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So I recently attempted to do some conversion for a paint and play escalation league. In doing so I made the Tyrant guard too big to fit on the supplied base 40mm(i think). So I used the next higher size base 60mm(?). What are the rules as far as going up in size for the base.

Here is image of guard:


Thanks

There are no rules for it. You are only allowed to put things on the base they came with. Maybe GW just really messed up the packaging on those three Tyrant Guard...

Yes, that's the current rule in 5th edition. I don't know if anyone would give you a hard time for going to a larger base. To me it seems like any benefits are balanced by the drawbacks.

Pretty cool conversions, I doubt most people would have an issue since they are literally spilling off the standard bases, but it might be worth coming up with a way to change the base size incase you get a stickler.

Just say "I got these bases in my Box". No-one can prove otherwise.

Honestly, basing the middle one larger actually puts you at a bit of a disadvantage. I'd say base em like the normal Guards (i.e. The medium size bases, no idea what MM they are).

Tho, I will admit, I run my old Termis with the old bases. Ticks people off something fierce at times lol

Rulebook, page 3.

They look fine on the 40mm bases. I'd say stick with them, it will also avoid any issues.

Steelmage99 wrote:Rulebook, page 3.

Your point? He might have gotten a Faulty Pack that had the wrong bases in them

Actually there is a rule for it, its in the book. According to GT guidelines you can always go bigger but you can never go smaller. So for example, tyrant gaurd come with a 40mm base (the newest model is what you go off of, and putting mistakes aside) so they can be put on a 40mm base or larger. Granted if you ran around with gaurd on dinner plates you would get some serious stink eye. A lot of old players run into this problem with terminators, for the most part people are transfering the old models to larger bases, you usually dont get too much flak in a tournament for having smaller bases on a few models as long as you arent trying to get an advantage from it (like say running 30 termies on small bases will get you DQ'd a properly run tournament). It really does make a huge difference. Just like people were snatching up all the old ork trukks because they are smaller. GW had a run of people calling trying to get the old trukks just for this reason. So if you want to be sure you can run your models anywhere and you want to be a good sport the 40 or 60mm is fine. Although you may still get some flak for running 60mm because the bases are bigger you units will provide 4+ cover saves to units behind them easier, I would go to great lengths to model the bases so it dosent appear you are trying to abuse the rules.

the whole "this is what I got in the box" argument, is not an excuse (tournament wise) you call GW and they send you the right bases (or if you have a competent store they give you the correct bases and deal with GW themselves). Because now you are trying to get an unfair advantage and are basically cheating. Now if you made a mistake and are in the process of fixing it thats different and something could be worked out (like doing a close counts rule where if you would normally hit the model but dont because they are on smaller bases then you hit them). But then again some people feel they need to do whatever they can to win, so be it if you know better and need to cheat, then its so much sweeter when you lose because you got beat despite the fact you cheated. So if you have honor and can play the game, do whats right, if not then by all means cheat and soon enough you'll have no one to play with and we will be rid of another dishonest player.

The allowance for larger bases was written in the 4e rulebook. Then changed in 5e.

kirsanth wrote:The allowance for larger bases was written in the 4e rulebook. Then changed in 5e.

Because Emperor forbid GW be consistent in any way

Since this is basically a RAP thread rather than RAW - as by definition it requires opponent's consent, I wouldn't complain about base size, especially since you win via the Rule of Cool. The bit in the BGB is, IMO, more to cover complaints about people gaining a height advantage or trying to claim cover for their modelled bases.

So I can use the MC bases for gaunts because I got a battleset box?

hehe

Thanks for everyone's responses. The insight provided here is much appreciated. The Tyrant came with the right size base initially (Terminator size?/40mm). Only when I messed with the model and increased the footprint of the Tyrant Guard did I have to go up to a carnifex base (60mm) I had. I thought of putting some kind of ruin or rock or something but it would completely cover the 40mm base.

Here is a better photo of why I put it on a bigger base, it was never my intention to model it for unfair advantage, just thought it might look cool:

kirsanth wrote:So I can use the MC bases for gaunts because I got a battleset box?

hehe

Yes, but I got a Brick, Sock and Ticket to Mexico in mine

I may have to steal this concept for Guard from you.

Gwar! wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:Rulebook, page 3.

Your point? He might have gotten a Faulty Pack that had the wrong bases in them

My point is that the rule is clearly explained on page 3 (in the rulebook. Not in a certain British newspaper. ).

I am surprised that such a strong proponent of RAW as yourself have any trouble with this.

Regardless of what your base size is, those models look awesome. I love your idea.

Quick question, those are Carnifex bits on a Tyrant Guard torso, right?

Then I'd say you put them on the base that the model came with. You just happened to have two choices.

In all seriousness, this is a modeling hobby. Sometimes fethmooks try to gain unfair advantage by putting crappy or Counts-As conversions on smaller/larger bases but this really doesn't look like one of those times. I don't think you'll have any problems, especially considering how good the conversion looks.

sourclams wrote:Regardless of what your base size is, those models look awesome. I love your idea.

Quick question, those are Carnifex bits on a Tyrant Guard torso, right?

Thanks...

Yea I used carnifex crushing claws cut down a little for the front hooves. The arms holding the various carnifex armor plates are from a warrior sprue the big rending claws I think. And on the middle one I used warrior legs because I got so tired of cutting the front arms off the metal tyrant back legs. And think there should always be a little deviation in the Tyranid gene pool.

Gwar! wrote:Just say "I got these bases in my Box". No-one can prove otherwise.

Because, you know, honesty is over-rated.


Seriously, I find the willingness of so many people to lie about unimportant things rather depressing.

It seems odd to condemn someone for lying about small things, and not just condemning the act of lying altogether. Lying about small things seems a lesser evil than lying about big things.

That was a bit off topic though.

@ OP: Putting them on any base other than the standard size for the model is going to cause problem, regardless of steps you take to minimize the problems. Some people will not like that it alters the way the model plays in the game. To be safe, put them on the original size base. If you do not intend to use them in an environment where it would be an issue, then by all means do whatever you like.

I personally would not have a problem given how cool the models look, combined with my belief that you are not just doing it to gain any advantage in game. YMMV.

Specifically with the tyrant guard, if they have lash whips, if your tyrant guard assaults, the defenders "attempt to move into base contact with an enemy".

If you have a 60mm base vs the supplied 40mm base, more defenders have to try to get into base contact with you, meaning more models loose an attack.

Thats just one problem specifically with having larger bases than the base supplied and a specific upgrade item.

That being said, you need to ask your opponents permission to use the models. I really don't know anyone who would really have a problem with it, in a tournament situation ask the organizer beforehand if its ok to play with those model. Any reasonable player won't have a problem with it, and they look like cool conversions.

Also, before you go saying, "well this the base that came with it", I'm pretty sure that guard of that molding only come in blisters meaning you had to buy 3 different mispacks, with 60mm bases that won't fit into a blister pack....

Dracos wrote:It seems odd to condemn someone for lying about small things, and not just condemning the act of lying altogether. Lying about small things seems a lesser evil than lying about big things.

Don't get me wrong, I find lying for any reason distasteful. But to me, lying about the big things (as in, when telling the truth or not actually has some sort of serious impact on someone) can at least sometimes be justified. Lying when it really wouldn't make any difference if you tell the truth, though... there's no justification for that, because there's no need for it.

@ OP: Putting them on any base other than the standard size for the model is going to cause problem, regardless of steps you take to minimize the problems.

In practice, it really doesn't.


If you're using them in a tournament, just get them okayed by the TO before the event. You won't find many who would have an issue with it.
If you're using them for casual gaming, the vast majority of players couldn't care less about base sizes so long as you don't do anything too excessive. Point it out before the game, and they'll be fine. Chances are, if you come across a player who objects to something this trivial, they're probably not the sort of player you want to play against in a casual setting anyway.

Dracos wrote:
@ OP: Putting them on any base other than the standard size for the model is going to cause problem, regardless of steps you take to minimize the problems. Some people will not like that it alters the way the model plays in the game. To be safe, put them on the original size base. If you do not intend to use them in an environment where it would be an issue, then by all means do whatever you like.

I don't see how this affects game play at all. you still need to set up behind a certain barrier. you can not set up your model 30 mm more just because the base is bigger. And for assaults, the only advantage is more models can be in base to base contact which makes the assault easier for both sides.




-Orkishly

orkishlyorkish wrote:I don't see how this affects game play at all. you still need to set up behind a certain barrier. you can not set up your model 30 mm more just because the base is bigger. And for assaults, the only advantage is more models can be in base to base contact which makes the assault easier for both sides.

Don't forget about potentially reduced template hits, ability to screen more on the frontage etc. On the other hand, they're harder to hide.

As I said before, I don't see this as MFA, since it's purely because they'd look ridiculous on the standard sized-bases. And they look a heck of a lot better than the standard Tyrant Guard.

Two of them are on the right size base 40mm, it is just the one guard that is open a little that I moved to the larger base. In combat I can remove the big base tyrant guard first.

Again thank you everyone for your thoughts, great community here.

If you do as you just said (playing only the one big one on the big base, and removing him first as a casualty), I don’t expect any problems.

As noted, with Lash Whips, a bigger base can indeed confer a game advantage. Also, the way you’ve modeled these guys with the enormous shields certainly will be more advantageous for screening monstrous creatures moving behind them (who need to be 50% physically hidden to claim cover saves). They do look great, but when the conversion gives you a game advantage, you want to be careful.

I have 3 Tyranid warriors in (rather small) square bases. I have not gotten around to buying/bumming three appropriately sized round bases to fit them on.

I have it mentioned to me in every game I play - sometime with more vehemence than others. Targeting, range, CC, blasts, templates, and more are affected. So unless I need all 18 of my current warriors, I do NOT field the ones on squares. When I do field them, I remove them first every time so as to minimize issues.

I daresay the issue is analogous, but not the same, as the models are from Space Crusade and came with the bases.

Rippers though, make things weird.

shrug

Actually if the base he was supplied with were actually larger than normal, he would fine (even required), RaW, using it.

P. 3: "Citadel miniatures are normally supplied with a plastic base. If so, they must be glued onto their bases before they can be used in the game."

So you're required to use the base it's supplied with. If there's a supply issue, then RaW, you're not allowed to request the proper size, you're required to use the incorrect one.

That said, if your bases are an unusual size, the rules allow you to "make sure your opponent doesn't mind" and use them anyway. I don't think anyone should mind you using slightly larger bases in order to allow a cool conversion.