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In previous editions the base size rules were different. In this edition - page 7 of the rulebook - the base size of models is defined. Infantry models are put on either 20 mm, 25 mm, or 40 mm wide bases.

I'm not sure where the base size for a specific model is defined - why are orcs 25 mm and goblins 20? Page 269 says that roughly man sized models go on either 20 or 25 mm bases. To go on a 40 or 50 MM base you need to be ogre sized. THe goblin goes on either a 20 or 25 mm base, unless you can find a rule that says the goblin doom diver is a flyer, then you can make an argument that is goes on a flyer base.

THere is no definition as to which base size you use within your "band", it is entirely determined by the base the model comes with. You only have permission to build the model using the base supplied.

In this case the model comes with a flyer base, meaning you have to use that - you are not given permission to use another base size.

IMO the model is purely decorative, and has no game function. Therefore the flying base is irrelevant, as in the current rules the goblin from the doom diver is no longer a flying model, and never functions as a model with a statline/profile within the game.

Heck, even flying models aren’t supposed to be based on flying bases anymore under the 6th or 7th ed rules.

I guess theyre one of those "AB exceptions" that a certain useless author forgot to do anything about.....

Nosferatu1001 wrote:THere is no definition as to which base size you use within your "band", it is entirely determined by the base the model comes with. You only have permission to build the model using the base supplied.

Nos, I've posted this multiple times, now I've cited page numbers. There is a definition of the base size models should use.

Page 7 of the rulebook says that flyers are on 50mm Bases.

Page 269 says roughly man-sized models are on 20mm or 25mm bases.

So - the the 7th ed rules has clear rules for what size base a goblin should be on, 20mm or 25mm.

Not having the O&G book I don't know where the 20 mm goblin / 25 mm orc distinction is made, but it might be in there or it might have been missed. In that case I would agree that since orcs are sold with 25mm bases and goblins are sold with 20 mm bases you would use the base that the model comes with.

In the DD case, the model is sold with a flyer base but since it is not explicitly a flyer it can no longer use a flyer base. This - like I said before - is because in previous editions the DD had differant rules and that was when the model was originally packaged. Since the rules have changed but the packaging has not you - if you want to play RAW - must mount the DD on a 20 or 25 MM base.

They actually dont seem to ever give base sizes (e.g. WoC no base sizes for Throgg, Valkia etc - you have to infer them) in Armybooks - and the difference between 25mm Orcs and 20mm based Orcs is huge.

Seems odd that they would specify in the rulebook but still give a range for Man sized - they could just call Goblins "20mm Infantry" and it would help...

The lack of clear basing instructions is one of WH's more egregious failings.

I would say the magic system is a bigger failing.

A system which encourages either all out or a denial caddy isnt a good. Moderate should have a chance of working!

Well, that's a bigger design challenge. They did a radical redesign between 5th and 6th editions, and are still trying to get it right.

IMO the bases issue is more egregious, because it's something that matters in every single game, because it would be so easy to fix, and because the basing rules have been pretty close to the same since the game existed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just had a “make moderate magic work” rule occur to me.

What if they had a “marshalling the winds of magic” rule, in which (fluffwise) an army’s wizard could choose to focus the power of the WoM if he limited the total number of spells cast by his side?

The mechanical representation might be something like: At the start of a magic phase, the active player may choose (and declare aloud) to limit their spellcasting to one or two spells. If they declare “no more than two spells”, each of said two spells their army attempts to cast this turn will gain the benefits of Irresistible Force if the dice roll includes double sixes OR double fives. Note that double ones miscast as normal. If the player declares “I will only cast one spell this turn”, it will become Irresistible on double sixes, double fives, OR double fours! Again, double ones miscasting as normal. Once declared, the player may not attempt to cast any more spells beyond the number declared. They may still dispel remains in play spells at the end of the phase. Note that a miscast which ends the phase still ends the phase, and may prevent the casting of a declared second spell and/or dispelling remains in play spells at the end of the phase.

This rule would make armies with only one or two wizards have a better chance to get their one or two spells through each turn. And would give a tactical option to heavy magic armies to help get a critical spell through, if they were willing to sacrifice casting their usual bunch of spells.

Hmm, I quite like that Means you can take one caster, try to cast 1 spell with much improved odds of getting it through and still have some magic defence. Means level 1 caddies are less obvious as being able to throw 3 dice at one spell casting with IF on 4,5,6 is much better than trtying with 2 dice.

No doubt it wont happen as it will "introduce complexity", which seems to be the opposite of GW current stance....



Agreed that bases is an easy, obvious fix - for how it SHOULD be done see the Fan led Chaos Dwarves armybook - ok as some dont even have models OR are able to be bought as new they need it more, but this does have a base size by every single entry in the game - warmachines, single models, everything. No guessing!