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Having played Guard since third edition its imo that the 5th edition update is the most fun and diverse IG list, ever - now is the best time to play IG in terms of rules. As for the OP; a mix of both is best. Penal legion troops aren't bad either.

Gunnery Sergeant Harker is an upgrade for a Veteran squad that is a pretty good value since he adds a doctrine/special rules to his squad along with a mobile heavy bolter and a few more perks.; you get all this for 55 points. Not to mention its a fun unit to use on the tabletop.

Chimera's also offer some armored versatility to troop choices since models can fire out of the hatch and orders can still be issued within one. My suggestion would be a mix of all of the above since they're all effective choices and it also depends on the rest of your list composition so you can maximize synergy.

Right. New thread. Deary me. Sorry OP

Edit: Actually, I wont start a new thread. I sat down and re-read that section a few more times and I do agree that it can be viewed in a way that means three guardsmen can "take a demolition charge".

I personally dont think this is the case; A triple demo squad loaded into a valkyrie which then outflanks, coming onto the board (possibly on a 2+/3+) via a flat-out 24" move, to then drop a squad which then unloads 3 str8 ap2 large blast assault weapons is just a tad broken. Its 195-225pts for this combo allowing for the variety of loadouts that the valkyrie chassis allows for. I mean, not including the possibility of a poor scatter (which could well be circumvented via twin-linking the shots with a 24" creed Order -vs MC or tanks), what can withstand even one str8 ap2 large blast, let alone the possibility for a second and third?

because that's really expensive for a suicide squad

I thought the "Bring It Down" order only worked on heavy weapons, which demolition charges are not.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:because that's really expensive for a suicide squad

No its not. 95pts is cheaper than a suicide melta squad (of any description) I cant really think of a cheaper useful suicide damage squad. The valkyrie is not suiciding, it's concealed that turn so its relatively protected.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:I thought the "Bring It Down" order only worked on heavy weapons, which demolition charges are not.

Nope. "A single friendly non-vehicle unit within his command radius.." "This can be the officers own squad if you wish" < Quotes from the Orders section of the Imperial guard 5th edition codex.

Stick a lord commisar in the middle of a plattoon and you get stubborn units! hmm..

TheFirstBorn wrote:Stick a lord commisar in the middle of a plattoon and you get stubborn units! hmm..

Or you could just use a standard Commissar (who is untargetable in close-combats) for 1/2 the points. Commissar lords are best used for Conscript heavy or HWS heavy armies.

Razerous wrote: not including the possibility of a poor scatter (which could well be circumvented via twin-linking the shots with a 24" creed Order -vs MC or tanks), what can withstand even one str8 ap2 large blast, let alone the possibility for a second and third?

A Fortuned Seer team can, without blinking an eye, but who cares?

Guard can lay down 3 S10 AP2 plates at 24" range, tied to an AV14/13/11 platform. Having to be Guardsmen within 6" is fair.

Tossing in Creed, well, if you want to burn lots of points, I guess that's your prerogative...

If you want to limit each SWS to a maximum of one DC, then you need to do the same with CCS, PCS, Veteran and HWS units as well. And that isn't the common understanding. But feel free to take the issue to YMDC, and see whether you have any luck there.

In the mean time, please keep your OT stuff out of this thread.

Not your thread and dont be a hypocrit.

A fortuned seer team is the single most resilient unit in the entire game, so you prove my point by bothering to mention them in that context, thanks. Also, if all three large-blasts hit.. A couple of seers will actually die.

The (cheap) suicide squad costs 95pts (if you use the 'other' rules for DC). Three demolishers cost upwards of 500pts. Umm, do you not see the differeance?

Creed was just an example of possible force multiplaction, there is no need to pick. Its quite pointless, as is this sentence because of it.

No, you do-not need to do the same with HWS/CCS/PCS and vets. Its worded very differently and generally more clearly. So why bother even mentioning it, unless you really have trouble with the rules. You obviously dont so your just being all flamey/inciting.

Razerous wrote:Not your thread and dont be a hypocrit.

That's like asking water not to be wet.

A fortuned seer team is the single most resilient unit in the entire game, so you prove my point by bothering to mention them in that context, thanks. Also, if all three large-blasts hit.. A couple of seers will actually die.

The (cheap) suicide squad costs 95pts (if you use the 'other' rules for DC). Three demolishers cost upwards of 500pts. Umm, do you not see the differeance?

Three demo charges, even with the new rules for hits, can be countered. It's a single unit that's not just 95pts, but also requires the valk to be fully effective. If outflanking, it's less than fully reliable (or you have to add an astropath for another 30pts), and then requires that they hit, that the models fail invulnerable/cover saves, and that they not be bunched together. There is a very high damage potential, but in practice I just don't think it's as devastating as you think. It's also not nearly as cheap as you're making it out to be, either in actual points cost or difficulty in setting up their shot.

In short, I don't think it's overly broken. There are times and ways to make it good, but I don't think we're going to see triple Demo charge spam any time soon.

I think that the triple demo-charge SWS in a Chimera has a place. It's not too expensive (150-ish points), can toss all three charges out of the top hatch, and is still scoring afterwards. It's not too bad for clearing a moderately-sized troop squad off of an objective and then sitting on it, and once you've used the demo charges, you don't care too much if you lose the squad.

I think keeping it cheap is the way to go.

I'd like it more if they could buy a dedicated chimera. There are plenty of ways to get one, but there are also too many reserves missions and stuff where you can't start in the chimera.

I dont run Veterans with my guard, i run two mechenized platoons instead, and feel 3 command squads are enough melta spam needed.

Polonius wrote:I'd like it more if they could buy a dedicated chimera. There are plenty of ways to get one, but there are also too many reserves missions and stuff where you can't start in the chimera.

I hadn't considered that. Maybe time for a re-think.

Veterans are awsome
its all I use (thats probably because I don't have enough cash to by more comand squads)
A down side to using veterans is that you don't have as many troops as when you use a platoon.
I was wondering if I should just buy a normal squad and seperate it into 2 five man squads with two 'sergents'
How do you start a new forum BTW (im new to dakka)

GO GAURD

gaurdsmantom wrote:Veterans are awsome
its all I use (thats probably because I don't have enough cash to by more comand squads)
A down side to using veterans is that you don't have as many troops as when you use a platoon.
I was wondering if I should just buy a normal squad and seperate it into 2 five man squads with two 'sergents'
How do you start a new forum BTW (im new to dakka)

GO GAURD

There's a button in the topic list that says "New Topic". It's in the same place the new post button is in a topic.

I found running with 2 platoon's w/ kitted Command worked in my lasted few games but they both ended in draws. I am currently juggling forces to see balance the damage and support units around. but In 4ht in always ran a Mech Vet/gren list that was a lot of fun with only one major defeat so do not rule out your vets

I've been having limited success with a "hammer and sickle" approach... basically its 2-3 veteran squads in chimeras, a russ or two, and a single large platoon of guardsman. In the platoon, I have been putting different heavy weapon squads and scattering heavy weapons throughout the squads. Right now I am favorable to a balanced approach of a h. weapon squad of mortars, a h. weapon squad of lascannons, and missile launchers in the infantry squads (I like to take 4 squads and combine them into 2 20 man squads.)

The PCS is kitted with 4x snipers for the rending. I am not too fond of this outfit yet but I have yet to find a more preferable approach.

The sickle is your melta-vet teams in the chimmies. I like to run 3 squads, with a single russ to distract from them and draw fire so the chimmies can haul butt up one side of the board, circling in and attacking exposed armor or objectives. That way, the opponent is forced to either deal with the russ and its templates, or try to take out a single melta-squad.

The hammer is the infantry platoon's heavy weapons. Mortars can pin the enemy infantry, while lascannons and missile launchers can pick apart armor from afar. Sometimes I have trouble with MEQs due to the lack of many high AP weapons, but the normal guard tactic of fire saturation generally takes care of them.

Re: triple demo charge being overpowered, frankly I think the opposite, at least compared to your other options. A 3x melta vet squad is only 5 more points, and much more dangerous to certain targets -- the demo charges are great against tight-packed infantry and MEQs, but pretty worthless against most vehicles. Against AV 14 you can't penetrate, against 13 you've got only around 57% chance of a pen assuming all three holes end up on the target.

Personally, I'd rather have the melta-vets against anything but horde orks, necrons, tyranids, or other infantry-heavy forces.

It's also unfair to say "they're both suicide squads," because they're not equivalent. The melta-vets are easy to kill, but your opponent still has to waste a unit's worth of fire or CC at the minimum to kill them, possibly more then one; that's firepower not going into the rest of your army. The SWS, having thrown its demo-charges, can be essentially ignored unless it's sitting on an objective or something.


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