Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I played against a O&G Player and he used the base of the "goblin with wings" mini as a "blast marker" for his Doom Diver, usualy hitting 2 formations with only 1 shot.

As I understand the rule, the Doom Diver shot hits only a point in the battlefield. If that point hits 1 model, the unit he is in takes damage. The base of the Goblin in not used at all.

What is the right interpretation?

Thanks

Fabio

Sorry Fabio, your mate is correct.

The rules for the doom diver state that, if the Goblin hits a model from that unit the unit takes D6 hits. Nothing states that only one model can be hit, or only one unit is affected.

Except for the fact that you don't actually use the guy with the base marker as a mini-blast template. It's simply a straight up measure from the war machine and a d3 adjustment.

Thats weird, it specifically states THE GOBLIN when talking about how you move and measure, and determine what is touching what.

Do you have any rules to back up your opinion?

I've never seen the goblin used as a mini template. I think the 'Goblin' in the text is more fluff than rules.

Ah, you think it is but nothing actually states so.

You are told to use the model, so you use the model.

You're not told to use the model. Does the book at any point say anything like, "Place the Goblin with wings model on the point marked and any units covered by the Goblin take hits"? I don't think so.

In the case of the Doom Diver, you're only hitting a point, which can only be on a maximum of one unit.

But the question begs: Why are your units so close together in the first place?

What part of "If the Goblin hits an enemy model" do you think means you don't use the model?

Seriously, it's in the rules. The Goblin hits a model. Who is "The Goblin" in the sentence about "Goblin Doomdiver"? Let's think....:rolleyes:

That's like saying the cannonball or bolt from a bolt thrower is in the rules so there needs to be a model for it. Same wording, "If the rank hit by the bolt..."

fspicinin- your interpretation is correct.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:

But the question begs: Why are your units so close together in the first place?

Well ... I had 4 blocks of infantry and the table was not the official lenght size. It was keep that close or spend 3 rounds manuvering arround a Tower.

I belived my interpretation was right, but the wording of the rule and the fact the doom diver came with the goblin mini does not help my point in the middle of a game.

Except there IS a model for the Goblin Doom Diver, and the rules tell you to use it.

For cannonballs and bolts you are told they generate a line / point.

Throwing my vote in Bat and Manfred.

Question, how do you think they have worded the entry if our interpretation is correct?

They are referring to the goblin being launched not the model with wings.That model was to make the new doom diver more attaractive to modelers.

Well, if we're using Stone Thrower Rules, then you pick a specific area. Since it states "No Templates", I'm pretty sure that you can't hit two units.

And for your "The Goblin is used" point, you generate a point for a stone thrower, and the Doom Diver states we are using Stone Thrower Rules. The model is purely decorative.

The Doom Diver entry states

"No template is used with the Doom Diver"

He hits the unit then he causes D6 hits.

I agree with batmanuel , cryonicleech , and OP

especially agree on the bolt thrower cannon ball , stone thrower example.

The doomdiver is you pick a point on the battle field in range and los. Then roll the scatter dice as stonethrower rulls then the the doomdiver can roll a d3 or d6 (cant remember..) to ajust the point where he lands in anyway he wants.

That really doesn't address the issue here, orcplayer.

Had to pull out the O&G codex for this one, Im going to have to agree with the one hit only... It says dont use a template but it also doesnt say use the goblin. In the stone thrower rules the template is used do to shrapnel... I see no shrapnel comming from the goblin tis the reason you dont use the template(maybe a few limbs but i see no injuries here). This is why you cant hit multiple units... Its a single point. So agreed that the model is decorative.

nosferatu1001 wrote:What part of "If the Goblin hits an enemy model" do you think means you don't use the model?

Seriously, it's in the rules. The Goblin hits a model. Who is "The Goblin" in the sentence about "Goblin Doomdiver"? Let's think....:rolleyes:

Belligerent failure win!

Well, it does say to use the goblin...which isn't a template....

Way I interpret the Doom Diver is:

Whatever point the goblin hits (not template, point) is where the shot's resolved. If it hits a unit, that unit takes the hits. If it hits nothing and the D3 modifier doesn't work, or it just hits nothing in general, no dice.

The Goblin model with the wings is a hold over from a previous edition. It is not used anymore.

whitestagg wrote:The Goblin model with the wings is a hold over from a previous edition. It is not used anymore.

The previous edition used the model? I thought it was just decorative. Though, I really do like the model.

No, in the previous edition he could tool around a bit on the board moving in subsequent turns. He got 'simplified' just like squig bomb.

I cannot believe this has become so complicated. I'm an orc players here's how myself and 3 other orc players use the doom diver.

-we fire it like a stone thrower
-we pick 1 point, we do not even use the model, then we scatter like a stone thrower
-it drifts, hits a unit does d6 vs 1 units
-the model is for visual purposes, if you want to play the "it says goblin model" then that gobo model should be on a 20 mm base not the flying stand. Go ahead and try to hit 2 units with that when units usually are supposed to be an inch apart.

Erm, wrong: Only enemy units have to be 1" apart [from your friendly units], friendly units can be in base to base if you want.

still, on your gobo issue, feel free to stick him on a 20mm base. if at that point if you hit 2 of my units, i'd let you claim it.

No, you base all models on the bases they are supplied with. To do otherwise is breaking the rules.

This discussion is awesome, with the flying base and no minimum distance between friendly units you could hit 4+ units, depending on what you use. "So that is D6 hits to your Chaos Warriors, Marauders, dragon ogres and two units of spawn. Earned his points back!" hahaha