be better now due to those changes. Also I've dropped the banshees for scorpions as they have better armour and save cost in points.

HQ

Farseer - spirit stones, doom & fortune

Striking Scorpions - Exarch - biting blade & shadowstrike

10 x Avengers - Exarch - twin catapult, defend & doulbe fire power

10 x Avengers - Exarch - twin catapult, defend & doulbe fire power

10 x Avengers - Exarch - twin catapult, defend & doulbe fire power

1 x Fire Prism

1 x Fire Prism

nic looking list, however i would try and squeeze in runes of witnessing, and if you pla on going against many pskers, i would say Runes of warding. also i would drop one fire prism for a wraithlord of some description and keep it near to the farseer

I always like to run tanks in pairs. With one tank and one monstrous creature both would be bullet magnets.

I agree Mercer, either run two Fire Prisms or two MC, not one of each.

I would be tempted to drop one unit of dire avengers and put the other two in transports. Not only could you put some much needed anti tank on the wave serpents but with Fire Prisms and no Avatar now you should really mech up. Definitely get Runes of Witnessing, it cuts your chances of failure from near ten percent to less than two percent. That'll be a lovely mech list similar to what I run at 1500 points

Alternatively I would swap both Fire Prisms for Wraithlords, cut the Farseer and put an Avatar in. Then Cut one unit of Dire Avengers for a unit of howling banshees. That'll give you a real nice MC list. For upgrading it to 1500 points you should get a farseer to fortune your Avatar and some fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent.

I think havin two troop units in a 1k game is enough really. As you said I could put more anti tank on the serpents, I'd probably go bright lance, though, dropping one unit of avengers wouldn't get me two serpents.

I don't think runs of witnessing are needed so much, the farseer has ld10 which is enough for psychic powers. If was say leadership 8 or 7 I would then.

What you suggested was my original plan. But, the striking scorpions are much better than banshees for the points.

mercer wrote:I think havin two troop units in a 1k game is enough really. As you said I could put more anti tank on the serpents, I'd probably go bright lance, though, dropping one unit of avengers wouldn't get me two serpents.

I don't think runs of witnessing are needed so much, the farseer has ld10 which is enough for psychic powers. If was say leadership 8 or 7 I would then.

What you suggested was my original plan. But, the striking scorpions are much better than banshees for the points.

Some math on Runes of Witnessing. I'll let you be the judge on whether its worth it or not. Personally I think its the corner stone of Farseers.

Without runes a farseer will fail to use his power 8.3% of the time. When using spirit stones a farseer will perhaps be making 10-12 of these rolls during a game in which he survives. That means he will very likely fail at least one power usage.

With runes a farseer will fail to use his power 1.9% of the time. Even with a dozen rolls he is unlikely to fail one.


Without runes a farseer will suffer a perils of the warp 5.6% of the time. Of course, his ghosthelm stops most of these, lowering it to 1.87% actual attacks. Of which his invuln save will lower this to a 1.4% chance of taking one wound.

With runes a farseer will suffer a perils of the warp 7.9% of the time. This is because that while the odds of a double one are greatly increased, the only way to get double 6s is to actually roll a triple 6. Of course the ghosthelm stops most of these, lowering it to 2.63% actual attacks. Of which his invuln save will lower this to a 1.97% chance of taking one wound

As for Striking Scorpions versus Howling Banshees its a bit of a give and take depending on what your facing.

Versus GEQs

a squad of 10 Striking scorpions against GEQ army.

30 attacks. 20 hits, 13.3 wounds. 8.9 unsaved wounds.

A squad of 10 howling banshees against GEQ armies

20 attacks 10 hits, 6.6 wounds., 6.6 unsaved wounds.


Versus MEQs.

a squad of 10 Striking scorpions against MEQ army.

30 attacks. 15 hits, 7 .5 wounds. 2.5 unsaved wounds.

A squad of 10 howling banshees against MEQ armies

20 attacks 10 hits, 3.3 wounds., 3.3 unsaved wounds.

Against TEQ's(terminators and their equivelents)

a squad of 10 Striking scorpions against TEQ army.

30 attacks. 15 hits, 7 .5 wounds. 1.25 unsaved wounds.

A squad of 10 howling banshees against TEQ armies

20 attacks 10 hits, 3.3 wounds., 2.2 unsaved wounds.


So Howling Banshees get better the more powerful your opponent gets. Against units with IC's in them this would become more pronounced than my above example shows.

Might be worth investing in them. I went with scorpions because of the better armour save. Though I guess the banshees have power weapons.

Becuase each of them has a power weapon, so they ignore armour saves. However they get less attacks at lower strength. so they cause less wounds but ignore armour saves.

So the higher the opponents armour save the more powerful howling banshees are compared to striking scorpions

Yeah I noticed after and editted my post, though you move like gak off a shovel lol.

New list:

Farseer Spirit Stones, Fortune & Doom 130

Elite

6 x Howling Banshees Exarch w/ Executioner & War Shout 123
10 x Striking Scorpions Exarch w/ biting blade - shadowstrike 197

Avengers Exarch - shruiken catapult, defend & bladestorm 155
Avengers Exarch - shruiken catapult, defend & bladestorm 155

Heavy Support

Fire Prism spirit stones 125
Fire Prism spirit stones 125

total 1010

Lacks transport, which is going to be one of the problems. But in a 1k game I haven't got loads of points to spend on 90 point transports to mech it up. So hopefully, more infantry the better.

Heh im about to go out. Before I go though i'd like to point out that Striking scorpions have a better armour save, however they do not have fleet. This means howling banshees can charge a fair bit more than Striking Scorpions. That should also be taken into consideration.

As my suggestion before, one of each might be a wise idea.

No they don't, but they do have plasma grenades, which I cannot find in the Eldar codex - what do they do? Same as frags?

Plasma is same as frags. But it really doesnt matter as Banshees have Banshee masks. Check the rules out for them, far superior to Grenades

Instead of banshees and/ or scorps, take a look at harlies. In a ground pounding army harlies with a shdowseer have the definite advantage of not taking long range fire. As a plus they give a cover save to any other unit right behind them, so they can work well as a screen for another cc unit following right behind them. This gives you a major cc threat that few arnies can ignore.

Harlies arent cheap tho, thats their real downside.

Just as a side note, dont drop the farseer and then run an avatar and two WLs. WLs now are affected by wraithsight, so with no psychers at all in your list you can expect to lose control of each of them one turn per game.

Runes of witnessing are cheap insurance, if you are using stones to cast two powers a turn then without runes you will on average fail one power per game. With runes you will fail one power every few games.

At 1000 points its often best to try to "game" the game. Dont build a balanced army, go for maximizing 1-2 areas so as to over stress your opponents ability to deal with those areas. Some armies (IE orcs) can do a nasty horde at this level, eldar are better off fielding 3 heavies since its argueably the slot where the eldar have the best buys for the points. Fielding 3 prisms would probably be more than most other armies could handle. Just a thought.


Sliggoth

I wouldn't want to take more expensive Harlequins and use them as a bullet shield when they should be in combat. Best thing for them is to throw them in a serpent.

I've dropped the Wraithlords all together, my editted post with my new list has them replaced with fire prisms.

Wow wow wow, dont bother with the howling banshees and scorpions if your not having Wraithlords.

The wraithlords are the core support of your army they protect your infantry, Also you should have an avatar.

Your list at the moment needs transports to be viable, otherwise you'll just be blown of the field. Nothing in your army has survivability.


I'd use this list

Avatar.

Harliquins
Striking Scorpions

Dire Avengers
Dire Avengers

Wraithlord
Wraithlord


I forgot about Harliquins when I pointed out howling banshees.

Harliquins are shrouded, they cannot be shot at outside of 24 inch range and usually its more likely that they cannot be shot at outside of 12 inch range. Also their shadowseer counts as a psyker for your Wraithlords.