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All of the SciFi miniatures games I have seen, sans epic and inquisitor, are in 28-30 mm scale. This scale is great for painting detail, etc, etc. But it leaves a bit to be desired when it comes to:
A- Price of the models
B- Room on the table top
C- Possibly could be more of a strategic game with smaller "more manueverable" models.

Think about the strategic implications of playing a game, of 40k for example, in 15mm. If the 40k models were 15mm and you played on a 4x4 table, it would equal playing 28-30mm on an 8x8 foot table. So thats a lot of manuevering room.

I think flames of war is 15mm, and it has a growing fan base. Sure you miss out on the coolness factor of the larger scale detail for painting, but if the game had a clear rule set and awesome playablity, would you give it a try?

GG

I used to play Laserburn in 15mm, and I still have tons of figures.

http://www.15mm.co.uk/Laserburn_15mm_Sci-fi.htm

As you noted, 15mm gives you much more range for weapons and movement. It allows more use of vehicles and aircraft, for the same reasons.

In 40K you have the ridiculous point that some vehicle models are longer than an infantry figure can move in one turn.

Another good point about 15mm is that the figures are less detailed and can be painted much more quickly, and they are a lot cheaper than 28mm.

Laserburn is kind of what I'm talking about. Never heard of it.... was it a good game system? Why do you think it failed to catch on?

The minis aren't that impressive to be honest. I think any 15mm game would have to have really nice detailed minis. Preferably plastic, but that may not be possible to have finely detailed plastic minis at that scale.

GG

There's also Stargunt II, that's compatible with 15mm models. I think Crossfire is intended for 15mm, which should be easy to adapt to sci-fi tropes.

Nurglitch wrote:There's also Stargunt II, that's compatible with 15mm models. I think Crossfire is intended for 15mm, which should be easy to adapt to sci-fi tropes.

Are those games any good? Do anyone you know play them?

GG

Plenty of people play Stargrunt II, particularly as Ground Zero Games have released it as a free pdf. You'd have to go looking around theminiaturespage.com to find like-minded people though. It's a very good game: an actual wargame where things like suppressive fire, manoeuvre. I used to play it lots, but then I got into a game designed by a friend I know only as Weasel Fierce, from the old Portent Forums, called "Fast and Dirty" which is possibly better from a speed and intuition standpoint.

Crossfire is a WWII game with genuinely creative concepts and rules such as turns with variable length boundaries. I still manage to get a game or two of this in a month, but my gaming tends to be filled up with Epic: Armageddon and Warhammer 40k these days. It's definitely worth trying, particularly since it's so easy to introduce to people. It's rather like Blood Bowl but without the time limit turnovers.

I would love to see a Warhammer 40k 15mm game with 40k ruleset.

Star Grunt looks interesting. The minis are....ok. I'm gonna have to check out the free rules and see how it looks. I did do some searching online and haven't found any "awesome" paint jobs. I'm thinking the 15mm could be a hinderence to someone interested in the hobby aspect. Those star grunt minis have potenetial though.


GG

15mm is really quite small, I think 28mm is a great sculpting size. At a certain point ridiculous detail just wont fit on such tiny figures, and it will mess with the aesthetics suited to such small models. Imagine painting the detail, it is insane.

Back in the heady days of Epic: Space Marine my brother collected a couple of massive armies, including an Ork army that included all the klans painted in klan colours, checks, dags, and all. I think he must have been around 14 at the time he painted them.

The only reason I wouldn't want to start 15mm is because I already have so much 6mm and 28mm stuff and don't want to start a new scale. I like the idea of getting more use out of your real-estate with the smaller figures, but you might as well just play 6mm instead IMO. 6mm for a good tactical/operational feel, 28mm for hobby aspects (converting, paintjobs, etc.)

That said, I like Stargrunt, and I've looked at some of the figures and said "Damn, I wish I could get those for 40k" (mostly the power-armored guys).

I wouldn't mind a sci-fi game in a less "heroic" scale, like the Lord of the Rings game for instance. They'd still be smaller and easier to paint, but not teeny tiny.

generalgrog wrote:I think flames of war is 15mm,

Flames is bog standard 15mm, though BF doesn't want to admit it, because 15mm Historicals minis are cheaper than what they sell, and all 15mm Panzers are the same.

Heavy Gear is also 15mm, and I own a small force. The old version is way too clunky, and although the new rules are better, they could be streamlined further a la 40k / FoW. I would definitely play more Heavy Gear if the rules supported mass-battle play like 40k does.

Of course for my tastes, the true benefit of 15mm scale isn't the maneuvering room, but the fact that Superheavy Tanks and Titan-class models become a lot more affordable and practical on the game board. Scout Titans become Dreadnought / Wraithlord size and cost.

As an aside, IMO, scale-wise, 40k really screwed the pooch by allowing IG to inflate with the Cadians. If IG (and Eldar, to a lesser extent) had been shrunk down to 25mm (for Characters) and a bit less for the dogfaces, then larger multi-pose plastic 3E SM would look much closer to "true scale" by comparison, and Xenos would be truly monstrous by comparison.

Wrexasaur wrote:15mm is really quite small, I think 28mm is a great sculpting size. At a certain point ridiculous detail just wont fit on such tiny figures, and it will mess with the aesthetics suited to such small models. Imagine painting the detail, it is insane.

15mm is tiny compared with 40K figures. The point about 15mm is to have less detail and include the detail which counts. That's where the skill of the sculptor comes into play.

Lots of Napoleonic and Ancients players use 15mm. It works fine for displaying the amount of detail needed to tell one uniform from another, and the troop types. It doesn't let you paint the sparkles in the eyes, but that isn't the point of 15mm.

Painting 15mm requires a simpler technique to 28mm, which lets you bash out figures quicker.

6mm is correspondingly smaller and makes further compromises with detail and requires a different painting technique. 6mm players are going for the mass look. My 6mm Russian Napoleonic has 48 figures in formation on a 60mm square base which in area is about 2.25 times the base which contains a single 40K figure.

What I'm saying is that different scales aren't better or worse, they are different. You choose a scale which suits the kind of games you want to play. 28mm is good for lots of figure detail, but it loses out on ranges, scale and expense. 6mm is very cheap and allows the use of huge armies and battlefields, but the detail on the figures is much less.

Compare the 6mm and 28mm figures in my gallery.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/16317-Napoleonic%20Russian%20Kurassiers.html

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/16210-Kolony%20Special%20Weapons%202.html

JohnHwangDD wrote:

generalgrog wrote:I think flames of war is 15mm,

Flames is bog standard 15mm, though BF doesn't want to admit it, because 15mm Historicals minis are cheaper than what they sell, and all 15mm Panzers are the same.

Actually, while FOW is technically 15mm, it is a bit beefier than some other 15mm manufacturers. Some people say it's more like 18mm, or sort of a "heroic" 15mm scale. That said, it's pretty easy to mix in some other manufacturers minis in the same army, it really just depends on which manufacturer we're talking about, and which line of miniatures.


FOW minis are on the expensive side of 15mm, but not overly so, and there is a significant difference in quality with say, Old Glory's 15mm lines and Battlefront's Flames of War minis. Also, 15mm Panzers and other tanks are far from all the same. It's often quite easy to pick out the tanks from other manufacturers, especially if you're mixing them in the same platoon. There's a lot of comparison that goes on between 15mm miniatures companies, especially with the armored units. Some manufacturers have tanks that are a bit taller, or a bit longer, or even just smaller.

Hi all.
In general we use 25mm and above for skirmish sized games .(Up to platoon )
15 to 20 mm for bigger battles.(Company'.)
And 6mm to 10mm for the realy big engagments.(Brigade and above.)

The basic promblem with 40k is it is all about the minatures.So without the 'kewl' minatures there is very little point in playing the 40k rules.
A game of the current 40k size would work great with 15mm minis if the rules were focused on game play , not marketing minatures.IMO.

Mind you as GW cannot be bothered to fully suport Epic Armageddon , I can not see them producing 15mm figs anytime soon.

So 15mm sci fi , .
GW 15mm scifi never going to happen.

You might also look into Critter Commando’s and Space Marine (None GW, existed before 40k) for other game systems in 15mm.

But, if you want to field your Baneblades, Thunderhawks, DKoK, and Terminators; check out EPIC Armageddon. It is a well balanced grand tactical slug fest that has all of the 40k flavor, but very little of the cheesiness. Even salty WRG 7th edition players like it (and that’s saying something lol).

If you want to have real fun though play 40k with Epic Minis holy gak is this fun. You can have epic 20 thousand point slug fests and with the ability to take titans and tanks etc.. its semi balanced

Just remember to reduce all the ranges.

I forget the conversion but its something like 1/5 to 1/6 of the range.

So a Bolter would fire like 6 standing still.

Then just reduce the size you play on.

Hordini wrote:Actually, while FOW is technically 15mm, it is a bit beefier than some other 15mm manufacturers. Some people say it's more like 18mm, or sort of a "heroic" 15mm scale. That said, it's pretty easy to mix in some other manufacturers minis in the same army, it really just depends on which manufacturer we're talking about, and which line of miniatures.

True that, with 15mm you get what you pay for and IMO Battlefront produce the best vehicle sculpts and I speak as someone who regularly buys Peter Pig models to beef out my army (there are some real gems in the Peter Pig range and my FLGS stocks them). If cost is your main motivator QRF provide the cheapest vehicles.

I'm tempted to buy some of those Laserburn power armoured guys and progress with my Space Marines in FoW project.

Here's a nice blog about 15mm SF games.

http://dropshiphorizon.blogspot.com/

It has a whole bunch of links to 15mm SF game resources and other related blogs.

To my mind, the scale and price of the game are far less important than the quality of the miniatures and whether or not I like the rules.

So, sure, I'd play 15mm if I liked the rules and the miniatures.

Frankly, other than tanks, I haven't come across any 15mm minatures that I would be prepared to pay for.

15mm is a good scale for vehicle based battles and that bit less fiddly than 6mm IMO.

Some guys at my local club are playing Flames of War rules with 6mm GHQ models using cm instead of inches. It's not my bag but it's an interesting concept.

insaniak wrote:To my mind, the scale and price of the game are far less important than the quality of the miniatures and whether or not I like the rules.

So, sure, I'd play 15mm if I liked the rules and the miniatures.

Frankly, other than tanks, I haven't come across any 15mm minatures that I would be prepared to pay for.

That's about the way I see it right now. I think most of the focus has been towards fantastic 28mm minis that 15mm is kind of forgotten about, at least when it comes to SCI FI in 15mm. There are some really gorgeous 15mm napolenics out there. And even GHQ makes some really nice 10mm napolenics.

If we could get a top notch SCFI outfit to get into 15mm I would buy some up if the minis were cool, and even better if they were plastic.

GG

You're never going to find 15mm figures that are as detailed as 28mm figures. It's not physically possible.

That's why 40K figures and Infinity are trending up to 30mm or even bigger, and have such exaggerated features. It's to allow even more detail than standard 25mm.

15mm is very popular in historical miniatures.

I would be happy to play the existing 40K rules using 15mm miniatures. at least then the shooting ranges wouldn't seem so absurdly short. GW should make 15mm figures for the company level style of play that is the current incarnation of 40K, and a separate more detailed skirmish game for the 28mm scale miniatures, more like second edition. They could put entire platoons on a sprue, like they do with the minis for epic, which are too small for me.

To answer the question of the thread I would not pick up a 15mm scifi game because I do not have the time to. IfI had the time and money I would love to simply for the mass battles and different tactical basis behind the game. But at the moment I'm too busy with my 28mm 40k stuff. If I were to pick up a 15mm game it would be Flames of War as I would like to play a game in a different setting from a scifi.

I'd love to play a 15MM Star Wars tabletop game that focused prominently on fighting between the Rebellion and the Empire.

I suppose It could feature different time periods and delve in to the prequels [Republic vs Separatists] as well as the extended universe after RoTJ [New Republic vs Imperial Remnants.]

So long as it focused on grunts on the ground rather than heroes.

I mean, I want to game the Battle of Hoth.

And I don't want to play WotC's Star Wars Miniatures game as I just don't really care for it. Star Wars Miniatures: Starship Battles is an even worse game.

So yeah, I guess I'd play a 15mm Sci-Fi game if it was cool enough.

I'd do 15mm WW2 if I found a ruleset I liked.

George Spiggott wrote:Some guys at my local club are playing Flames of War rules with 6mm GHQ models using cm instead of inches.

Ooohh... now that's an awesome idea. Nice!
____

generalgrog wrote:If we could get a top notch SCFI outfit to get into 15mm I would buy some up if the minis were cool, and even better if they were plastic.

Have you even looked at Heavy Gear?
____

warpcrafter wrote:I would be happy to play the existing 40K rules using 15mm miniatures. at least then the shooting ranges wouldn't seem so absurdly short.

Why don't you just play 40k rules with re-based Epic minis? At that point the shooting ranges would appear to be almost "correct"...

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Have you even looked at Heavy Gear?

I'm not able to get on their website from work, but I looked at the Wiki. The minis are really nice, but they aren't 15mm, and they aren't plastic.

I don't know, maybe I missed your point? :-)


GG

JohnwhangDD wrote:Why don't you just play 40k rules with re-based Epic minis? At that point the shooting ranges would appear to be almost "correct"...

Epic miniatures is like playing the game with lumpy grains of rice. 15mm may not be the best for modeling, but it's plenty to get the character of the armies as a whole.