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GW has no plans to support Genestealer cults, Harlequins, Kroot or any other army within an army. It takes too long to beta test rules and they won't release rules for armies that might cause problems if they're overpowered or underpowered

GW has no plans to introduce a new race. The last time they did that other races suffered.

GW will eventually get to every army book out there but we will NEVER get any advanced info other than the three months they do now. They said they want people to be excited when things come out. And if they release info one year out people will want two years out. They chose three months.

Dark Eldar are not being squatted.

In their eyes Warhammer and 40K are equal. Though they acknowledged the feeling with the players was that 40K was favored more.

Apocalypse and the plastic superheavies were a gamble that paid off and others could be done.

Commissar wrote:Apocalypse and the plastic superheavies were a gamble that paid off and others could be done.

Don't be so naive. Apocalypse was hardly a "gamble", only if you consider the years of market research and "testing" the waters with Forgeworld stuff. How many people play megabattles with all their friends or at stores quite regularly. So GW said, well, we know everyone loves playing with everything they have, and with big stuff, so lets just give them a book that says they can. And as an added bonus, we'll make up "formations" where you can have multiples of stuff that makes it even better. (Multiples means buying more stuff.) So now there are actually rules and incentive to play extremely large games, and that drives demand for more GW product.

It's the same thing as 'Ard Boyz. Promote a tourney of 2500 points (larger than most accepted GT style tournies) and eliminate the painting requirement, and you have a recipe for "enlarging" armies, or just creating new armies specifically for that tournament. Once again, you create a demand, and you have sales. And everybody has fun playing in a sanctioned event. Win/win for everybody.

Apocalypse was pure business genius.

And while GW may be a game company, they still do have accounting, business management and marketing people that go over historical sales and other data to help guide and inform the company so they can make informed business decisions. It's the way a business works.

So anyway, with that said, releasing new product is no more a gamble than Mcdonalds releasing a new burger. They already have a pretty good idea of how it will go before they start pushing it, but they know it won't bomb completely.

I'd say the biggest gamble GW has taken in a while was the Tau, since that was a completely new endeavor for 40k. It could have easily bombed.

I think it was a calculated risk. If people hadn't embraced Apocalype, then they'd have spent money developing Super Heavy Plastics which didn't make their money back.

However, I think it's safe to say Apocalypse exceeded all expectations. Certainly I know of people who rather than collect a pre-written army list for a new army, instead go for Apocalypse formations!

Teh apoc rules weren't a huge gamble, but the baneblade kit was. That was a lot of sprue that needed to pay for itself. I think that it was less a gamble than they might think, but we here are also the core of GW's audience. IMO the baneblade sold far in excess of what I even predicted. How many people have 3+ of the damn things now?

Commissar wrote:GW has no plans to support Genestealer cults, Harlequins, Kroot or any other army within an army. It takes too long to beta test rules and they won't release rules for armies that might cause problems if they're overpowered or underpowered

What they meant by that is that they won't release an army that doesn't have miniatures to go with it any more. If you can't sell models, why bother writing the rules?

Polonius wrote:How many people have 3+ of the damn things now?

*cough* Seven *cough*

I agree with the APOC in here. When I first heard about it coming out I thought oh thatd be cool. Shoot everyone knows SOMEONE that has some form of super heavy in their army. I see baneblades everywhere. Hell as soon as I have a spare $100 Im buying a stompa just to have one. I dont even play APOC but I want one so damn bad!

Super-heavies are an obsession? Four and counting..

Polonius wrote:Teh apoc rules weren't a huge gamble, but the baneblade kit was. That was a lot of sprue that needed to pay for itself. I think that it was less a gamble than they might think, but we here are also the core of GW's audience. IMO the baneblade sold far in excess of what I even predicted. How many people have 3+ of the damn things now?

Yeah, guilty as charged.

Exactly. No more a calculated risk than any smart business venture. They did their research, they put out the right product, and they supported it.

Game.
Set.
Match.

And we all profit with our 3+ plastic baneblades.

Commissar wrote:GW has no plans to support Genestealer cults, Harlequins, Kroot or any other army within an army. It takes too long to beta test rules and they won't release rules for armies that might cause problems if they're overpowered or underpowered

So you want GW to put out army lists which it won't have the time to playtest adequately? Seriously?!? Because as far as I can tell all that those White Dwarf army lists from the 80's and 90's were were poorly balanced lists produced to spur sales, and Apocalypse is GW's new mechanism for doing that.

On the other hand, if you're askying why GW doesn't want to go through the effort of releasing balanced, updated versions of the old *unofficial* White Dwarf army lists, I was under the impression that they gave a decent reason at Gamesday: The time and money required means that there's no business case to do so, so they can't as a legitimate business.

solkan wrote:Because as far as I can tell all that those White Dwarf army lists from the 80's and 90's were were poorly balanced lists produced to spur sales.

GW's current army lists are poorly balanced and exist only to spur sales, so I fail to see the difference.

GW playtests?

They say they do, so it must be true!

Commissar wrote:GW has no plans to support Genestealer cults, Harlequins, Kroot or any other army within an army.

GW has no plans to introduce a new race.

GW will eventually get to every army book out there but we will NEVER get any advanced info other than the three months they do now.

Dark Eldar are not being squatted.

In their eyes Warhammer and 40K are equal.

Apocalypse and the plastic superheavies were a gamble that paid off and others could be done.

I'm not surprised that GW is closing the door on variant lists because GW isn't clear enough to the players as to what's "Official" (for tournaments and "formal" gaming), and what's "by Opponent Permission" (casual and "informal" gaming). Pity, really.

It's kinda sad that GW has frozen the gaming universe at this point, but at least they're not going to release any more junk that they can't properly support. Of course, if GW could define "support" better, they wouldn't be in this mess in the first place... Still, at least this means my WFB Dogs of War will "eventually" get some sort of printed Army Book.

The idea that they can't share a year-long release plan for things that take at least 2 years of development is pretty silly. Communicating with transparency is a benefit to their Customers, and would do more to take some of the cynicism down.

Yeah, but GW didn't say *when* or *how* they're going support them, either. For all we know, "support" might mean that Dark Eldar get the Harlequin treatment and become a single entry in the next Eldar Codex.

Amusingly, WFB and 40k being "equal in their eyes" doesn't translate into actions, especially with WotR now in the mix. It's looking like 40k (and WotR to a lesser extent) is just a bit "more equal" than Fantasy.

Apoc wasn't a "gamble" per se, not like LotR, at least. For all GW knew, Apoc would have fallen flat like WFB Mighty Empires or WFB Siege / Legendary, and they'd be stuck with a bunch of kits like the WFB Siege Castles.
____

Polonius wrote:How many people have 3+ of the damn things now?

I only have one. But I bought 2 Shadowsword kits, so that's 3 Baneblade-class superheavy tanks total.

Keeping a tight lid on what's coming out is a marketing ploy to prevent a situation where people who are looking to expand or start a new army may not purchase items because they know that a year down the line a new book will come out.

They figure that you'll buy now and then when the book comes out buy again.

At least that's how I reasoned it. I can't think of another reason for them to be so tight lipped about it. Most companies want to build up hype but GW do the opposite.

Kroot have been 'updated'. They got an APOC datasheet! I've wondered if that's not the deathbed of 'armies within an army'. They don't actually have to playtest it, just come up with some reasonable rules because it's 'just fun, and if you don't like it, make up your own rules!'.

dietrich wrote:Kroot have been 'updated'. They got an APOC datasheet!

Oohhh... I forgot about that.

Yo! CT, didn't LatD get a datasheet?

Yes, LatD have a APOC datasheet. So do Wulfen (which makes me think that they won't be in the SW codex).

No, it means that Wulfen will be an Elite entry like Harlies and Legion of the Damned.

Noisy_Marine wrote:GW playtests?

Yes, but they do it as well as most people wipe their butts.. Not very well, thus leaving a very obvious odor...

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Polonius wrote:How many people have 3+ of the damn things now?

*cough* Seven *cough*

Oh... I'm certain that there are more than seven people with that many.

: )

Eric

Commissar wrote:

GW has no plans to introduce a new race. The last time they did that other races suffered.

They lied to you. GW doesn't care about hurting or helping armies. They just don't want to spend the money and time right now.

GW and "never" really don't go together well. They definitely seem to suffer from a bit of corporate ADD as products and policies change with the winds.

I'm sure at some point they said they'd never stop doing a bitz service, or would never make a deal to put old board games back in service, etc...

Look at how long the podcast lasted, or Black Gobbo's few years of production...

To be honest.....who cares!?

Ok, I'm being selfish here, as I'm well on the path to experimenting and actively hunting down alternative games for me and the group to play......so for me, and people with my mind set this news is really bordering on "good" news.

The way I see it, the less "new" and shiny things coming out of GW headquarters means more eyes focused elsewhere.....and with so many other companies producing nice models, interesting rules and fluff, we need never really suck from the GW teet again!

Polonius wrote: IMO the baneblade sold far in excess of what I even predicted. How many people have 3+ of the damn things now?

I only have one.

JohnHwangDD wrote:...
Yeah, but GW didn't say *when* or *how* they're going support them, either. For all we know, "support" might mean that Dark Eldar get the Harlequin treatment and become a single entry in the next Eldar Codex.

SHAME SHAME SHAME on you for not starting this as a rumor! The entertainment quotient is inconcievable!

two_heads_talking wrote:

Noisy_Marine wrote:GW playtests?

Yes, but they do it as well as most people wipe their butts.. Not very well, thus leaving a very obvious odor...

Codex: Skidmark.

I really did enjoy the Q & A session at gamesday. And the info I was relaying was just what I gleamed from it. I will admit I was hoping for rules in a White Dwarf for Harlequins, Kroot, Genestealers, LotD etc. I like the idea of running alternate armies. I know you can do the Harlequins as Eldar or Kroot as Orks but they're own rules would have been nice. Not that I wouldn't want them balanced. I just thought it would be cool to have rules for these armies. But I understand they're reasoning.

whitedragon wrote:
And we all profit with our 3+ plastic stompas

Fixd


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

dietrich wrote:Kroot have been 'updated'. They got an APOC datasheet!

Oohhh... I forgot about that.

Yo! CT, didn't LatD get a datasheet?

Yes they did, now I just need to go out and buy the three Baneblades and whatnot to bring them up to Apoc level...

I'm good thanks.