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 Galef wrote:
What's RR1 and RRA?

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Reroll 1s and Reroll all. Basically Watch Captain and Watch Master auras respectively.

Keep in mind that this chart assumes optimal scenarios for each ammo type. As such when those scenarios are not in play, you need to do some movement on the grid. It's why Dragonfire looks so good, but is actually garbage

Makes sense, thanx. The chart also only shows Bolters, which can still be applied to Stormbolters, but doesn't really apply to Intercessor Bolt Rifles.
Although the "Vengeance" results would be the same as Bolt Rifle Kraken results

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 Galef wrote:
Makes sense, thanx. The chart also only shows Bolters, which can still be applied to Stormbolters, but doesn't really apply to Intercessor Bolt Rifles.
Although the "Vengeance" results would be the same as Bolt Rifle Kraken results

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This chart was done when we got access to SIA Storm Bolters basically. That's what my memory says anyway.

Thanks for posting that SIA table!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So knights are a thing. Tournie I went to this weekend - by the end of the second round I had faced 8 knights: a castellan 3 Gallants a crusader and 3 FW knights. I did kill 5 and wounding the others enough to kill a 6th. I had a battalion of DW some tank commanders and a Krast Knight. I’m finding I don’t really need a battalion of SIA. I need more knight killing power. Desperate for it actually. There were other knight armies there so it’s not like they all came to me.

I’m testing a unit of terminators. 330 points for 3 TH/SH and 3 with SB/Cyclone Missile Launcher and power maul. The shields are there to give 3++. The reason is those missiles are D6 damage each. I can hide them, buff them and use strats in them.

Are there any other crazy ideas to help the knight match up? Ultramarines with Killshot?

The only bolter ammo that needs a look is Dragon fire. I get plenty of use out of the other 3. If they at least let it ignore cover in addition to the +1 to hit, I may actually use it once in a while. Then, if they made the cities of death cover rules standard, it could be an effective choice.

Dragonfire should be +1 to hit and mortal wound on a dice roll of a 6 while shooting at models in cover.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Dragonfire should be +1 to hit and mortal wound on a dice roll of a 6 while shooting at models in cover.

My friends are angry when I play against them with DW and use Hellfire. They are all the time crying around the table because how OP it is. If we also have this I would need to check rival in another area.

I think mortal wounds is too much.

 Chris521 wrote:
The only bolter ammo that needs a look is Dragon fire. I get plenty of use out of the other 3. If they at least let it ignore cover in addition to the +1 to hit, I may actually use it once in a while. Then, if they made the cities of death cover rules standard, it could be an effective choice.

This would be the best solution. It would still be a niche ammo, but I think would still be used at least to combat snipers.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Thanx Slayer-Fan. That's really helpful. Although, correct my reading of that, but it looks like Kraken is never ideal, which is surprising considering even Dragonfire has some green on that chart.

Obviously that would change if there are situations in which Kraken would give double shots when other mode would not

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And when you look at double the shots, you up notice how Kraken gets ahead overall.

Yeah, Krakken is strictly worse than Vengeance when both are rolling dice. It's entire advantage is the extra foot of range where it can roll dice and vengeance cannot.

Dragonfire rounds just don't do anything. They feel like they were written at a time when cover added a penalty to hit instead of an armor bonus. It just needs to be rethought and redesigned. Ignoring modifiers could be really cool.

I'm confused by the previous chart. Too many axis make my eyes hurt. What are the +1 etc referring to? Number of shots or number of nsaved wounds? Because it looks like the green chart numbers indicate how many shots are needed to get an unsaved wound. And the charts are divided by toughness....so what the hell is the +1 +2 +3 horizontal axis?

It refers to saves.

Any thoughts on us getting vanguard marines? I think infiltrators would really benefit from SIA especially with their 6 to hit being an auto wound.

Specifically not getting them at this time.

 Eldarain wrote:
Specifically not getting them at this time.

Yeah it's a shame, might just paint up the infiltrators and use them as counts as intercessors for now as I love the models.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It refers to saves.

Ok, so thats what I thought. But then what in the green hells has a +1 save? Or a +7?

Poxwalkers have a +7, nothing has a +1 as it acts like a 2++ save in practice. Guessing those actually refer to the common shortcut of saying a +2 with +1 to save is +1, which is not really how it works.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It refers to saves.

Ok, so thats what I thought. But then what in the green hells has a +1 save? Or a +7?

7+ refers to poxwalkers, and 1+ to 2+ dudes in cover typically.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Keep in mind that does affect math though when it comes to Dragonfire rounds and kraken.

Having plenty of joy with my Primaris kill team containing 5 intercessors, 3 aggressors and and inceptor. Stick them in the teleport with a squad of 9 as/SB vets and a jump captain and you've got some real crazy anti infantry fire. Played last night and they smashed a unit of 30 boys and a weirdboy as they landed and then in the following turn destroyed a squad of Ork bikes in combat.

Stem the green tide is utterly amazing, had 5 mega armour nobz jump behind me then played the strat as they charged my redemptor, he then killed one and he ended up taking his charge by 1!

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Having plenty of joy with my Primaris kill team containing 5 intercessors, 3 aggressors and and inceptor. Stick them in the teleport with a squad of 9 as/SB vets and a jump captain and you've got some real crazy anti infantry fire. Played last night and they smashed a unit of 30 boys and a weirdboy as they landed and then in the following turn destroyed a squad of Ork bikes in combat.

Stem the green tide is utterly amazing, had 5 mega armour nobz jump behind me then played the strat as they charged my redemptor, he then killed one and he ended up taking his charge by 1!

Any reason you go one short on the gravis armor models losing out on giving the whole squad T5? My experience is they still get wiped too easily but the T5 on the five Intercessors before I have to start pulling Aggressors is very noticeable.

RogueApiary wrote:

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Having plenty of joy with my Primaris kill team containing 5 intercessors, 3 aggressors and and inceptor. Stick them in the teleport with a squad of 9 as/SB vets and a jump captain and you've got some real crazy anti infantry fire. Played last night and they smashed a unit of 30 boys and a weirdboy as they landed and then in the following turn destroyed a squad of Ork bikes in combat.

Stem the green tide is utterly amazing, had 5 mega armour nobz jump behind me then played the strat as they charged my redemptor, he then killed one and he ended up taking his charge by 1!

Any reason you go one short on the gravis armor models losing out on giving the whole squad T5? My experience is they still get wiped too easily but the T5 on the five Intercessors before I have to start pulling Aggressors is very noticeable.

Just the models I have painted up and have available, however I am in the process of painting 3 more Inceptors so will probably put one into the squad!

One question. Am I a bastard for using two veteran squads with 4 SS in each one?

I only give the squad one SB to my Sgt and the one from the Terminator and I do that just because i don´t want to listen more to my friend crying.

Nope. Durability versus high quality fire is Deathwatch's strength. Mobility problems, less than stellar anti-tank, vulnerability to buckets of dice and mortal wounds are the drawbacks.

We spend upwards of 200 points for a fully kitted out Veteran squad. That's more than most tanks for other factions.

So, I currently run 1 squad of 8 Vets with SS/SBs, and they are like paper people. They get charged by a rhino, and then a squad of CSMs, and they are dust. They can't do melee and they have zero anti tank, so I don't feel bad using them.

Intercessors on the other hand, I run three squads of 5 Ints ad 5 Hellblasters, and the 10 wound meat shield surrounding the HB's make them pretty resilient. They also die to anything that gets in melee though.

I don't really ever feel "bad" or "that guyish" as Deathwatch. They've got some pretty killer combos, but let's not go overboard here. They aren't 3 squads of Jet Bikes, or a Reaper spam.

Deathwatch being Deathwatch isn't broken. Idiots who don't bring heavy support or transports to soak up overwatch deserve to lose.

What have you been currently (and efficiently) allying with Deathwatch if anything at all?

EDIT: and obv. why? Would like to hear some opinions on allies

I run pure Deathwatch and have been doing ok, played a relatively poor chaos player recently and hammered him twice then played orks last week and had a very even game. Stem the green tide is amazing, he used da jump on a squad of mega nobz to get them behind my redemptor and I managed to use the strat and killed 1 of them stopping the charge. My opponent was absolutely furious it was great.

My main tactic is to use my main force as a mobile castle with 2 Primaris kill teams and 3 dreads with the repulsor and characters. In reserve I have a smash captain along with a big Primaris kill team with intercessors and aggressors and 9 vets with storm bolters. I basically engage with the main force then deep strike behind the enemy force and catch then in a big rapid fire sandwich.

Any ideas on Pure DW now with the new ITC faction changes ?

 zedsdead wrote:
Any ideas on Pure DW now with the new ITC faction changes ?

Double Battalion with Dreadnoughts is pretty much how it works.

Which sucks because our HQ units are so expensive.

 LunarSol wrote:

 zedsdead wrote:
Any ideas on Pure DW now with the new ITC faction changes ?

Double Battalion with Dreadnoughts is pretty much how it works.

The only thing that annoys me is the real life cost of the contemptor dread...