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So, I have a bit of a problem and I'll try to do it without whining.

I'm just not having fun with Warhammer any more. For a while, I tried to mix things up so that I could have fun. You know, make a Praetorian army and whatnot. It was fun.

But, I don't even enjoy painting or building anymore, and I barely even log on anymore (if you cared).

And I think that it's because of the rules. They stress me out, they really do. And that's my problem.

Inbetween the cover saves and arguing over them (I'm sorry, but rocks half a Space Marine's height do not give them saves.), and all of these weird rules,
and this lame FAQ that my friend uses (to his benefit, of course. Yep, deepstriking Deathwing Terminators with 3+ invulnerable saves sounds really fair) and it
doesn't even help me out. I also think that my friend makes it so that he always gets saves.

I mean, I lost a game because of the stupid 3+ invul storm shields. Now I'm not going to lie, I'm not the best loser in the world. Right when he started assaulting my IG with his terminators turn 2 (who happened to get within 12" of my men after my friend used his Ravenwing bikers to put them there), I just said game over and I stopped playing as I knew what would happen.

But does anyone know what could help me, you know, start having fun with this game? I want to have fun, I've spent hundreds of dollars and I want to enjoy it. But it all goes back to the rules, which just suck out all of the fun for me as I don't play the best armies with their hax0r rules.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Get a different opponent.

I know people will tell you 2 things...

They'll either tell you to try another army.
Or if you cant beat them , join them ( the deep striking Deathwings )

But all those *options , are only going around the main problem, which lies between GW's inability to balance armies + writing a coherent rule.

Im sorry, i have no idea how , maybe try WarMachine or AT-43? or perhaps flames of war?

BrookM wrote:Get a different opponent.

I wish that it was that easy.

@Lunahound-

I would do that but the problem is that I don't want to sink my money into another game. Currently I'm translating the Warhammer rules into a Star War miniature game.

Vladsimpaler wrote:Inbetween the cover saves and arguing over them (I'm sorry, but rocks half a Space Marine's height do not give them saves.), and all of these weird rules, and this lame FAQ that my friend uses (to his benefit, of course. Yep, deepstriking Deathwing Terminators with 3+ invulnerable saves sounds really fair) and it
doesn't even help me out. I also think that my friend makes it so that he always gets saves.

Wait, what? Deathwing with 3+ Invulnerable saves?

Where exactly is the "FAQ" from? The Deathwing army has never had 3+ Invuls, they weren't designed to have 3+ invuls, nobody playtested an army of terminators with 3+ invuls, what exactly is going on here?


Aside from that obvious point, maybe you should break out a different ruleset. Play Mordheim or Necromunda or something, you can still use your 40k models with a little adaptation. Then go back to 40k when you're less sick of it.

Agree with Luna,try a different system.I to am heavily burnt out on 40k.Thinking of starting fantasy or even LOTR.Maybe even PP stuff or AT-43.Short of that,get a new gaming group.

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:Inbetween the cover saves and arguing over them (I'm sorry, but rocks half a Space Marine's height do not give them saves.), and all of these weird rules, and this lame FAQ that my friend uses (to his benefit, of course. Yep, deepstriking Deathwing Terminators with 3+ invulnerable saves sounds really fair) and it
doesn't even help me out. I also think that my friend makes it so that he always gets saves.

Wait, what? Deathwing with 3+ Invulnerable saves?

Where exactly is the "FAQ" from? The Deathwing army has never had 3+ Invuls, they weren't designed to have 3+ invuls, nobody playtested an army of terminators with 3+ invuls, what exactly is going on here?

It's some Swedish FAQ that makes it so that other Space Marine armies get to use Codex Ultramarine rules.

But I do agree with you. At first, I said what the heck as I was trying to be nice. But now I'm opposed to them.

Aside from that obvious point, maybe you should break out a different ruleset. Play Mordheim or Necromunda or something, you can still use your 40k models with a little adaptation. Then go back to 40k when you're less sick of it.

That's actually a good idea. I am doing a different ruleset as well, one of my own design. It's pretty fun, as I mentioned before SW meets Rogue Trader rules.

Your opponent sounds like a pain. But its your responsiblity to know the rules. And call him on things that don't seem right.

But mostly I think remember its a game.

So your options are:

Play to win (cheese out).

Or

Expect to lose against your current opponent. And enjoy your demise.

Vladsimpaler wrote:That's actually a good idea. I am doing a different ruleset as well, one of my own design. It's pretty fun, as I mentioned before SW meets Rogue Trader rules.

Ah, a homebrew always sounded like fun.

I should give it a shot some time.

Vladsimpaler wrote:
It's some Swedish FAQ that makes it so that other Space Marine armies get to use Codex Ultramarine rules.

have you told him to "shove it up his arse"? that sounds like rubbish to me. and the most beardy thing in history

try bloodbowl, mordhiem, necromunda-hell maybe even inquisitor or just stop and maybe keep up with fluff, etc. i did it and now im back!

try not to take it so seriously to-nothing you save gives that impression, maybe put gaming on a back burner for a while then come back. even a month could be enough to re ignite your appetite?

The FAQ says that it is optional to allow DAs to have the newer Storm Shields...don't let him!

Then plasma the gak outta those Termies!

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:That's actually a good idea. I am doing a different ruleset as well, one of my own design. It's pretty fun, as I mentioned before SW meets Rogue Trader rules.

Ah, a homebrew always sounded like fun.

I should give it a shot some time.

They are actually really fun. Right now I'm just messing around and making up stat lines and abilities and equipment, no points cost yet. It's fun to have crazy bounter hunter Jedis.

@Dirkthe1- Yeah, I'm putting Warhammer on the back burner for now. Thank you for the suggestion, I think I'm just burnt out right now.

@Karnaeya- What is interesting about this Swedish FAQ is that one apparently can't use LatD but can use Kroot Mercs or the 13th company. So that's reason enough to not use it, as I play LatD. Or, since I can call out my friend for being a cheesemonger, I will just start using Bloodthirsters in my lost and the damned army. Not the wussy generic, but the actual thing. Then I think he'll sober up.

Also you could come up with your own campaign ideas and scenarios that would change up the game.

My buddy and I came up with a large template to represent a crashed ship that was the main objective. You could either gain control of the bridge, and download the data as one objective. Or if you couldn't get to the bridge, you could take over the engine room and plant explosives to eliminate the ship all together. This is an over simplification of what we came up with, but just one of many we have created to keep the game fresh and interesting.

Use your imagination, and try coming up with interesting new angles on the setting.

So let me get this straight...

You live in California, and are letting your opponent use a Swedish FAQ? I'd tell him to shove it.

Or, if he's an actual friend, have a conversation about it. Tell him that it's not fun.

My game group is small (about 4 people). We get sick of the same matchups...so we have an ad-hoc rotating schedule.

We play 40k for a few months, and then when we are starting to get a little burnt out, we take a break (coincidentally, this is usually around finals/the holidays). Then, we switch to Mordheim for a few months. The two games are SO DIFFERENT that it's a nice refresher.

Vladsimpaler wrote:
Inbetween the cover saves and arguing over them (I'm sorry, but rocks half a Space Marine's height do not give them saves.),

I'm gonna point out a few things:

1. Models are static, the beings they represent would not be (they would be running, weaving, ducking, kneeling, dropping prone ,etc.) in the face of enemy fire...

2. I can hide myself behind things much less shorter then waist height

Do yourself a favor and don't ever play FOW...

Sheesh, its only a game!

My advice is to steer clear from games of toy soldiers until you grow up a bit and learn about priorities in life.

The fault doesn't lie with the rules (although they are confusing enough) but with your attitude to losing. Sure the rules could be clearer. but they are never going to be perfect, so you had always better be prepared for something "unfair" to happen.

You need to get your attitude sorted out before you play again, I advise. Man up! It's not like its important or anything! Spitting your dummy and crying about losing just because your opponent takes a different view to you over some detail of the rules just makes you sound like a spoiled, whiny brat.

Learn the rules, argue fairly and politely and learn to take your knocks.

Take a break, seriously.

Osbad wrote:Sheesh, its only a game!

Yes, I know that.

My advice is to steer clear from games of toy soldiers until you grow up a bit and learn about priorities in life.

The fault doesn't lie with the rules (although they are confusing enough) but with your attitude to losing. Sure the rules could be clearer. but they are never going to be perfect, so you had always better be prepared for something "unfair" to happen.

I'll admit that I have a bad attitude to losing most of the time, but it only seems to be when I'm around friends. If I play a game against some person who I don't know, I could care less if I lose. I don't know.

Yes, I know that the rules aren't perfect.

You need to get your attitude sorted out before you play again, I advise. Man up! It's not like its important or anything! Spitting your dummy and crying about losing just because your opponent takes a different view to you over some detail of the rules just makes you sound like a spoiled, whiny brat.

Learn the rules, argue fairly and politely and learn to take your knocks.

You're acting like I just insulted you or something. Calm down, please. Yes, I get that it's not important, but isn't it at least important to enjoy it? That's the whole point of this thread, is me not enjoying it. I don't give a rat's behind if I lose if it's enjoyable. There's been games that I've lost terribly but I still had fun.

Which is why I'm going to stop playing for a while; I'm not enjoying it as I'm burnt out. Way to insult me, by the way.

And it's not a detail of the rule, it's a FAQ that's caused me to lose several games. So it's kind of an issue.

@Barlio

I am.

@CT GAMER

Serious question. Then should models never be able to be shot at? I mean, if you're not shooting, your behind rocks reloading, waiting for them to run out of ammo, etc.

And I don't plan on playing FOW. Not too big of a fan of WWII games, really.

But you're right, bad example. How about this: Say some Imperial Guard troopers are in front of a Leman Russ. Obviously, if the hull bolter fires, whatever it fires at gets saves. But if I fire the battlecannon, my friend says his stuff still gets saves.

I hope that your vacation goes well and that you return to the fold with a renewed sense of gaming wellness (no sarcasm, I hope you can get back into the groove).

Osbad wrote:My advice is to steer clear from games of toy soldiers until you grow up a bit and learn about priorities in life.

The fault doesn't lie with the rules (although they are confusing enough) but with your attitude to losing. Sure the rules could be clearer. but they are never going to be perfect, so you had always better be prepared for something "unfair" to happen.

You need to get your attitude sorted out before you play again, ...learn to take your knocks.

Indeed? Thats a pretty flip read IMO. Not actually knowing the OP, or anymore experience of the described situation I will move on to talk about why my gaming group wasn't "having fun anymore"

I offer a counter point.

5th rules are broken, it's ok to be irritated and upset by this. I suggest it is because 5th edition is a poor game by a variety of standards. Largely because of codex imbalance, and immaturity of the 5th edition rule set. Clearly all the codices published so far are getting band-aid rules for 5th edition rule mistakes (combat squad, squad up, orders). Playing 5th ed codices against legacy codices (with none of the band aid rules) makes for handicapped 5th ed games, that are quite frankly, generally slanted.

Slanted is not fun.

Also, a word on army invalidation, having an army invalidated, by either being outright discontinued, (LATD, Iron Warriors, Swordwind, Black Guardians, etc) is just as bad if not worse than having an effective army nullified by the current rules (Tyranids, Eldar, Necrons, Tau). This relates heavily to the last publication of a codex, and that issue is where I think 60% of the blame lies, the remainder lying in very poor 5th ed mechanics, specificly, mission problems: Scoring units, Dawn of War & Kill Points, also Fantasy Battle style Melee and Morale rules, and contesting unit rules.

Having your army invalidated is not fun.

Perhaps winning is not important, but always playing for a tie, or getting tabled regularly isn't any fun either. There needs to be a better medium and until the rules are fixed, only player discretion can address this (FAQ from EU? Really?).

Vladsimpaler wrote:any tips?

Speaking from experience here are some tips:
(1) Build a competative army from a codex written for 5th edition (Orks, Demons, Marines or IG)
or
(2) Only play 5th ed codices against eachother and 4th ed codices against eachother, like a bush league and a pro league
or
(3) Wait for your codex to get redone
or
(4) Wait for 6th edition
or
(6) Play apocalypse and suspend the army construction requirements, (create your own game balance)

In 5th edition I started over essentially, I sold all my armies when I read the 5th rumors, and then after the book came out, and boy did it hurt! Since then I have painted 5 new armies and finally the game is fun again because I can do all the above.

Good luck!

Your friend sounds like a douchebag, to be honest. Enjoy your break; buy a few beers with the money you'll save. Now that's a good way to have fun.

Vladsimpaler wrote:But you're right, bad example. How about this: Say some Imperial Guard troopers are in front of a Leman Russ. Obviously, if the hull bolter fires, whatever it fires at gets saves. But if I fire the battlecannon, my friend says his stuff still gets saves.

....I think that you both need to take a look at the rules on Armor Penetration. I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't even get saves against the bolter, and I know they wouldn't against the battle cannon. Unless they're in cover, that is. Also remember, the 3+ invuln from the Storm Shields is in melee only. Plasma = goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood.

If it's that much of a problem, try AT-43. Easily the best rules I've seen for replicating a firefight, and no armor saves to speak of.

barlio wrote:Take a break, seriously.

QFT

Sometimes you just need a long break from things.

Sarrazon wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:But you're right, bad example. How about this: Say some Imperial Guard troopers are in front of a Leman Russ. Obviously, if the hull bolter fires, whatever it fires at gets saves. But if I fire the battlecannon, my friend says his stuff still gets saves.

....I think that you both need to take a look at the rules on Armor Penetration. I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't even get saves against the bolter, and I know they wouldn't against the battle cannon. Unless they're in cover, that is. Also remember, the 3+ invuln from the Storm Shields is in melee only. Plasma = goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood.

If it's that much of a problem, try AT-43. Easily the best rules I've seen for replicating a firefight, and no armor saves to speak of.

Sorry, what I meant was, let's say that there is a Leman Russ behind some Imperial Guard troopers, and the Leman Russ is firing at some Orks. The Orks would get a cover save since the heavy bolter fired through the Guard troopers. But my friend says the Orks get a cover save if I fire my Battlecannon at them too!

And woah. Is the 3+ invul only in melee? That doesn't sound right.

@Augustus,
Thank you. Very good tips, I will try them when I come back from my break. Maybe August? I'll be enjoying my Star Wars game until then.

Vladsimpaler wrote:Sorry, what I meant was, let's say that there is a Leman Russ behind some Imperial Guard troopers, and the Leman Russ is firing at some Orks. The Orks would get a cover save since the heavy bolter fired through the Guard troopers. But my friend says the Orks get a cover save if I fire my Battlecannon at them too!

And woah. Is the 3+ invul only in melee? That doesn't sound right.

Oh, I gotcha. Depends on how obscured the Orks are by the Guardsmen. Sight from an agreed point (generally the barrel of the gun), and if they're more than half obscured or something (not too sure on the cover rules), they yup, they get a save.

And yep, it's only in melee. Otherwise, they would be obscenely broken.

I took a 3 year break back in '92.

Did me the world of good. Got out, met different people, got drunk with 'wm. Went clubbing and did 'non-nerdy' stuff (but oddly ended up discussing gaming with several other clubbers who were nerds-like-me on more than one occasion).

Find a new opponent. This may involve travel.
I had no 'local' players when I lived in our LARGEST city (in my suburban area). The closest group was 1 hour away (public transport)/30 minutes by car. Yet, I played with most of the ones I could get to. It was only in '95 I found some local players - then they moved away.

North and South and West (couldn't get much more east as there was ocean that way).

Do what I did... sell your army and just start playing NintendoDS games from a couple years ago.... FINAL FANTASY III FTW!

It has done wonders for me and has made WHFB, W40K, WM, and Hordes plenty fun.

Take a break from Warhammer and play some different games. I took a 4 month break from Warhammer and played Warmachine exclusively. Then that got a bit stale so I bought some board games. My club played Shadows Over Camelot night before last and it was the most fun we've had in a loooong time.

Sarrazon wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:
And woah. Is the 3+ invul only in melee? That doesn't sound right.

And yep, it's only in melee. Otherwise, they would be obscenely broken.

No. It's against all attacks, shooting as well as melee. This applies only if the Storm Shield is bought through or uses the rules in the SM Codex.

Vladsimpalers opponent should use the rules for Storm Shields written in the DA Codex, which are 4+ in CC only.
Vlad, tell your "mate" to use the official rules only and not some halfbacked swedish lameass FAQ.

Swedish lol. Show your idiot friend this thread.