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Because mine didn't have one...

Nope it doesn't.
There's been a lot of grumbling about it as you basically have to pay 15 more bucks to get one

Wow... what a rip off... I will never buy one again... $50 for a tank smaller than a Land Raider and it doesn't have a tank sprue...

I bet the new Hellhound is the same...

But the old Chimera and Leman Russ do have the sprue. At least for the time being...

New Hellhound is the same - all that money for exactly two sprues. No accessories whatsoever. Expect the Russ, Chimera and new Arty vehicles to be put into the same boat.

Games Workshop - Paying more for less!!!!

I don't know what's worse... GW continuing to rip people off and use dirty, underhanded business practices...

... or the fact that we keep giving them our money...

GW's target audience are the kids who are in the hobby for 18 months at most before moving on to other things. For that reason they can do pretty much what they like as the people coming into the hobby don't know any better and they leave before major changes can take place.

H.B.M.C. wrote:GW's target audience are the kids who are in the hobby for 18 months at most before moving on to other things. For that reason they can do pretty much what they like as the people coming into the hobby don't know any better and they leave before major changes can take place.

Sad but true.

well it dos come with 3 main guns and all the side guns
that il take anyday over the other stuff that i hav 10 of

H.B.M.C. wrote:New Hellhound is the same - all that money for exactly two sprues. No accessories whatsoever. Expect the Russ, Chimera and new Arty vehicles to be put into the same boat.

Games Workshop - Paying more for less!!!!

didn't you read their most recent corporate financial statement from about 2-3 months ago? they're finally going to "start charging what the plastic is worth"!! up until now, they've been cutting you a deal on those minis! the free ride is over Mr. H.B.M.C.!

They also don't sell Guardsmen by the platoon anymore I believe. You still pay the same price as the old boxes of 30, and you get exactly the same sculpts, but now you get 10 or 15 less minis per box according to the 5th ed Cadian box on the shelves at my buddy's FLGS.

That said, the lack of Leman Russ Accessories doesn't supprise me. At least the Chimera still has one. I picked one up a few weeks back and was happy to see an accessories sprue in a 5th ed box.

Kasrkinlegion wrote:"Does the New Leman Russ not Come with a tank accessory sprue?"

Yes, it does not come with one.

You have to buy the accessories separately.

Just like the new LR Demolisher/punisher/executioner doesn't come with a regular battlecannon either.

Kasrkinlegion wrote:I don't know what's worse... GW continuing to rip people off and use dirty, underhanded business practices...

... or the fact that we keep giving them our money...

The one in bold.

hey warboss, I wonder how much this much plastic costs? rofl

http://www.internethobbies.com/dr1gemasutak.html

The link is to a 1/35 scale German Maus model; retail is about $47 U.S.

They also don't sell Guardsmen by the platoon anymore I believe. You still pay the same price as the old boxes of 30, and you get exactly the same sculpts, but now you get 10 or 15 less minis per box according to the 5th ed Cadian box on the shelves at my buddy's FLGS.

Yeah, the original box was 20 guardsmen for $35, now it's 10 for $22....I don't get it...

The lack of an accessory sprue is a damn shame...sure you get a lot of extra pieces with the old accessory sprues, but why take them all the way out, then charge us $15 if you want the dozer blade and some jerry cans?

Was it 20? It always seemed like more... I guess I never really counted (Keeping a tally on infantry is a myth with IG ). It's $35 in the US? Ouch. The box of 20 was $25 here... Box of 10 still is. Apparently GW's "Cost" price level hasn't gone down with the number of minis per box -_-

Anyway, my advice on accessories would just be to load up on Chimeras before they decide to start phasing accessories out of the 5th ed boxes for them too. Besides, Guard use a lot of the bloody things so it's not like you're buying something you don't need just for a sprue. That or just start making resin copies of the originals for personal use (Hey, it isn't illegal until you start selling them )

metallifan wrote:That or just start making resin copies of the originals for personal use (Hey, it isn't illegal until you start selling them )

Sadly, it is illegal to copy any three dimensional product, whether you sell it or not, as it violates an implicit artistic copyright. I used to play 40k with a copyright attourney.

Kasrkinlegion wrote:

metallifan wrote:That or just start making resin copies of the originals for personal use (Hey, it isn't illegal until you start selling them )

Sadly, it is illegal to copy any three dimensional product, whether you sell it or not, as it violates an implicit artistic copyright. I used to play 40k with a copyright attourney.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/249865.page

Kasrkinlegion wrote:

metallifan wrote:That or just start making resin copies of the originals for personal use (Hey, it isn't illegal until you start selling them )

Sadly, it is illegal to copy any three dimensional product, whether you sell it or not, as it violates an implicit artistic copyright. I used to play 40k with a copyright attourney.

Really? :( That's unfortunate. You ask me, players should be able to recast for presonal use. I mean - you can recreate their imagery and use their IP so long as it isn't for profit, so I don't see why casting should be an exemption to them.

Ahh well. It's not really difficult to design a different bulldozer blade along with other accessories that just so happen to fit their tanks with a little but of cutting/filing.

Quick Question about the recasting... If painted how will they know?

Well technically if you don't distribute, either for income or for free, your recasts, then they won't. Like when people first started doing 40K mods for video games, GW was all over it with legal threats... until they realized that so long as there was no income being made and modders followed a set of IP regulations, there's really no harm. Sort of the same principle on recasts, only minus the free distribution as that -would- hurt their business.

In summary, as long as you're making casts for you and you only, even -if- they knew, they likely wouldn't really care. At most you might get a slap on the wrist and a warning that if you ever start selling, they'll take serious action. But what's one player casting his own tank accessories for his own personal use going to do to their income when they have hundreds of parents buying thousands of dollars of their product for their bratty kids, who will probably abandon the hobby within a year, every day? Look at how many people cast resin copies of discontinued styles of Guardsmen. Has GW done anything to stop them? No. Because they're casting them for personal use with no intention of distribution.

Please read the link i added earlier , it covers arguments from both side , including the points you brought up.

I did Luna, but I can't agree to such a principle because it's unrealistic. Most of us have living expenses and don't have the thousands of dollars it would require to buy enough tanks to get all the accessories a player might need for the forseeable future. Most of us are living in reality. We buy what we can when we can afford it, but like most people, I don't have the money to buy two tanks to get one accessory sprue. I do believe it's morally wrong for players to make an income of any amount through recasting GW sculpts or casting anything other than discontinued or nearly discontinued items, but when GW makes a point to all but cease producing a sculpt or sprue, recasting becomes a matter of money and availability.

Like I said, if the sprues were more available, would I support recasting their contents? Absolutely not. Would I support selling or handing out the recasts even if GW entirely pulled the plug? Not a chance. You're hurting their business by doing either.

But if they almost completely remove an item so as to force loyal players to buy more of their product, because of their poor marketing and business management strategies, just to get one sprue that they need (as is the case), would I support recasting for private use without redistribution? In an instant. Because what GW is doing is far worse than recasting your own sprues. If 50% of all sales went to starving displaced orphans in Ethiopia then I would probably advise against recasting. But truth is, the money lines their pockets and we generally get told to "bend over and enjoy it". They're already outsourcing to China as it is (Apparently fair wages are too much to ask) so I can't say that I support them in their battle against personal recasting.

Sigh, this again . . .

Most of us have living expenses and don't have the thousands of dollars it would require to buy enough tanks to get all the accessories a player might need for the forseeable future.

Emphasis mine - you don't NEED toy soldiers. The only reason offered for recasting is "because I want it and am not prepared to pay what the people who own the product want to charge". That is selfish theft. If people are happy with that, fine - a lot of people are not and consider it immoral and wrong.

There is perhaps a case to be made for designing your own Space Marine from scratch but based on GW IP and casting it for personal use without selling it - morally, if not legally. One could PERHAPS make a case that if it is an OOP model for which there is no alternative it is moral if not legal. I would not make such cases, but others would.

But there is no case to be made for simply recasting something which is freely available for purchase; no case, that is, except for "I want it and damnit, I will have it without going to the expense the people who own this want me to!"

It selfish theft, based on an entitlement mentality. If people are happy with that (and most people ARE happy with being selfish and stealing and think they are entitled) then go right ahead. Just don't just verbs like "need" - it is ridiculous. Humans need food, water and shelter and very little else. They certainly don't need toy soldiers.

But truth is, the money lines their pockets

Because, as we all know, making money by selling a product is EVIL and WRONG! Never mind that is how the vast majority of people on this forum make their living. We work for corporations who make and sell products.

But, oh no - that's not good enough. A toy soldier company is worse than those who steal because they do not give money to starving orphans? Did I interpret your analogy right?

metallifan wrote:They also don't sell Guardsmen by the platoon anymore I believe. You still pay the same price as the old boxes of 30, and you get exactly the same sculpts, but now you get 10 or 15 less minis per box according to the 5th ed Cadian box on the shelves at my buddy's FLGS.

That said, the lack of Leman Russ Accessories doesn't supprise me. At least the Chimera still has one. I picked one up a few weeks back and was happy to see an accessories sprue in a 5th ed box.

The old boxes had 20 not 30 men. And the price has changed too... They were £18 for 20 before, now they're £12 for 10. More expensive but not as bad as you make out.

You're right. I don't need them. Which is why I only buy them when I can comfortably afford them. Most of the stuff I already have is repainted from years back or gifts that I've accumulated as a christmas or a birthday gift. It has nothing to do with not being prepared to pay for something, it's being forced to buy something I don't need for something that should have been included originally, considering the cost of the Leman Russ kit has gone up, yet we get less in it. If anything, -that- is selfish theft. I have nothing against the people that consider it immoral, but I can't agree with them. The business practices that are exhibited by charging more for less are immoral and wrong to me. Recasting, in my eyes (and the eyes of anyone else that supports or does it) is simply giving us what we deserve for our money in the first place.

And in the sense of OOP models/parts, the IG Tank Accessories are fast joining that category. The whole case here was that the generic accessories sprue that was once available with every tank is now available only through the Chimera. It may as well be OOP because unless you have the money to buy a Chimera with every Russ, Hellhound, or Bassie, you're SoL for accessories. I would say that given that fact, recasting a few items off of the sprue to save yourself from buying a $75 tank every time you need them isn't exactly a terrible action to take, but rather a necessary one.

Again, freely available if you have the $75 every time you want to pop a searchlight or a dozer blade on one of your tanks. It's not that people are too lazy to buy a $75 tank for the sprue, it's just that it's a preposterous idea, and it's not fair to the people that serve as the whole foundation of the company and the reason it's still alive.


I'm pretty sure you missed the entire point there, so I'll gladly elaborate . There's nothing wrong with Capitalism. I just don't agree with increasing the price of something when you've taken away from it, while decreasing the quality of materials and workforce. If I'm paying more for less, it better be far improved over previous versions. This isn't the case with the 'new' Russ. It's the same sprue set with a new box and one less sprue, and it's made from a weaker plastic than the previous version. Yet it costs between $10 and $20 more than it's predecessor depending on where you live. What part of all that justifies that price jump that couldn't justify casting 1 or 2 things off of the old accessories sprue that someone would like to add to their tank without being forced to buy yet another tank just to get those 1 or 2 pieces?

You took it too literally to be exact. 'Starving Orphans' was just an example. I was just saying that they need a better reason than "I wants moar muniez!" to be increasing the price while taking something away without any good reason to do so. If they add a new accessory sprue, I'll be a happy man. But as it stands, the average joe has to pay $18 more for a tank that's worth about $12 less than it's previous version with the removal of that sprue. I'm sure given that you can see where my frustration (and that of many others) comes from. Thankfully I'm good friends with the owner of my preferred FLGS, so I get a bit of a reduction on things, but it's still not fair to those that aren't so lucky.

That's why I support people that do minor and minimal personal casting. Because they shouldn't have to pay more when they aren't getting as much bang for their buck. I don't do casting myself. I don't have the space or equipment. I don't support people that cast whole infantry platoons or whole tanks because that's just overcasting. That -IS- being selfish and I have no sympathy for those people should they get in trouble with the Imperial Lawyers.

They've started to offer the Tank Accessory Sprue for bitz order, metalifan. You don't need to buy a Chimera to get it. And there are a few things wrong with Capitalism but that's for another thread.

Sanchez01 wrote:Quick Question about the recasting... If painted how will they know?

It will weigh about three times as much, and unless you are a pro, it will be obvious.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:They've started to offer the Tank Accessory Sprue for bitz order, metalifan. You don't need to buy a Chimera to get it. And there are a few things wrong with Capitalism but that's for another thread.

That's a bit better then. Do they at least offer it for it's worth? Or have they jacked it up to half the price of the tank?

NO_SUCH_LUCK wrote:

Sanchez01 wrote:Quick Question about the recasting... If painted how will they know?

It will weigh about three times as much, and unless you are a pro, it will be obvious.

Unless they recasting plastic bits into resin. ( resin is light )