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While lining up some IG i receive , and attempting to have fun in guessing how the previous owner gears /
compose the army , i have been wondering...

How effective are Veteran guards? compared to Platoon with maxed out heavy weapon teams?

How effective are special weapon squads? should i take them or stick with vets?

How do people gear up their platoon command squad , or Armie's HQ command squad?

o_o.... i dunno

I've played Guard since 3E, so I've got a little perspective to share. IG became my primary army for 4E/5E, before the current Codex. Lately, I've gone back to playing Eldar, so I don't have a lot of playtime under the new Codex.

That said...

When you ask about maxxed out Heavy squads and Special Squads and Command Squads, it seems like you're setting up for ground-pounding stand-and-deliver IG. Nothing wrong with that - I played this kind of thing in 3E, which was all about shooting, and did OK, but I will warn you that it's kind of boring.

5E is about Objectives and mobility, with good Transports, which means you're going to want something else. Being able to move (if you want to) adds a tactical depth and is a lot more fun.

For mobility, IG have 3 basic options to work with:
- Mech Chimera & Valks
- Tank-based Armored Company
- Outflankers
While they're all somewhat overpriced, I'd suggest that you consider combining all of them, while minimizing the static elements which will be left behind or wiped out by enemy Reserves.

The Chimera and Valkyrie aren't horrible - they're just not as good as what the SM get. The Turret gun doesn't matter so much (trade S6 vs AP4), but always take the Chimera hull Heavy Flamer for enemy who get close. The Valk & Vendetta are decent for the points, but the "good" configs will be 130 pts, as the Valk needs to be set up as anti-infantry.

Tanks don't Score, but they do Contest. I like to take Demolishers on a priority basis - AV14/13/11 is a fairly tough nut to crack, and S10 AP2 Ordnance is good against anything. The new Plasma Tank is also good, but it wants to stay still, and is a tad expensive. The regular Russ beats the Basilik because you can move it out of your DZ if you have to. Except for the Plasma tank, Hull HBs & no Sponsons to keep things as cheap as possible, because they don't help with Scoring at all.

Outflankers mean you take some flavor of Al Rahem. He can use Special Weapons because you're going to Outflank with him - I'd suggest Demo Charges, as the Command can take Meltas.

The rest is boring, basic static shooting. I'd take some Autocannons / MLs / HBs / Mortars for extra anti-infantry, but I wouldn't take more than 2 or 3 Heavy Squads.

Veterans are kinda pricey, especially if you upgrade them. I'd start with a Mech Chimera Platoon along with Al Rahem, and just see where that goes before spending points on Veterans.

For more advice, check the Dakka Articles for the IG review by category.

I would say that the question of Veterans Vs. Platoons depends on what kind of army you are running. If you are going to be running an entirely mechanized army, than Veterans are the way to go, as they provide Higher BS, and more Special Weapons, which is valuable since due to the nature of transporting everything, you need to make all your shots count, due to the fact that you probably won't have more than 5 or so squads.

If you are going to be going on foot, than platoons are the way to go, as the ablative wounds and heavy weapons give you more long ranged firepower, whilst not having it all condensed into vulnerable Vet squads.

Though it does not have to be an either or deal, I have seen many lists which run a platoon firebase, usually with Autocannons, and then a few squads of Veterans with Meltas in Chimeras for mobile tank hunting.

In the end, as long as you are tailoring the troop choices to fit what you need them to do, you can't really go wrong. Unless you field Penal Legions.

As far as Company Command Squads, or Platoon Command Squad weapons loadouts, it all depends again on what you are doing. The CCS has BS4 so giving them weapons that make use of it is the way to go. If they are sitting back issuing orders to a Platoon running Plasmaguns or a heavy weapon would be suitable, though they make great tank hunters with 4 meltaguns in a chimera, and end up being 10 points cheaper than a Vet squad, and get an extra special weapon. Platoon command squads have BS3, so just outfit them the way you would a standard Infantry squad, though they do make use of fielding a HF and 3 flamers better than any other squad, as they don't have to waste their BS4 to do it, and as such do it cheaper than anyone else.

Special weapon squads are really outclassed by Veterans, especially when you consider that they can not take transports. You could use them as a unit with all flamers to hide behind your lines and when a squad gets assault and dies, to attempt to step up and flame whatever is in your face, or take a few Demolition Charges and stick them in a Valkyrie or borrow another squads Chimera. I would not give them Meltas or Plasmas as it would be a waste of their expensive special weapons on depressing BS3.

Heavy weapon squads, I feel, should be fielding Autocannons to take care of light armour, since Lascannons are outclassed by Meltas, and anti infantry could be better served with Valkyries, Hellhounds, or Heavy Support, and at the same cost as a Heavy Bolter, Autocannons aren't too much worse if you have to fire at foot targets.

One order over 30 infantry which effects 3 heavy weapons and another 3 special weapons is generally well worth it.

Likewise, 30+ infantry that are stubborn with a re-rolable LD9 at an extra cost of 35pts (or 1.17pt/model) or simply re-rollable LD8 for 15pts is just barginous and quite dangerous given the right circumstances.

It all depends on if you want autominous Veteran units (also if you want mechenised veteran units) OR if you want to have a supporting synergistic Infantry core.

So it all boils down to how you want to use your Company command squad. Do you either want one stationary BS4 lascannon platform to support infantry or a quadruple meltagun platform (in some form of vehicle) to take one everything itself.

I agree with the previous post with regards to packing out your force with melta guns! Company commander can issue the Bring it Down order which will twin link weapons on the ordered squad... he can order his own squad so twin linked melta guns is pretty effective. Packed into a chimera to get moving!

Never pay for a special weapons squad! Always pay for the Platoon command, kit it out with the melta guns, sniper rifles, flamers or whatever. You squad is a man light on the special weapon squad but you get the three platoon command squad orders to issue!

geordie09 wrote:Never pay for a special weapons squad! Always pay for the Platoon command,

Where are the Demo Charge options on the Platoon Command?

SWS is for fielding triple S8 AP2 Demolitions Charge Ordnance. It's a Scoring unit that hits like hell when it outflanks, then isn't worth the enemy's time to actually deal with.

Ya I have played Guard in 4E and 5E now so I will drop in alittle. I started my vet army last E when I couldn't win a game with them to save my life but I digress. Vets this edition are just so good its hard to think not playing them for me haha rly 3 special weapons is just hainuss for the cost.

Next I love platoons to I usually only field one as supporting fire but the are head to toe 20x better than last edition.

What I think I am getting at is there are all soooo much better than last ed and I believe running massed IG or mass ig vets are both goo.d But I believe its the mixed army of them run right that is really balanced. (If your looking for a vote though mine goes to vets yay haha)

I like fielding a mix of blobbed infantry squads, usually one 30 man squad w/ flamers and autocannons, or 2 20 man squads for larger games, w/ commissar support and a smattering of PWs in case of assault.

Blobbed squads really shine in holding down a capture and control objective. In big enough squads, you can actually control an radius larger than 3", making your opponent actually have to dislodge your stubborn, 31 wound squad in order to contest the objective.

That being said, I think a couple vets in chimera are mandatory for any IG list (vets in valks count as well), mostly for dealing with enemy armor, and grabbing objectives.

All vet/chimera lists are good, as are mixed and inf horde lists. I like a mix of the two because it forces my opponent to diversify his force rather then just loading up on the anti armor.

Is it worth giving Veteran squads heavy weapon teams (especially las cannon) just for the higher BS shots?

Im thinking of using them as gun line , and giving their chimera hvy bolter and hvy flamer to babysit the line.

Single-shot at BS4 over BS3? No.

JohnHwangDD wrote:SWS is for fielding triple S8 AP2 Demolitions Charge Ordnance. It's a Scoring unit that hits like hell when it outflanks, then isn't worth the enemy's time to actually deal with.

iirc, you can only take one demo charge per squad.

dietrich wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:SWS is for fielding triple S8 AP2 Demolitions Charge Ordnance. It's a Scoring unit that hits like hell when it outflanks, then isn't worth the enemy's time to actually deal with.

iirc, you can only take one demo charge per squad.

There is no such restriction for Special Weapons Squads.

Or, rather, the 0-1 Demo Charge restriction has been removed with the new Codex. This change is what makes SWS "good".

Tho, if playing KPs, and one of the charges scatters over your own dudes, I wonder if you get a KP for them killing themselves...

Am I getting SWS confused with Vets? Can Vets only take one demo charge?

Hmm well that sort of solves the question D:

Iorek bought half of my gun line xD

back to 1 platoon for me + vets!

JohnHwangDD wrote:Or, rather, the 0-1 Demo Charge restriction has been removed with the new Codex. This change is what makes SWS "good".

Tho, if playing KPs, and one of the charges scatters over your own dudes, I wonder if you get a KP for them killing themselves...

Just all totally wrong.

Heres why;

Imperial Guard Codex 5th edition wrote:Thee guardsmen must choose one of the following options:
- replace his lasgun with a flamer.. etc
- etc..
- A demolition charge.

This is all the information and context that you'll need. I'll just point out a few key bits.

Imperial Guard Codex 5th edition wrote:Thee guardsmen must choose one of the following options:...

and

Imperial Guard Codex 5th edition wrote:
- A demolition charge.

So, right, three guardsmen can only choice the option for the demolition charge once. When they choose the option for

Imperial Guard Codex 5th edition wrote:
- A demolition charge.

they only get one. Makes sense. "A demolition charge" is after all, only one demolition charge and not, infact, three demolition charges.

LOL, you're spouting nonsense.

Go read the IG Codex for Demolition Charge.

It's one-use.

So each of the 3 Guardsmen can buy *A* Demolition Charge, granting themselves one use, rather than being able to throw Demolition Charges all day long.


But if you're so sure of yourself, why don't you make the same argument for for *A* Flamer, or "A" Melta?

They don't replace their weapons with the demo charge because it is one shot and it would be odd for them to be unarmed after they fire it.
I disagree about 3 man outflanking units being uber, for most armies, particularly mech, it is not difficult to keep important units 12" away from the edge by the time the SWS comes in.

Just all totally wrong.

I think you misunderstand what JHDD was saying. Special Weapon squads used to be limited to taking a single demo charge per unit. Now they can take 3 in the unit. He wasn't talking per model.

Thank you, winterman.

The thought never crossed my mind that Razerous was so n00b that he didn't know the old Codex had a 0-1 DC limit per SWS...

Ok, flaming aside guys...

I prefer to run a mix: 1 platoon to at least 2 vet squads in chimeras. The platoon, depending on how large you make it, is usually capable of defending your backfield by itself (except for deepstriking terminators... those take some extra preparation to defeat. Daemonhunter allies are awesome for this), while your mechvets scoot upfield to take harder-to-reach objectives. The infantry platoons are better on defense, the vets are better on the land grab, see? I load up my vets with 3x meltas to make tanks flee in terror of the dreaded 6" mark of that chimmie's tophatch.

My list right now runs 3 vet squads in chimeras, and 1 infantry squad with lots of heavy weapons. It is fun to play, at the least.

Gives me such the sad face when people dont read the codex.

Ofcourse infantry platoons would be the best thing in the world if a 55pt squad could dish out that kind of firepower. But it cant. Its obvious. Read the rules. Suggesting anything to the contarary without backing up your claim with referances is just TFG.

I prefer platoons as I like the combine squad rule and many weapons per single orders. That and damage soaking goodness.

Until they get sweeping advanced, combined platoons are cool. That's why you need to avoid CC with them a fair bit, if they're combined.

n0t_u wrote:Until they get sweeping advanced, combined platoons are cool. That's why you need to avoid CC with them a fair bit, if they're combined.

Stubborn + a re-rollable LD9 is pretty much the most reliable way to avoid sweeping advances. 35pts for the pleasure, for 10men or 50.

Doesnt anyone read the codex?

Razerous wrote:

n0t_u wrote:Until they get sweeping advanced, combined platoons are cool. That's why you need to avoid CC with them a fair bit, if they're combined.

Stubborn + a re-rollable LD9 is pretty much the most reliable way to avoid sweeping advances. 35pts for the pleasure, for 10men or 50.

Doesnt anyone read the codex?

This.

Platoons also become scary when they have access to Furious Charge (thank you, Creed!). Multiple PW sergeants and the ridiculous number of S4 attacks can overcome a lot of things.

Yesterday my platoon of 31 guys nearly wiped out a charging unit of around 23 Ork Boyz.

Razerous wrote:

n0t_u wrote:Until they get sweeping advanced, combined platoons are cool. That's why you need to avoid CC with them a fair bit, if they're combined.

Stubborn + a re-rollable LD9 is pretty much the most reliable way to avoid sweeping advances. 35pts for the pleasure, for 10men or 50.

Doesnt anyone read the codex?

Haven't gotten the chance to yet, although I usually do. I'm only starting them now
Definitely going to use them now.

Edit: Just found it, it's the Commissar, right?

On the SWS front, I finally read the rule, and it's in a structure unknown to the english language. You can see interpreting it as Razerous does, in which only one guy can take a demo charge, but I think by that logic you're stuck with all three guys taking one flamer or something. GW isn't shy about telling us when things are limited to one per squad (simply look at the heavy flamer option for veterans).

BTW, the reason the demo charge doesn't replace the lasgun is because the models (made for the catachans) clearly still have lasguns.

Polonius wrote:On the SWS front, I finally read the rule, and it's in a structure unknown to the english language. You can see interpreting it as Razerous does, in which only one guy can take a demo charge, but I think by that logic you're stuck with all three guys taking one flamer or something. GW isn't shy about telling us when things are limited to one per squad (simply look at the heavy flamer option for veterans).

BTW, the reason the demo charge doesn't replace the lasgun is because the models (made for the catachans) clearly still have lasguns.

"One choice" & "-A demolition charge" never ever wever bether mileryther allows you to have more than one demo charge per SWS.

Edit: The reason a demo charge doesnt replace the lasgun on the SWS guardsmen is because it doesnt tell you to replace them. Simple as.

And yes, Im liking infantry blob walls to flank my armarda of tanks. So many choices.. so little time. There is the risk, though, with platoons to over-equip them for the purpose you want them to do thus making them ineffiecent.

Seriously god NO.

Three guys must choose on of the options below.

take a demo charge.

I could argue you into all 3 guys have to take the same option (which most peeps are going to do anyway), but nowhere does it suggest youre limited to one demo charge.

otherwise your stuckl with squads with 1 dmeo charge, 1 plasma gun and one flamer.

How do you say it otherwise?

Mary, Sally and Holly went into the weapons strongroom and all chose a lasgun for their first weapon. Now did they all take a single lasgun or did they go for a single lasgun for 3 people? Its not the soviet IG you know?


One of the following options, is only to prevent people taking demo charges AND a melta.