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Hello Dakka!

I was wondering lately...almost every fluff I read describes marines as serious, religious and dedicated battle-monks. And that's what they are supposed to be, I guess, from an Imperium's point of view at least. Most of the novels I read also talk about marines never smiling and being those either-quiet-and-serious-or-screaming-and-cursing-in-a-serious-way angels of death. Hell, warhammer is about grimdark, I know that.

However, I'm wondering...does all this hypno-indoctrination and machine learning and drill and mind-scrubbing really erase so much of that person, that a marine was before he became a marine, that this marine lost human characteristics like (non-cynical grimdark) humour or (non-grimdark) malicious joy?

I'm not sure if I can express what I want to say here I guess my question is: Can you imagine marines pulling pranks on their battle-brothers? Or the crew of a predator exchanging cheering high-fives after taking down that enemy defiler? Or a marine poking his tongue out to a comrade after some pointless argument and both marines laughing heartily and walking off?

Is all this good stuff about the human nature erased on marines and only available for the Imperial Guard?

Would like to hear your opinions about this, or some passages in the fluff where marines aren't so ultimately grimdarkangelsofdeath.


(Only fluff where marines are joking and teasing each other I know is the Space Wolf novel series about Ragnar...and I guess the wolves differ from vanilla chapters anyway. )

Dark Angels kid around with each other, too, in a curt sort of way. (At least in "Fallen Angels.") I can't imagine SM being cutesy (sticking his tongue out at another marine . . .) but they are definitely human. We're not meant to sympathize with them as much as guards, however, because they are not merely human. The great draw of the guards is that these are just regular people that somehow have to fight Chaos Marines, Necron Lords, and Hive Tyrants for a living. But we're supposed to be in awe of the SM. Can you imagine reading a SM novel where the company takes a week off to go to the beach? Would you even want to read something like that?

Manchu wrote:...Can you imagine reading a SM novel where the company takes a week off to go to the beach? Would you even want to read something like that?

Na, of course not... But it would be very entertaining to read about some SM chapter getting absolutely hammered on some feast day, and then arrising the next day for suicidal combat training - With an extreme hang-over. I think that'd be something everyone could relate to in some way. (Except for youngbloods, of course. And remember: There's nothing big or clever about consuming alcohol. Especially when you're the only thing that stands between humanity and it's damnation.)

I'm not sure that they can get drunk. If so, then probably not hungover.

I think they're hungover from the moment they become space marines, and that's why they are so disciplined. WHen will it end???

The Space Wolves are known for gettilng drunk on their big feasts, they use some kind of root that by-passes their augmented liver or something like that. Black Templars are having some kind of parties sometimes, too, as far as I know. So, there are some little cases of marines having "fun", you could say, although not very prominent. And there's next to nothing in the nilla codex about fun. However, they talk about landspeeder pilots being more daring and audacious than their footsloggin brethren...I could imagine that.

"Good Shot, Alpha One. Return to base immediately. "
"Hold on command, got hostile tanks in that canyon, right in my sights. Just give me a second."
"Alpha One, you got a clear order, retreat now."
"Repeat, command, can't hear you clearly!" *gunfire, wailing engines* "YES! TAKE THAT IN THE NAME OF THE EMPEROR, HERETIC!"
"Alpha One..."
"Uhm, yes command. Emperor forgive me. Returning to base."

I mean, that would at least be an exception from all that monk-style srs bsns.

Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. Space Marines need not to fear such things.

@Witzkats, re: BT--are you talking about their tournaments?

I don't own their codex, I just heard or read that there are some kind of festivities either before or after battle, which is at least somehow a human trait - partying after victory over the enemy, I guess.

Witzkatz wrote:...However, they talk about landspeeder pilots being more daring and audacious than their footsloggin brethren...

...Or getting violently over-competetive with other Landspeeder crews.

"Strike one for ALPHA, over."

"That wasn't your kill, ALPHA."

"Yes it was."

"But you guys don't even have a Multi-Melta."

"Could have."

"It is ON!"

I'd wager it's more like some sort of solemn procession of relics than a party. Will look it up.

Manchu, I guess you're right that Space Marines are supposed the awe-inspiring heroes to look up to. However, I guess I'm getting a bit bored with that theme on my marines at the moment - this probably calls for a guard army as second... But 'tis so expensive...

Well, if you want a sort of ironic gallows humor theme then there is no better army to go with than the Guard. While making your decision, go ahead and read the Ciaphas Cain novels.

Space MArines are eunuchs that is why they are angry all the time.

Aye, even though I am dealing with the Astartes, I still prefer to read the Imperial Guard BL novels. Also, you'll note, I prefer to have an Imperial Guard description thingy. Indeed, the IG are much more easier to relate to, being human and all that. However, everyone needs Space Marines sometimes, with their (almost) pure spirituality.

What do you mean by pure spirituality?

The fact that they're (almost) absolutely loyal in mind and spirit/religion to the Emperor. Common doubts are pushed aside, they're less vulnerable to deception than an Imparial Guardsman is. Strong beliefs; (almost) no flaws in their thoughts. Very plain in that respect; focused. But this is what makes them who they are, the reason why they're so feared and respected as individuals.

I say "almost" because there's so many loopholes about what I've just said. (E.G. The Horus Heresy, The Badab War.) I'm just generalising. The Ultramarines probably fit this description best.

Oh, now that I understand I completely agree. (lol)

Not all space marines are emotionless killing machines, think
Why would the salamanders chapter have saved countless civilians in the armageddon wars?
Why would SW refuse the codex astartes?
Why would the astral nights of sacrificed themselves to destroy the world engine?
They all obviosly have diffrent personalitys

My DIY chapter are heroes to an entire planet which they saved from exterminatus by destroying an entire necron catacomb very different to what the black templars would have done (I may be posting a full chapter history soon)

I seem to remember reading in Legion how one of their human operatives was really creeped out, because the Alpha Legionnaires didnt display any cameraderie (dreadful spelling, ifaith), or the behaviours he associated with imperial guardsman & other humans.

Space Marines are still human inside, it's just that they've been genetically enhanced. They still feel pain and sorrow for some of the things that they do.
MC