Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
In the first of a series of six articles on the Government Takeover of Healthcare Chuck Norris (Who endorsed Obama in the elections BTW) reveals and opines on information contained in the House bill (111HR3200IH).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/08/11 19:32:15
Your side is always the "will of the people" the other side is always fundamentalist, extremist, hatemongers, racists, anti- semitic nazies with questionable education and more questionable hygiene. American politics 101.
-SGT Scruffy
~10,000 pts (Retired)
Protectorate of Menoth 75pts (and Growing)
Didn't he say there were thousands of militia people in cells here and we were going to secede? Kinda missed the tank division sitting directly in the middle of Texas didn't he?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
After it was down to Obama and McCain who did he fall in behind again? Oh yeah... my statement stands.
Your side is always the "will of the people" the other side is always fundamentalist, extremist, hatemongers, racists, anti- semitic nazies with questionable education and more questionable hygiene. American politics 101.
-SGT Scruffy
~10,000 pts (Retired)
Protectorate of Menoth 75pts (and Growing)
There is no evolution, just species that Chuck Norris allows to live.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Tyras wrote:After it was down to Obama and McCain who did he fall in behind again? Oh yeah... my statement stands.
So you're shocked that the a guy who was a strident supporter of Huckabee (one of the more Conservative candidates) would break from his support for a liberal President when considering a liberal issue?
Also, are you sure that you're linking to the same draft legislation that Norris is referencing? He describes the document as over 1,000 pages, and that PDF is only 850.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/11 19:20:05
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
The bill says that the government agents, "well-trained and competent staff," would "provide parents with knowledge of age-appropriate child development in cognitive, language, social, emotional, and motor domains ... modeling, consulting, and coaching on parenting practices," and "skills to interact with their child to enhance age-appropriate development."
How horrific, they might maybe stop people from mistreating their kids and try to make sure that they are fed right so they don't grow up to be obese and etc etc.
I like the way it then turns into a rant over how "THE EVIL GOVERNMENT" might even let people know that the legally available abortion is an option. How dare they inform people of their rights!
Are we to assume the state's mediators would understand every parent's social or religious core values on parenting?
Do they at the moment, when they can already step in and remove kids from abusive parents and put them into care ? Or would this program largely be a continuation of what largely already happens.
Are the republicans in the USA really so demoralised that they are elying upon radio and tv hosts and washed up actors to do their "thinking*" for them still ?
* Term may not conform to standard understanding of the term.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Yeah, if the government agents came in against your will to try and raise your kids that would be bad, but they're not coming in against your will.
There's nothing stopping you from opposing them once they actually start treading on your rights, so why get into a fit when they're offering you a service that you don't have to accept?
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
Are conservative demoralised so bad that celebs have to think for us? No, I thought it was funny actually. And since when do liberals get to criticize people for citing a celeb? How often do libs trott out some celeb from their bastion of Hollywood to act as a mouthpiece for their cause du jour?
The surprise expressed in the page is there for a number of reasons. The dems are touting this as health insurance reform, but how is this piece of the legislation related to health insurance? This paticular piece of the legislation opens the door wider for the government to impose their dictates on individual freedom in how a parent should raise their children. Example: A teacher after having a class explaining the topic of abortion, or any other hot social topic for that matter, finds that a child's parents have taught their kid concepts that don't mesh up with the social norms layed out in the government's view, so the government needs to look into how that child is being raised.
There are already agencies and procedures in place to investigate child abuse and or neglect. This legislation allows for the government to force their way into every aspect of raising one's child. Who are they to dictate that? If a child is not being harmed, who are they to decide what values "social and emotional" should be espoused? It's uneeded given that there are already detection and protection programs in place for abused or neglected children.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/08/11 19:56:18
Your side is always the "will of the people" the other side is always fundamentalist, extremist, hatemongers, racists, anti- semitic nazies with questionable education and more questionable hygiene. American politics 101.
-SGT Scruffy
~10,000 pts (Retired)
Protectorate of Menoth 75pts (and Growing)
but how is this piece of the legislation related to health insurance?
How is this related to health care you mean, which is a more pertinent and relevant question.
All the scaremongering that you attempt to raise is stuff that the Govt., that homogenous mass of godless heathens who all, of course, think exactly the same, can and already does.
If a child is not being harmed
Indeed, which is why what this does is let you find out if the child is being harmed or not. Prevention being better than repairing.
How often do libs trott out some celeb from their bastion of Hollywood to act as a mouthpiece for their cause du jour?
Frequently. It's just that tends to happen in conjunction with the actual politicians saying "stuff" as well, not a deafening silence as is the case with the republicans at the moment.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Tyras wrote:
The dems are touting this as health insurance reform, but how is this piece of the legislation related to health insurance?
Since when has this bill been described exclusively as insurance reform? I've heard it referred to as "the healthcare bill", or healthcare reform; something which is inclusive of health insurance. But I've never heard it described as insurance reform alone.
Tyras wrote:
This paticular piece of the legislation opens the door wider for the government to impose their dictates on individual freedom in how a parent should raise their children. Example: A teacher after having a class explaining the topic of abortion, or any other hot social topic for that matter, finds that a child's parents have taught their kid concepts that don't mesh up with the social norms layed out in the government's view, so the government needs to look into how that child is being raised.
Where are you reading this? It isn't in the text of the legislation at all. In fact, what you're describing can happen now, with even less justification than "the kids are being raised poorly".
Tyras wrote:
This legislation allows for the government to force their way into every aspect of raising one's child.
No it doesn't. Nowhere in the legislation is the concept of obligatory compliance mentioned.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/11 21:23:46
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Tyras wrote:
The dems are touting this as health insurance reform, but how is this piece of the legislation related to health insurance?
Since when has this bill been described exclusively as insurance reform? I've heard it referred to as "the healthcare bill", or healthcare reform; something which is inclusive of health insurance. But I've never heard it described as insurance reform alone.
Actually as of at least the last week, it has been. This occurred the same time they rolled out the new "insurance companies are evil! EEEEEVVVVIIIILLLL!!!!!" talking points.
Its a way of back pedalling. if some minor changes are made -portability; universal requirement; etc. then they can claim victory and call it a day.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
reds8n wrote: How horrific, they might maybe stop people from mistreating their kids and try to make sure that they are fed right so they don't grow up to be obese and etc etc.
It was a good thing the Germans had Hitler to show them the proper way to raise their children. Nothing like taking a kid from their parents for fresh air, sunshine, and a brown shirt. Government knows best!
All starting out as purely "voluntary" of course.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/08/11 21:37:59
And there's a difference bewteen telling people what they're doing wrong -- feeding their kids on a constant diet of junk food for example, or letting rats nibble off their toes most notably of late-- and taking the children away for re education.
fething Govt., come in, violating the rights of parents to let their children from dying from err.. hang on...
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Frazzled wrote:
Actually as of at least the last week, it has been. This occurred the same time they rolled out the new "insurance companies are evil! EEEEEVVVVIIIILLLL!!!!!" talking points.
Its a way of back pedalling. if some minor changes are made -portability; universal requirement; etc. then they can claim victory and call it a day.
Apparently I've been spending too much time reading philosophy, and not enough watching CNN.
Relapse wrote:
It was a good thing the Germans had Hitler to show them the proper way to raise their children. Nothing like taking a kid from their parents for fresh air, sunshine, and a brown shirt. Government knows best!
All starting out as purely "voluntary" of course.
Uh, what? Do you actually know anything about the Brown Shirts, or did you just feel like invoking Godwin's Law right off the bat?
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
reds8n wrote: You're several pages too early for that.
And there's a difference bewteen telling people what they're doing wrong -- feeding their kids on a constant diet of junk food for example, or letting rats nibble off their toes most notably of late-- and taking the children away for re education.
fething Govt., come in, violating the rights of parents to let their children from dying from err.. hang on...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/father-found-guilty-after-praying-while-daughter-died-1766348.html wrote:Prosecutors argued he should have rushed the girl to a hospital because she could not walk, talk, eat or drink. Instead, Madeline died on the floor of the family's rural home as people surrounded her and prayed. Someone called an ambulance when she stopped breathing.
Relapse wrote:No one got hurt with Hitler's method of making sure children were well cared for, eh?
Wow... I mean really though. How can you even compare the U.S. with Nazi Germany... what a shmooze.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/11 21:46:50
Relapse wrote:No one got hurt with Hitler's method of making sure children were well cared for, eh?
They had an army as well, quick, best disband yours before THEY COME TO GET YOU 1111
To clarify then : So Obama is now not only a Kenyan Muslim communist but he's also a nazi as well ? Cannot deny he's got a work ethic at least.
... which would make him protestant.. so.. wait.. hang on...
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Uh, what? Do you actually know anything about the Brown Shirts, or did you just feel like invoking Godwin's Law right off the bat?
Actually, having friends whose parents fought for Hitler in WW2 gives me a better insight than the average guy on the street.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wrexasaur wrote:
Wow... I mean really though. How can you even compare the U.S. with Nazi Germany... what a shmooze.
By that statement it's likely you don't have any kids. As a parent, I think anyone from the government trying to tell me how to raise my children offensive if it's done the way it reads in that bill.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/11 21:59:32
Relapse wrote:
Actually, having friends whose parents fought for Hitler in WW2 gives me a better insight than the average guy on the street.
..... is this some form of satire I was hitherto unaware of ?
..please ?
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Relapse wrote:By that statement it's likely you don't have any kids. As a parent, I think anyone from the government trying to tell me how to raise my children offensive if it's done the way it reads in that bill.
You should re-read it then take a good hard look at the country you so liberally (erm... conservatively actually) berate with opinions akin to that of cable news.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/11 22:02:37
On this particular point, the argument is more about what could happen. The difficulty is that nothing is set in stone. No bill has been close to being passed. The document at hand is 1,000 and vague on many many different areas that could be taken to extreme immediately or over. Remember, we've been through 8 months of more than $1.5BN in cash flow allocations that most Congress members never read and are now biting us on the keister. The ram through is not going to to occur this time.
Wrexy, respectfully once you have kids your views change on a lot of things, and the thought of others telling you what to do is a major deal. It boils down to "government do gooder usually don't have a clue."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/11 22:06:24
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
reds8n wrote: Are the republicans in the USA really so demoralised that they are elying upon radio and tv hosts and washed up actors to do their "thinking*" for them still ?
It's just fearmongering politics as usual. Both sides do it. And it usually tramples over any real dialogue and constructive debate on a given issue.
The nutjob reactionaries are out in force, don't get me wrong. The "black helicopter" and "one world government" types from the Clinton years mostly got quiet during Bush's tenure except for the occasional border patrol "militia", so everyone forgot about them. But they're still out there.
But this is more about the loony fringe piggybacking onto a major effort by the congressional GOP to remain relevant. The actual issue of health care is becoming secondary, sadly.
Relapse wrote:
Actually, having friends whose parents fought for Hitler in WW2 gives me a better insight than the average guy on the street.
..... is this some form of satire I was hitherto unaware of ?
..please ?
My dad read the comic book in which Captain America and Bucky landed a haymaker on Hitler's jaw, screaming "Take that, Ratzi!" So I've always thought of him as "in the know."
~10,000 pts (Retired)
Protectorate of Menoth 75pts (and Growing) 
.
