Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Seeking some input on this one. I'm running a unit of nob bikers w/a painboy. I also have my warboss and big mek on bikes join the unit. I asumed that only the nobs recieved the "feel no pain" rule, but a GW manager pointed out that the characters recieved this ability as well due to the verbage in Codex Orks.

Codex Orks states on pg. 38 a painboy "confers the Feel No Pain ability to his unit". I looked on pg. 75 of the 40k rulebook to see if it clarified. All I could gather there was that no * was printed next to the rule and the verbage within the rule was different than the verbage in the Codex. So one could follow the guidelines printed on pg. 74 of the 40k rulebook which says that a Codex superseeds the rulebook. I have scoured that rulebook for an example of this and came up short. If you go by the letter of the painboys ability, then it states clearly that he confers this ability onto his unit. So if a character is part of that unit????

Any input is appreciated! Thanks for your time!

-Ozzy

That's correct. It's another one of those things in the Ork dex that's true by the letter of the law, but a lot of people are willing to do a lot of bending over backwards to find a way to disprove it.

Snikrot infiltrating Warbosses is another one.

Ok, so does that also work on special characters joining the unit (wazdakka as an example)? Or does Kaptin Badrukk get this ability through his flash gitz painboy? I am assuming the answer is yes, as the rule states this, but I was also under the impression that special characters are bound by the rules they come with.

Yes, Doc Tools works on Special Characters too.

Snikrot infiltrating Warbosses is another one.

I don't think this one would work. It doesn't say anywhere that he confers this onto his unit. He just has the base rule "infiltrate", so the rulebook * would still apply (pg. 75) stating any unit joined by an independant character without this ability loses this ability. So the Kommandos would lose infiltrate.

Not trying to argue, just trying to digest the rules. Thanks very much for the feedback!

-Ozzy

What he means is Snikrots "Arrive from the any edge" ability.

yes... as sadly as I disagree with it... most people have come to the consensus that the wording for docs tools is sufficiently inclusive enough to count as specific...

As for snikrot... his ability is not infiltrate... it is ambush and since it says "his unit" the consensus is again the same...

:(

I honestly think that it makes perfect sense for ICs with nobz to get the feel no pain.

The reason special rules are not conferred to special characters is because if you put someone in a unit of things with a special ability, he does not magically gain that ability.

In this case, however, the nobz have no special ability, there's just a painboy at the ready to fix em up if they get crumped. I like to think that the painboy would be willing to help a warboss standing right there rather than saying "sorry I was hired to fix nobz, and you're not a nob"

o.O

Interesting about Snikrot + IC. I never thought of that before!

If you really want to break your brain, put a Warboss with a Power Klaw on a bike and attach him to Snikrot's squad. Now you have a Warboss that can move on from any table edge via Snik, move out of coherency, and charge a separate target 18" away with his T6 S10 PK that gets 4+ armor and 4+ cover while Snik and his buddies still wreck stuff.

Deffgob wrote:
I like to think that the painboy would be willing to help a warboss standing right there rather than saying "sorry I was hired to fix nobz, and you're not a nob"

haha "DIE SUCKER!"
(A Land Raider approaches on the horizon)
"Woops... that S5 + power klaw would have come in useful..."

I think the medic being able to assist an Independent Character makes the whole "retinue" concept more useful, which is nice since they can no longer prevent the IC from being singled out in combat.

Here's the problem with painboy / IC getting FNP arguments....

A painboy confers the special rule "Feel No Pain" on the unit that he is with.

Independent characters attached to a unit do not benefit from a unit's special rules.

Therefore the independent character would not get feel no pain.

Are you sure? it seems to me like the painboy would overcome any selfish attitudes and inject his leader, rather than suffer death at the heands of the largest greenskin around, in exchange for preserving an ounce of his 'urty juice.

Nightwatch wrote:Are you sure? it seems to me like the painboy would overcome any selfish attitudes and inject his leader, rather than suffer death at the heands of the largest greenskin around, in exchange for preserving an ounce of his 'urty juice.

While your fluffy argument is fun, when debating what the rules tell you to do it is most unhelpful to think of fluff.

P1. Painboys "confer the Feel No Pain ability to his unit". p 38 ork codex.
P2. "Unless specified in the rule itself [...], the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the character" p.48 BGB
C: Since it is not specified either in the rules for the painboy or the FNP USR, it is not conferred upon an IC joining that unit.

Fair enough. So, fluffwise, I guess the painboy has no medication compatible with the warboss' DNA, and so any sticking with his various needles would do more harm than good.

Nightwatch wrote:Fair enough. So, fluffwise, I guess the painboy has no medication compatible with the warboss' DNA, and so any sticking with his various needles would do more harm than good.

This part of the forum is for raw discussions... not fluff... But no, If you read the fluff on orks, if da boss can't lead he ain't da boss

Dracos wrote:P1. Painboys "confer the Feel No Pain ability to his unit". p 38 ork codex.
P2. "Unless specified in the rule itself [...], the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the character" p.48 BGB
C: Since it is not specified either in the rules for the painboy or the FNP USR, it is not conferred upon an IC joining that unit.

But it's not conferred by his unit, it's conferred by the Dok's Tools piece of wargear, which grants Feel no Pain to the Painboy's unit. And includes the Warboss if he's attached to the nobs.

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Dracos wrote:P1. Painboys "confer the Feel No Pain ability to his unit". p 38 ork codex.
P2. "Unless specified in the rule itself [...], the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the character" p.48 BGB
C: Since it is not specified either in the rules for the painboy or the FNP USR, it is not conferred upon an IC joining that unit.

But it's not conferred by his unit, it's conferred by the Dok's Tools piece of wargear, which grants Feel no Pain to the Painboy's unit. And includes the Warboss if he's attached to the nobs.

The dok's tools specify as above, that it confers the FNP ability to the unit. So the ability belongs to the unit. However, the IC has a clause that "Unless specified in the rule itself [...], the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the character". Notice it is also talking about the ability belonging to the unit. The IC does not benefit as neither the rules for FNP nor Dok's Tools specifies that it does.

But it's not the unit's special rules conferred upon the character.

It's the Wargear's special rules. Whether or not the Nobs have the ability is unrelated to the Warboss having it, as the Warboss and the Nobs both gain the ability from the same source. The Dok's Tools.

The rules don't say an Independent Character can't benefit from the same rules as his unit, just that he doesn't recieve the rules as a part of joining a unit that has the rule.

Orkeosaurus wrote:But it's not the unit's special rules conferred upon the character.

It's the Wargear's special rules. Whether or not the Nobs have the ability is unrelated to the Warboss having it, as the Warboss and the Nobs both gain the ability from the same source. The Dok's Tools.

The rules don't say an Independent Character can't benefit from the same rules as his unit, just that he doesn't recieve the rules as a part of joining a unit that has the rule.

Ork is right. The unit does not have FNP, the Wargear gives everyone in the unit FNP as long as the wargear is there.

Okay actually after reading ork's point I'm inclined to abandon my previous conclusion. The conclusion I can see is now independent of p48 simply because he gains the benefit while in the unit from the tools.

I believe I was incorrect. Well reasoned orkeosaurus

Slightly off topic but does this work the same way for an Apothacary in a Marine Command Squad and there commander?

Jon Garrett wrote:Slightly off topic but does this work the same way for an Apothacary in a Marine Command Squad and there commander?

No, because GW like fething with you </Sarcasm>

(It does, it's the exact same situation)

Thanks a lot to everyone who dialed in on this. I really wanted to pool other players to see how everyone interprets this situation.

-Ozzy