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In a quest to find the 'right mix' of Nob Wargear, I submit these Nobz for criticism:

Heavy (Anticipation of going into CC)

10 Nob Cyborks in ‘Eavy Armor w/ Stikk Bombs:
1) Power Klaw, Twin Linked Shoota
2) Power Klaw, Shoota/Skorcha Kombi
3) Power Klaw, Shoota/Skorcha Kombi, Boss Pole
4) Waaagh! Banner, Power Klaw
5) Big Choppa, Boss Pole
6) Big Choppa, Twin Linked Shoota, Ammo Runt
7) Big Choppa, Shoota/Skorcha Kombi
8) Big Choppa, Twin Linked Shoota
9) Twin Linked Shoota, Boss Pole
10) Pain Boy w/ Grot Orderly
Dedicated Trukk w/ Reinforced Ram and Red Paint Job

I know many people don't like having more than three PKs in the group and I have thus far found Shoota/Skorcha Kombi's way more useful than Shoota/Rokkit Kombi's.

Light (Anticipation of drawing a lot of enemy fire, usually versus IG)

10 Nob Cyborks in ‘Eavy Armor w/ Stikk Bombs:
1) Twin Linked Shoota
2) Power Klaw, Shoota/Skorcha Kombi
3) Shoota/Skorcha Kombi, Boss Pole
4) Waaagh! Banner, Power Klaw
5) Boss Pole
6) Big Choppa
7) Big Choppa, Shoota/Skorcha Kombi
8) Twin Linked Shoota, Ammo Runt
9) Twin Linked Shoota, Boss Pole
10) Pain Boy w/ Grot Orderly
Dedicated Trukk w/ Reinforced Ram and Red Paint Job

This one is pared down to save a few points and has only two PKs.

Why not put a Big Choppa in the second group instead of one of the TL Shootas?

That would make too much sense!

You are absolutely right. I added the 'Light' list as an afterthought and goofed it. I will fix and scrutinize right now. Thanks.

What are you attempting to achieve with them? Its hard to make a critique when I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish. When I make a Nob squad, I want the killiest possible unit for the fewest possible points. I've gotten it down to a science, including how many models have a kombi-skorcha, why, and where they stand in my gaggle, to all sorts of things.

So what are you trying to accomplish? Why the selection of wargear that you chose? Without knowing your reasoning for it...hard to say if it makes sense or not.

Without knowing any of that, I'd say that you could save quite a few points by consolidating wargear to only 1-2 things per person where required for differentiation. Then again, you probably already knew that and did what you did here for a reason.

Do you have Ghazghkull? Do you have a tendency to Waaaugh! on the turn you charge? If either is true, you are probably wasting points with the twin linked shootas. My nobs rarely shoot; they usually are on the Waaaugh! and running, then assaulting. Why so many bosspoles? There's better stuff that you can get for 5 points...regardless of your intent with these guys!

I'm also not a fan of Cybork bodies. I don't think that 5+ procs often enough for me to justify spending 50 points on it, and if you play your nobs well you shouldn't ever need it. You're protected against shooting by being in a trukk. If your trukk explodes, you have 4+ armor saves. If someone shoots at you after blowing up your trukk, you have 4+ cover saves. Moving to combat, one would hope you'd move in such a way to get cover....still no need for a 5+ invulnerable save.

When you assault, power weapons can hurt you and you'd need an invulnerable save here...my solution is simply not to have my nobs assault things with a ridiculous number of powerfists, lightning klaws, thunderhammers, etc. I'll use them as a counter-assault force instead. If something really scary needs to be tackled, I send Ghazghkull after it with his 2+ invulnerable save...he'll spend a turn chopping at it, then the nobs will pile in next turn and take advantage of the requirements of complex assault to stay mostly safe.

Dashofpepper wrote:...I've gotten it down to a science, including how many models have a kombi-skorcha, why, and where they stand in my gaggle, to all sorts of things....

I assume that means you adjust your Nobz as needed for specific enemies? My experience is relatively limited so I am also looking for variations and refinement.

Dashofpepper wrote: So what are you trying to accomplish? Why the selection of wargear that you chose? Without knowing your reasoning for it...hard to say if it makes sense or not.

Yes, Thraka is with them but detaches (usually) upon disembarkation. I do try to WAAAGH! when assaulting. I am usually assaulting vehicles (IG, SoBs, SM, Necrons are my usual opponents). The Kombi Skorchas usually come in handy a turn or two after the initial assaults.

The 'light' list I am toying with simply because my regular IG opponent respects the Nobz so much he dedicates all heavy firepower he can against them. So much so the Nobz make for a great distraction (granted, this is opponent specific). If I can keep them as survivable as possible while he pounds the crap out of them, I can continue working other units into CC and around his flanks.

These Nobz are run in a fully mechanized list, all boyz, all trukks and two Battlewagons (as I only have two models at this time).

I am curious, why no cyborks?

As Dashofpepper said, you want to kill as much with as few points as possible. I also agree that cybork bodies are not worth it on nobs.

If you load up your Nob squad to be 500+ points sitting in an AV10 truuk, then they will become target #1. Keeping them at ~300 points makes a significantly less expensive investment. Heck, you can almost afford 2 of the smaller ones for the cost of the big squad. That's food for thought!

Finally, Nobs in reserve can make a great counter-assault force. The truuk can come in 13" from your board edge. The boys can deploy 2" from the truuk. (15" from your board edge so far) They can waaaaage up another d6". (16-21" from your board edge so far) and charge another 6" (totalling 22-27" from your board edge)

I have been toying with two lighter (even lighter than the one above) Nob units so it is always good to hear others like it.

Why no cybork bodies on Nobz? They've helped me more than they've hurt but I'd like to understand your guys' perspective on it (DashofPepper and labmouse42).

Any suggestions on Nobz lite and how to outfit? I assume they should still be individualized? I am interested in this perspective too.

Here's my mob and how I determined its loadout.

First, I listed the essentials.

I knew that I needed at least one of each of these:

1 Nob + Power Klaw
1 Nob + Bosspole
1 Nob + Waaagh! Banner
1 Painboy

Then I decided to add a Big Choppa. I did this to create another wound group, as well as to give one Nob an opportunity to attack hard, but at a higher initiative than a Power Klaw.

At this point my mob looked like this:

1 Nob + Big Choppa
1 Nob + Power Klaw
1 Nob + Bosspole
1 Nob + Waaagh! Banner
1 Painboy

The only piece of equipment that I was missing then was Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-Weapons. Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-Weapons replace Sluggas, and you never want to give one to a Nob that isn't already equipped to carry a Big Choppa or Power Klaw. Nobz that carry Big Choppas and Power Klaws can't utilize a Slugga for extra attacks so replacing their Sluggas with Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-Weapons doesn't decrease their close combat efficiency. A Nob that carries a Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-Weapon and a regular Choppa is fighting below his maximum close combat output.

I added two Nobz with Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-Weapons, giving one a Big Choppa and one a Power Klaw:

1 Nob + Big Choppa
1 Nob + Big Choppa and Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-Weapon
1 Nob + Power Klaw
1 Nob + Power Klaw and Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-Weapon
1 Nob + Bosspole
1 Nob + Waaagh! Banner
1 Painboy

I now had all of my essential equipment, and I needed to start looking at how to create three more wound groups. As far as other equipment options were concerned, Twin-linked Shootas and Shoota/Rokkit Kombi-Weapons did not appear to be very appealing. I did not intend for my Nobz to stand and shoot, and their high strength close combat weaponry provided better anti-tank capabilities than a single shot from a rokkit launcha. I decided that I needed more Power Klaws, Big Choppas, and Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-Weapons. To add more of these items and still create new wound groups, I needed to select a third piece of equipment for these Nobz. That piece of equipment was an Ammo Runt, due to its cheapness.

My mob then looked like this:

1 Nob + Big Choppa
1 Nob + Big Choppa and Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-Weapon
1 Nob + Big Choppa, Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-Weapon, and Ammo Runt
1 Nob + Power Klaw
1 Nob + Power Klaw and Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-Weapon
1 Nob + Power Klaw, Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-Weapon, and Ammo Runt
1 Nob + Bosspole
1 Nob + Waaagh! Banner
1 Painboy

To finish off the mob, I added a Nob equipped with just a Slugga and Choppa. Then I used the Painboy's benefits to give the mob Cybork Bodies.

The final loadout for my Nobz was this:

1 Nob
1 Nob + Big Choppa
1 Nob + Big Choppa and Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-Weapon
1 Nob + Big Choppa, Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-Weapon, and Ammo Runt
1 Nob + Power Klaw
1 Nob + Power Klaw and Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-Weapon
1 Nob + Power Klaw, Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-Weapon, and Ammo Runt
1 Nob + Bosspole
1 Nob + Waaagh! Banner
1 Painboy
+ Cybork Bodies

The grand total is 421 points of individually equipped Nobz, ready and raring to be placed into a trukk, battlewagon, or onto warbikes so they can hurtle across the battlefield and get into a scrap. I hope this post helps to give you ideas for your Nobz! Now go krump all of those other weedy armies! Waaagh!

Interesting...
In my opinion, all that is good but only having one Nob with a bosspole is not enough. I think 3 bosspoles is enough to ensure that you will always have a way to keep the force together. If you give a bosspole to your Waaagh banner Nob also, seeing as you'll probably knock him off last if you have the choice, it means that you'll maintain your leadership help and the extra attacks right to the end (that's right, isn't it?)
otherwise, I think Zog Off has hit the nail on the head. Or the space marine on the head, as it were.

Zog Off wrote:Here's my mob and how I determined ...

Very nice indeed! I'm glad you have a logical flow. Very useful, thanks.

I would like an opinion on Cyborks or no Cyborks beyond, "It should be obvious." types of answers. I see Dash of Pepper feels his vehicle provides enough protection but anyone else? Any insight?

To cybork or not to cybork? That is the question.

Nightwatch wrote:Interesting...
In my opinion, all that is good but only having one Nob with a bosspole is not enough. I think 3 bosspoles is enough to ensure that you will always have a way to keep the force together. If you give a bosspole to your Waaagh banner Nob also, seeing as you'll probably knock him off last if you have the choice, it means that you'll maintain your leadership help and the extra attacks right to the end (that's right, isn't it?)
otherwise, I think Zog Off has hit the nail on the head. Or the space marine on the head, as it were.

I will admit that the single bosspole means that I still am not pushing my mob to its limits. If I were smart, I would replace the ammo runts with additional bosspoles. Still, even when putting together cheese-flavored nobz, it just feels wrong to me for a mob to have more than one bosspole. Plus, it helps me sleep better at night, knowing that my opponent has at least a small chance of sending these guys packing - as long as that opponent can kill off my bosspole and cause a morale check before my nobz slam into the enemy ranks!

Very true. In my experience, the ammo runts aren't that useful unless you want to take kombirokkits, but it's a choice you have to make yourself

GoFenris wrote:

Zog Off wrote:Here's my mob and how I determined ...

Very nice indeed! I'm glad you have a logical flow. Very useful, thanks.

I would like an opinion on Cyborks or no Cyborks beyond, "It should be obvious." types of answers. I see Dash of Pepper feels his vehicle provides enough protection but anyone else? Any insight?

To cybork or not to cybork? That is the question.

I take Cybork Bodies. For one reason, the addition of a Painboy helps me create another wound group. Once I add that Painboy, I feel that I am not using him to his greatest benefit unless I take Cybork Bodies. A Painboy, by himself, gives you Feel No Pain. For the most part, Feel No Pain saves you from having to purchase 'Eavy Armour. The points you save by not purchasing 'Eavy Armour pay for Cybork Bodies. Then the Cybork Bodies do their best against whatever Feel No Pain can't cover. I am far from a perfect player, and I just appreciate the small boost of survivability that Cybork Bodies give me. I feel that they help minimize the damage that could be done to me whenever I make a mistake.

As for why not to take Cybork Bodies....I thought I explained the exact science of it in my first post.

-You don't need it while you're in a vehicle.
-You don't need it when get knocked out of your vehicle.
-You don't need it when you're on foot trying to get to the enemy
-You don't need it when you assault anything that isn't powerweapon heavy

-You DO need it when you assault powerweapon heavy units.

Well....out of only 5 possible scenarios in the game, 4 of them invalidate the usefulness of cybork body, so my solution is to avoid #5. For everything else, I have at least one 4+ save; be it armor or cover save, and I probably have a second for FNP.

I do *NOT* customize my nobs between opponents; I have a standard loadout for them. Its the cheapest, most effective nob unit that I can assemble.

1. Painboy
2. Bosspole
3. Waaaugh! Banner
4. Powerklaw
5. POwerklaw, Ammo Runt
6. Powerklaw, Kombi-Skorcha
7. Big Choppa
8. Big Choppa, Ammo Runt
9. Big Choppa, Kombi-Skorcha
10. Normal Nob

Cool, thanks!

Any other viewpoints?

Anyone? Else? Really? (Yes I'm bumping my own thread)

I am still interested in perspectives regarding Nobz and how they're outfitted...

Personally when I make up nobz, I pretty much NEVER take huge choppas. I take the regular slugga/choppa. You get +1 attack VS. the huge choppa, and in most cases the huge choppa doesnt kill things better then the normal set up. That saves upto 45pts in a nobz squad (considering you take 1 PK and the rest huge choppas of course)
Sure they are stronger but by only a little bit, and most armies nobz just wail on them because they are WAY stronger then the toughness of said army. Also I never take more then 2 PK. Unless Im getting ridiculous and just want to waste points lol
Doing a minimum weapons Nobz squad, has caught me some real SERIOUS unit kills in my games. Those extra points are great going towards painboyz and the like

Running the Mathhammer, the only place where a Big Choppa is worth 5 points more is if you are assaulting a vehicle otherwise you might as well spend 20 more points for the high strength to be effective all the time...

The only other situation is if you are assaulting a monstrous creature and you cannot hurt it with S4-5 but then you have to contend with the armor save...

Zog off and nightwatch has got it right on the multiple bosspoles and cybork.

In addition :-
You will need your nobz to get into CC almost 100%of the time, and that's when you ll need the cybork very very much. I don't think I have to do the math here to prove the extra survivability cybork provides, even the newbies can do it. And if you are avoiding some troops just because you don't have cybork (what a joke), then i would rather you do not field them at all .

But yes, i agree you should not waste too many points trying to customise the nobz. Personally, i start off from a normal standard nob (meaning no upgrades at all), and expand the other nobs from there. You can even make use of the eavy armor to do this IF you want. Give it to the cheapest nobz, and always allocate wound to him first.

See the armor save is really the factor that makes huge choppas not as effective. Like stated earlier on the things it actually does a difference on. Still tho, on assaulting rhinos for instance, CC attacks hit on the rear, so even a basic boy can do damage on a 6. If you have just a boyz squad in a trukk, so 12 Orks with CC weapons ( same set up with the nob) thats 49 attacks on the charge. Sure you need 6s but that many attacks, you literally just run over rhinos and the like. I do it all the time so TRUST me it works like a charm.

If you give the Eavy Armor to "most" of the unit, doesn't it become a mixed armor save unit, and use the 4+ anyway until it evens out?

There is nothing like a good ol' bunch of 10 Nobs with big choppas and sluggas. That is my honest opinion. NO CYBORKS!!

Power Klaws - I almost always run two power klaws. The unit loses a lot of effectiveness with none or one. The only time I run three is when I won't be running a warboss with my nobs. More than that is always a waste of points. You might as well just run mega nobz if you're going to run more than three PKs.

Big Choppaz - They always do well for me. I usually take 4 of them. They're cheap and they hit hard. Put enough of them in the unit and your opponent is going to fail a lot of his armor saves. Against most units you'll be at 3+ to hit and 2+ to wound even in subsequent rounds of combat (if you have a waagh banner which you should also take every single time). They strike in initiative order so you'll actually have a chance of doing some damage against stuff like dreadnaughts or wraithlords before they get a chance to make their attacks.

Cybork Bodies - I always take a painboy and cybork bodies. Feel no pain adds so much survivability to the unit that it's almost broken. Too many people figure "well they've got feel no pain so they don't need armor". You take your feel no pain test after armor saves so any armor save that you can stack on top of it just makes your nobs that much harder to kill. On top of that, for 5 points per model you get to improve the t-shirt save to a 5+ invulnerable for every model in the unit? Yes please. The types of units that you'll probably be assaulting with your nobs are going to have power klaws, power swords and the like. Even if the unit doesn't have any specialized CC weapons you're still improving your armor save enough to save a couple of wounds every turn and provide some protection in case you get shot up by high ap weapons

Kombi/skorcha - I take 2 or 3 every time. You just have to be aware of where you place the models that are armed with them. I don't get why people take ammo runts on their kombi/skorcha nobs. You do know that you can't use an ammo runt to reroll wounds from a skorcha, right? it only allows you to reroll failed to-hits.

Twin-Linked shoota - I take these mostly for wound allocation reasons. They're better than kombi/rokkits and I'd rather my big choppa or PK nobs be armed with something better than a slugga just in case they get to shoot. Why pay 3 points for an ammo runt when you can pay 5 points for a twin-linked shoota that works more than once.

'Eavy armor - I always give a few nobs 'eavy armor. Once again, it's for wound allocation reasons. It improves their survivability in close combat and will grant you the occasional improved armor save. If I need to pick up a few points in the rest of my army then this is the first thing to go.

Ammo runts - These are worthless imo. Bikers weapons are twin-linked, anyway and a twin-linked shoota is much more economical for a nob on foot.

Bosspoles - I always take one. I've never lost it before it didn't matter anymore.

Waagh banner - Don't leave home without it.

Biker upgrade - This one's a no brainer. If you've got the models it's the most effective way to take nobs against 99% of the armies out there.

I tend to shoot a lot with my nobs. I almost always run them in a battlewagon so I can usually be guaranteed a couple of rounds of shooting while they're still mounted. Also, I almost always get close enough after dismounting from the battlewagon that I don't need to waagh to get into charge range. Even if I do waagh, the chances are good that whatever I charge with my nobs will get smashed in one round of combat. That almost ensures that they'll get to shoot again at some point even if dismounted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's the typical loadout that I've finally settled on. Partly because I have the models and partly because it's proven to be very effective. I take this against all comers. The total is 415 points so it's still pretty cheap

cybork bodies
1: painboy
2: slugga and choppa
3: slugga and choppa, waagh banner, 'eavy armor
4: slugga and choppa, 'eavy armor
5: Power Klaw, Kombi-Skorcha
6: Power Klaw, Kombi-Skorcha, 'eavy armor
7: Big Choppa, Kombi-Skorcha
8: Big Choppa, Twin-Linked Shoota, bosspole
9: Big Choppa, Twin-Linked Shoota, 'eavy armor
10: Big Choppa

Is that with/out the Cybork?

I like Dash's loadout for them but I would make a few changes to it.

1. Painboy
2. Kombi-Skorcha
3. Ammo Runt
4. Powerklaw
5. Powerklaw, Waaaugh! Banner
6. Powerklaw, Kombi-Skorcha
7. Big Choppa
8. Big Choppa, Boss Pole
9. Big Choppa, Kombi-Skorcha
10. Normal Nob

Uriels_Flame wrote:Is that with/out the Cybork?

with