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Iran's powerful Guardian Council says it is ready to recount disputed votes from Friday's presidential poll.
Moderate candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi has contested President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's re-election, alleging widespread fraud.
The BBC's Jon Leyne in Tehran says the council's announcement is a complete U-turn. The official results sparked three days of huge protests.
Iranian radio says seven people were killed during demonstrations on Monday.
The Guardian Council - Iran's supreme legislative body - said votes would be recounted in areas contested by the losing candidates.
Our correspondent says it is not clear whether the offer will be accepted by Mr Ahmadinejad's rivals, who want the election annulled.
The opposition says millions of ballots may have gone astray.
The council, which is considering an appeal by Mr Mousavi and another defeated candidate, had earlier said the results were only provisional.
New demonstrations have been called by supporters of both President Ahmadinejad and Mr Mousavi and are due to take place in Vali Asr Square in central Tehran.
Monday's protest involved hundreds of thousands of people and was one of the largest since the Iranian revolution 30 years ago.
The radio report said the attack occurred at the end of the "illegal" rally as people were heading home "peacefully".
"Several thugs wanted to attack a military post and vandalise public property in the vicinity of Azadi Square," the radio said referring to the site of the protest.
"Unfortunately seven people were killed and several others wounded in the incident."
Dozens of opposition activists have been arrested since the protests began.
A number of senior reformist politicians, including former Vice-President Mohammad Ali Abtahi and Mousavi ally Saeed Hajarian, were detained overnight, reports said.
There are reports of fresh demonstrations at Tehran University - one of the main centres of tension in recent days. About 120 university lecturers have resigned.
The powerful Speaker of parliament, Ali Larijani, has condemned an attack by police and militia on a student dormitory. Iranian media quoted him as saying: "The interior minister is responsible in this regard."
Foreign concern
Our correspondent says the authorities appear to be weakening in their support for President Ahmadinejad.
The BBC's Jon Leyne in Tehran: "The election result is up for grabs again"
The country's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has ordered an inquiry into the allegations of vote-rigging.
The authorities' handling of the protests has drawn international criticism.
EU foreign ministers expressed "serious concern" and called for an inquiry into the conduct of the election.
US President Barack Obama said he was "deeply troubled" by the violence in Iran.
Meanwhile, President Ahmadinejad arrived in Russia on Tuesday. He told a regional summit that the "age of empires" had ended, but made no mention of the protests.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/06/16 10:49:08
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About the only thing separating Mousavi from Ahmadinejad is a lack of overt antisemitism. That could be important in convincing Israel to stand down from its advertised policy of 'bomb the nuclear development sites', but is otherwise fairly irrelevant.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
dogma wrote:About the only thing separating Mousavi from Ahmadinejad is a lack of overt antisemitism. That could be important in convincing Israel to stand down from its advertised policy of 'bomb the nuclear development sites', but is otherwise fairly irrelevant.
Except that's not true. Mousavi is hardly a liberal progressive, but his campaign ran heavily on modernisation and opening up to the rest of the world.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/17 02:59:50
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
sebster wrote:
Except that's not true. Mousavi is hardly a liberal progressive, but his campaign ran heavily on modernisation and opening up to the rest of the world.
But the key issue standing in the way of modernization is the nuclear one, on which Mousavi is comparable to Ahmadinejad. He might promise modernization, and open borders, but it won't matter if the West takes economic measures on the nuclear issue.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
sebster wrote: Except that's not true. Mousavi is hardly a liberal progressive, but his campaign ran heavily on modernisation and opening up to the rest of the world.
But the key issue standing in the way of modernization is the nuclear one, on which Mousavi is comparable to Ahmadinejad. He might promise modernization, and open borders, but it won't matter if the West takes economic measures on the nuclear issue.
There are considerably deeper rifts between the west and Iran than the nuclear issue. Trading partners, travel arrangements, military antagonism on both sides, student programs, oil issues, and general stability concerns all float just under the nuclear talks. Mousavi may have been a hawk in the past, but a general consensus among him and most of the rest of Iran is the absolute necessity of free and open trade and travel between Iran and the west as a cornerstone of economic redevelopment for the country. They are drowning under the current arrangement and they see the rest of the world unphased by the deepening economic and social problems caused by it. The country itself, if not its current leadership seems to understand that continuing along the previous course is a poor idea.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/17 06:10:08
----------------
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad
The mistake that the electoral commission made was saying that everyone voted the same way in all regions and all ethnic minorities everywhere in Iran.
That right there was just plain dumb if you are trying to rig an election.
Ahmadinejad must be confident he is going to hold onto power... he took off to Russia for talks yesterday.
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ShumaGorath wrote:
There are considerably deeper rifts between the west and Iran than the nuclear issue. Trading partners, travel arrangements, military antagonism on both sides, student programs, oil issues, and general stability concerns all float just under the nuclear talks.
Clearly, but until the nuclear issue is resolved (whatever form that resolution might take) none of those issues can be considered particularly important.
ShumaGorath wrote:
Mousavi may have been a hawk in the past, but a general consensus among him and most of the rest of Iran is the absolute necessity of free and open trade and travel between Iran and the west as a cornerstone of economic redevelopment for the country. They are drowning under the current arrangement and they see the rest of the world unphased by the deepening economic and social problems caused by it. The country itself, if not its current leadership seems to understand that continuing along the previous course is a poor idea.
I agree, but the fact remains that Mousavi was permitted on the ballot because his past attitude renders him appealing to the Guardian Council. This places him squarely in the middle the nascent power play between the conservative Guardian Council (lead by Khamenei), and the more progressive Assembly of Experts/Expediency Discernment Council (both lead by Rafsanjani). Where Mousavi would fall in this dispute is somewhat up in the air. He shares Rfsanjani's stance on the economy, but seems to gravitate more towards Khamenei's stance on nuclear armament (which is far less bellicose than Ahmadinejad's).
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
dogma wrote:But the key issue standing in the way of modernization is the nuclear one, on which Mousavi is comparable to Ahmadinejad. He might promise modernization, and open borders, but it won't matter if the West takes economic measures on the nuclear issue.
The key issue for the US is nuclear weapons, I don't think it's the key issue for Iran itself, though.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
sebster wrote:
The key issue for the US is nuclear weapons, I don't think it's the key issue for Iran itself, though.
I think that will depend on the extent to which the EU is open to a nuclear Iran. If they remain nonplussed in an economic sense, then Iran will gain nothing. After all, the nations which seem indifferent to their military capabilities already trade with them so any further action those states take is unlikely to turn the Iranian economy around.
What Mousavi could accomplish is a redirection of the Iranian economy through the redistribution of oil profits. However, this would likely step on the toes of upper class, which is generally populated by those merchant families who backed Khomeini's revolution (or at least held to neutrality). Unfortunately, they have held the ear of the Guardian's in the past (and were a major factor in Ahmadinejad's rise), so and move against them would likely raise Khamenei's ire. Conceivably the move could be made with Rafsanjani's support (though even that is tenuous given that he is older than Khamenei), but it's still a gamble that Mousavi might not be willing to make.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/06/17 09:29:46
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
The significance of the current protests is not that it might get Mousavi elected instead of Armourdinnerjacket, it is that popular protest is succeeding against the power of high-level state control.
Once the people understand they can contravene the wishes of the Guardian Council, it opens up possibilities for other leaders to step forward who will be more open towards the West.
Kilkrazy wrote:The significance of the current protests is not that it might get Mousavi elected instead of Armourdinnerjacket, it is that popular protest is succeeding against the power of high-level state control.
Once the people understand they can contravene the wishes of the Guardian Council, it opens up possibilities for other leaders to step forward who will be more open towards the West.
You ever heard of Tiananmen square?
GG
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/17 16:31:03
Kilkrazy wrote:The significance of the current protests is not that it might get Mousavi elected instead of Armourdinnerjacket, it is that popular protest is succeeding against the power of high-level state control.
Once the people understand they can contravene the wishes of the Guardian Council, it opens up possibilities for other leaders to step forward who will be more open towards the West.
Agreed. It also lends credence to and attempt the Assembly of Experts might make to remove the current Supreme Leader from power, as that is within their power.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
generalgrog wrote:
You ever heard of Tiananmen square?
GG
The thing is there are parts of the government, with the power to remove the Supreme Leader (who is himself Iran's military leader), that hold reformist views. Start running people over with tanks? You can probably expect the Iranian form of impeachment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/17 16:38:13
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Maybe Ahmadinejad has hired Katherine Harris, Florida's secretary of state in 2000, to head up the recount.
In the dark future, there are skulls for everyone. But only the bad guys get spikes. And rivets for all, apparently welding was lost in the Dark Age of Technology. -from C.Borer
When will these Impudent Middle East Countries learn only the USA are allowed to fix elections!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/17 17:19:31
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iirc, Saddam Hussein was continuously re-elected with 100% of the vote. As are other despots. There's rigging an election, and then there's rigging an election.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/06/17 17:29:19
In the dark future, there are skulls for everyone. But only the bad guys get spikes. And rivets for all, apparently welding was lost in the Dark Age of Technology. -from C.Borer
Kilkrazy wrote:The significance of the current protests is not that it might get Mousavi elected instead of Armourdinnerjacket, it is that popular protest is succeeding against the power of high-level state control.
Once the people understand they can contravene the wishes of the Guardian Council, it opens up possibilities for other leaders to step forward who will be more open towards the West.
You ever heard of Tiananmen square?
GG
You ever heard of the 1979 revolution against the Shah?
You ever heard of ABBA? (sorry just wanted to get in on the train).
Against the power rising in the East (Abba) there can be no victory...
-the Ghost of Jimi Hendrix
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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dietrich wrote:iirc, Saddam Hussein was continuously re-elected with 100% of the vote. As are other despots. There's rigging an election, and then there's rigging an election.
Yeah, it's kinda like the Iranian government wanted to have a crushing win and its legitimacy, so they fudged it hard but not "guns-at-heads" hard... but that just made it an insult to people's intelligence, so they got pissed. If you're gonna rig it for real, make sure it's nice and obscured.
As a rule of thumb, the designers do not hide "easter eggs" in the rules. If clever reading is required to unlock some sort of hidden option, then it is most likely the result of wishful thinking.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake;
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
dietrich wrote:iirc, Saddam Hussein was continuously re-elected with 100% of the vote. As are other despots. There's rigging an election, and then there's rigging an election.
And yet an African Dictator managed to even out strip everyone's favourite dead despot.
I cannot for the life of me remember which particular nutter it was, but he managed to gain more votes than there were people in his country Note thats not just registered voters. He got more votes than there are people in his country.
Clever huh?
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Iran has issues with the UK based on stuff they did 100 years ago, IIRC.
Obama is playing this very smartly. The government there would love to redirect the public's anger to the U.S. by painting us as meddlers. The typical Iranian believes we've messed around with their internal affairs in the past by setting up the Shah, etc. But Obama isn't giving the government any ammo, and the public knows it. That's keeping their anger focused squarely on the government.
I think politics in Iran have changed forever. AFAIK, this is the first time the people have widely and openly ignored the edicts from the religious leadership. The government might hold on by cracking down on the people, but that'll only build more resentment and probably doom them in the end. This is fascinating stuff to watch.
The Nedda video seems to have at once dialed up the intensity of the opposition and galvanized the loyalists.
The massive outpouring of foregn support just pushes the buttons of the hardliners and causes them to dig in further. I don't see this ending peacefully now unless the opposition just backs down.
If it gets violent it will be quick and bloody. The Govt. and the Militia's have all the heavy weapons and as annoying as terrorist actions are they have never toppled a domestic government ( only foreign occupations ).
Sad to say it but I dont think this will change anything in the short term, but it might lead to a change in a few years.
Popbitch wrote:One of the things Iran's President Ahmadinejad
is most known for in political and diplomatic
circles is his B.O. He has been described to
us as smelling "musty" and "like a billy-goat".
Our drunk Whitehall source this week gave
an interesting take on the West's attitude
towards him. The Chinese are said to be appalled
by Ahmadinejad's standards of personal hygiene -
it offends their cultural norms. And so,
despite everything - democracy, freedom 'n all
that, Britain and the US don't mind him staying
in power. The Chinese are not likely to
give political support to somebody so weird/smelly.
Which will help delay Iran getting nuclear weapons.
so stupid I hope it IS true !
That said...I read an interview with John Snow years back when he talked about A. Suddenly realising one time he was alone with an asleep Gadaffi and could kill him and B. That Gadaffi suffered from terrible flatulence that you never to mention.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
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