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I am officially sick to bloody death of the UK.

Government is useless, including the Shadow Cabinet (who rather than you know, offer alternatives, have sat around jeering failures)
The Media is rapidly becoming an extremely dangerous political force in it's own right (MP's expenses blown out of all proportion, with surprise surprise Labour being picked on the most, when the worst abuses came from the Conservative Party. Could you guess it was a True Blue Newspaper (The Torygraph) that paid for a stolen CD of sensitive information?

Prison service is also seemingly a joke. Extremely vile people allowed to live in relative comfort until they pop their clogs.

Police's hands are tied when it comes to clamping down on Teenage Tearaways and other assosciated dregs of soceity.

And what do we do? What is the one thing that has pushed me over the edge? We complain, we bitch, we criticise. Then we turn round, drop Trousers, grasp the ankles and declare 'Please Sir, can I have another?'

The Government, Councils, Police etc are here to serve us. NOT the other way around. What is the point of living in a democracy if you never speak up loud enough to be heard.

Down with Westminster. Death to the Chavs. Burn down Fleet Street*. Give the Police their teeth back. Do it, and ffs, do it NOW.

We as a populace have the right to cast down our Government. We are actually allowed to do it. Stop tutting, start touting. Don't agree with the War in Iraq? Then demand the troops be brought home, and put into a place a Government with actual balls. Tired of hearing lots of stuff about Europe (like the black and white drivel of Europe GOOD / Europe BAD) and desperate for someone to stop treating their electorate like children and just fething explain it to you?

*I am aware the last Newspaper left Fleet Street some time ago. This is used purely as a catch all monicker.

The last time we rebelled against Britain it went pretty well. Have you considered attacking people on Christmas?

Good idea.

But what would you replace the current government with? The apple is rotten to the core, skimming off the surface wouldn't correct the underlying problem.

(MDG, you're bloody eloquent.)

sA

I'd prefer to be sneaky and just poison a massive batch of Bernard Matthews Turkey Twizzlers. Apparent the Chavscum are very fond of mechanically recovered gak in spring shapes with a Meat Content roughly less than your average Lettuce. BOOM. Mass batch poison (I think Arsenic. Easily mass produced) and of societies main problem goes away. With the added bonus anyone left alive will be able to gain employment as an undertaker in the immediate aftermath.

Sounds like fun.

I always like concepting plans for Social Terrorism, but it sounds good in my head, then on paper I just realise I'm a loony.

Chain lynchings of all Caravan Owners?

sA

smiling Assassin wrote:Good idea.

But what would you replace the current government with? The apple is rotten to the core, skimming off the surface wouldn't correct the underlying problem.

(MDG, you're bloody eloquent.)

sA

Simple enough. We break down the Government as is, and elect a new one using Proportional Representation. With that done, we the people then vote once more for the Cabinet to be formed. Simply utterly remove the pointless Party System, which generally ends up with the winner appointing a cabinet of his closest bum chums and yes-men.

For example, right now perhaps a more conservative chancellor would be a good idea (note the small c denoting a style rather than party of politics) yet we still need liberal/socialists in government to make sure as many people as possible are looked after (traditionally, service cuts affect the poorest, making their lives yet worse).

They are not allowed to simply quit their posts. If they get caught up in a scandal, a vote is held (piece of piss with todays technology. Website built to take the necessary strain. Stay/Go option, with a further option for who should replace) and they either stay or are replaced.

This is the 21st Century. Time we woke up and embraced it. People are aware it's Britains tradition of early adoption that got us where we once were yes?

Step one.) Stock up with as many packaged foods as possible. Remember to get water, and have a planned exit to the country side, preferably to a group of friends and family.

Step two.) Stop complaining and stop working, just sit in front of the parliament (or other more impressionable government dwelling, sure the castle place works fine too ) drinking beer and talking about all the stuff wrong with the country.

Step three.) Make sure to remember that the government simply doesn't have the option to outlast the whole country on strike, just not possible.

Step four.) Use your spare time to address all the issues you see in your country, and make sure you have solar panels somewhere for your laptops. Phones are gone asap, do not use them, use the interwebz, skype will do just fine.

Step five.) Compile the information into a giant PDF file and review it along with an appointed committee from the government (England appoints this committee as they see fit.)

Step six.) After a week or so of the country being on strike, changes will occur, and certain action may be needed. These actions are your only route to success and denying the fact of a need for an alternate "sub-government" will be key to the success of your intended actions. No coups here, remember that very intensely.

No need to stock up. Make a velvet revolution of sorts.

The aim is less about overthrowing the Government for a new style (communist style and French Revolution) as deconstructing an old and incredibly outdated method of Government in favour of something far more modern and fluid. Right now, our Democracy like many others is more 'pick your dictator'

The current/incumbent Government is left in power for the short term, until the transition is under way when a new election in the style decided upon is held. Minmal disruption is suffered, and we emerge all the better for it.

I don't know enough about what's going on over there to offer an opinion. I just hope things work out for ya. We're seeing alot of that crap over here in the US as well.

The U.S. is a really in a complicated situation right now, and I believe the closest we could get to actual action throughout the nation relies on states like California, Texas, and New York standing up and just promptly saying change is needed and we are willing to take the action.

Just my two cents though really, it isn't the 60's anymore, much different set of fangs on this beasty.

Indeed. But who knows? If one Western Democracy undergoes a voter led refreshment, the populaces of other Western Democracies might start clamouring for the same. Especially (only?) if it works!

We will demand the best system as it emerges, of that there is no doubt for the majority of people which mega-phones and attitudes in the U.S. .

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Simple enough. We break down the Government as is, and elect a new one using Proportional Representation. With that done, we the people then vote once more for the Cabinet to be formed. Simply utterly remove the pointless Party System, which generally ends up with the winner appointing a cabinet of his closest bum chums and yes-men.

This would be the same system that we use for European elevtions that led to the election of the BNP people that many here, not naming any names, were ( and rightly so) so fethed off with would it ?

You don't think it might be better if the actual cabinet was staffed with people who might get along and have broadly similar aims perhaps ?

Seeing as any election like you're describing would presumably, going by the normal polls in the UK give us a cabinet consisting of :

David Beckham.
The Simpsons.
Megan Fox.
That bit in "Only Fools and Horses" where DEl boy goes to lean on the bar but falls over instead.
Ricky Gervais.
Manchester United/ Eric Cantona
and either Peter Andre or Jordan.

For example, right now perhaps a more conservative chancellor would be a good idea (note the small c denoting a style rather than party of politics) yet we still need liberal/socialists in government to make sure as many people as possible are looked after (traditionally, service cuts affect the poorest, making their lives yet worse).

They are not allowed to simply quit their posts. If they get caught up in a scandal, a vote is held (piece of piss with todays technology. Website built to take the necessary strain. Stay/Go option, with a further option for who should replace) and they either stay or are replaced.

This is the 21st Century. Time we woke up and embraced it. People are aware it's Britains tradition of early adoption that got us where we once were yes?

I would suggest it is hard to both cut spending and somehow not have these cuts affect people in some way or other. Or at least any way that is "fair".

You really think that we're ready for full electronic elections free of any bias or corruption ? Or at least at the same level we have with the current system anyway.

Trouble is MDG, 70% of the population are idiots and can't think for themselves, which is why the papers have so much sway in public opinion. They feed them with simple to understand sound bites, that don't tax the brain, and off they go.

I mean look at the whole expenses issue, all of those buggers in power just kept repeating that it was within the rules and that they would fix it for the future. Nobody in the media actually seemed able to pin one of those slippery sods down and point out that the only reason it was changing was because they were found out. At no time was there any indication that they would of changed it otherwise, it was only due to being found out that decided to do something otherwise it would of stayed the same.

As to free thinking, don't get me started. Lets take Euorpe for example. I have no idea whether it's good or bad for us. why? Well because there are two sides to the argument that's why. You can find stats / opinions, for & against. How do you know what's right? If buisness leaders can't agree, how on earth do the rest of us stand a chance? In the end you have look at the facts and base your choice on that... which is what 70% of the population don't do, they just follow the opinion of their favourite rag

What would be a good start would be to make the papers actually prove their stories, back them up with hard evidence.

Proportional Representation..? Nice idea in principal, but if I make the effert to vote for someone I want that vote to count. Not have someone win, who didn't have enough votes, but needs to be represented, so gets the job.

The really crazy / stupid thing about all of it is that most people in the UK want politics to be boring so that they can get on with their day to day lives. There should be no reason why the core duties of any party in power aren't different to the next party. NHS, costs x amount of billions to run, local government again x amount of billions to run, schools, the same as with the armed forces etc. There is no real reason why this should be a problem, but they all manage to make it a problem, just to score points.

I don't mind paying extra taxes to support certain things, but most of us know that it gets moved into other areas. Here's an idea. why not make that money that is collected traceable? As a member of the public I can at any time run an audit and see that it paid for extra teachers, docters, nurses, policeman. Might win some trust back.

I'm in.

The history of the West shows that when things really start to suck ass, we have to start kicking it. I fled Canuckistan because it sucked too much for my liking. Everyone was a Tim Horton's coffee drinking selfish drone incapable of using their cognitive abilities to see how f'ed up society was becoming. It sounds like others have the same perception in their respective countries. YOU ARE RIGHT!

This is the autumn of the age, soon it will be full blown winter. But then it is spring, the new dawn. Don't let them push you around. Push back. Make it happen.

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”

I totally agree with you, MDG.

The problem is that most people in Britain don't care or understand about what's going on. I think if there was a revolution it would be so half-arsed the police would just lock them all up.

Wrexasaur wrote:Step one.) Stock up with as many packaged foods as possible. Remember to get water, and have a planned exit to the country side, preferably to a group of friends and family.

Step two.) Stop complaining and stop working, just sit in front of the parliament (or other more impressionable government dwelling, sure the castle place works fine too ) drinking beer and talking about all the stuff wrong with the country.

Step three.) Make sure to remember that the government simply doesn't have the option to outlast the whole country on strike, just not possible.

Step four.) Use your spare time to address all the issues you see in your country, and make sure you have solar panels somewhere for your laptops. Phones are gone asap, do not use them, use the interwebz, skype will do just fine.

Step five.) Compile the information into a giant PDF file and review it along with an appointed committee from the government (England appoints this committee as they see fit.)

Step six.) After a week or so of the country being on strike, changes will occur, and certain action may be needed. These actions are your only route to success and denying the fact of a need for an alternate "sub-government" will be key to the success of your intended actions. No coups here, remember that very intensely.

You got this wrong. Step one is "Keep your guns.". Oh, wait......

but your government has guns... and you dont...

I can make a pretty mean sharpened stick.

And they'll never see me coming with my metal gear solid cardboard box.

The good ole US of A is on its last legs. What will come next, we have no idea but it will probably be the first of many dominoes to fall toward the edge of the abyss.

First Past the Post is the home of the wasted vote. I cast my vote, as do 100,000 other people. 499,999 of us vote for A. 500,001 vote for B.

B wins the entire vote. This to me is not satisfactory.

With proportional representation, no vote is ever wasted. Even those who are in the minority still have a proportioned voice in Government.

Think about the things that the Right Wing Gutter Press demand of Government. No more immigration, cheaper taxes etc. With a suitable Government shake up, we the people would be able to have our say on it. If a vote said 'yes, no more immigration and we're pulling out of Europe' then so be it. The will of the people has been done, for good or ill.

I mean, I have never really questioned the status quo of the Party System before, and now I have, I am seeing extremely large flaws in it.

And Spending Cuts will be inevitable. But where they are made needs to be a bipartisan decision, so again FPTP is flawed here.

If you guys are going to start a revolution try forming an angry mob.

Anger leads to cock ups. And generally the angriest form the next Government, and turn out to be far worse.

My idea is more about forcing greater control on Parliament from the electorate. Right now we just vote for who we are told we can vote for, and have to suck it up for 5 years, unless they quit or die. Yay? Not good enough. Not even close to be satiscraptory.

Another idea would be to introduce a US style term limit on Prime Ministers.

And yes, Democracy is indeed the least crap form of Government, but it can still be improved somewhat. Easily. As I said, in the digital age there is absolutely no excuse for the piss poor level of Electorate Input that we currently suffer from. Referendums need cost little money. This is taking power away from Parliament on many important issues. It will take some time, sure, but with this we can reengaged the Populace with Politics.

Various Governments of the UK have all worked toward one goal with a depressing level of success. Namely? Total voter apathy. Well feth them. feth them right in the ear. This is our country. We will have our say.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:First Past the Post is the home of the wasted vote. I cast my vote, as do 100,000 other people. 499,999 of us vote for A. 500,001 vote for B.

B wins the entire vote. This to me is not satisfactory.

With proportional representation, no vote is ever wasted. Even those who are in the minority still have a proportioned voice in Government.

You're talking about two different things. First past the post is just a means of counting votes, whoever gets the most wins the seat. The most common alternative is preferential voting, where you rank candidates from most preferred to least preferred. If your preferred candidate is the least popular your vote is allocated to your next favourite, and so on down the list.

The other issue is electorate based voting, where a geographic region is assigned one seat in government and whoever wins the vote (via first past the post or preferential) takes a place in parliament. The most common alternative to this is proportional representation, where there are no geographic seats, just a large pool of allocated out to the parties proportionately.

The above can be mixed and matched. The UK lower house has electorate based first past the post, while in Australia the lower house has electorates decided by preferential voting.

Think about the things that the Right Wing Gutter Press demand of Government. No more immigration, cheaper taxes etc. With a suitable Government shake up, we the people would be able to have our say on it. If a vote said 'yes, no more immigration and we're pulling out of Europe' then so be it. The will of the people has been done, for good or ill.

I mean, I have never really questioned the status quo of the Party System before, and now I have, I am seeing extremely large flaws in it.

There are strengths and weaknesses to strong and weak party structures, with strong party control increasing party accountability but limiting the diversity of contributions. Neither system progresses political issues any faster like you claimed above.

Law only works for as long as the majority of people believe that it does.

If they continue to annoy people, it is only a matter of time before enough people get angry enough for law an order to break down and things to get nasty.

I think a full blown revolution may well be the only way to fundamentally change the system we currently have. Too many people have too much invested in the status quo for them to change it of their own will.

No but direct voter consultation, via online referendums does.

We have State sponsored Television here in the UK, so the facts can be presented in debates and other informative programmes. You're never going to get truly unbiased debate of course, but a live debate about the subject is better than the cretins just reading some gobshite in the paper (who are more worried about their interests than anything else) I'm sure you will agree.

Party Politics is an outmoded method, and there is little reason to continue with it.

I don't really want to turn to the more American system where it seems that every public official spends thousands (if not millions) of pounds and weeks and months (when they should be working damn it!) on getting "elected" to their office.

The election adverts are annoying enough without having every individual candidate for every individual position pimping themsleves every few years.

You can either try and make changes by trial and error, and good ole' fashioned tenaciousness.

You could also just wait for things to get so bad that you cannot change them at all.

Unfortunatley the U.S. has very little in terms of options in this respect, and their would need to be external inspiration to bring on an effective and peaceful protest.

As it stands now, any revolutions in the U.S. would end up being class wars, and the poor would win in the end. Sure the rich can decide to blast us all to kingdom come, but at some point they are going to remember that they are only rich because our system allows them to be.

Sure you can be rich anywhere in the world, but why not be rich in the U.S. where you can be part of the club too?