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Over the years I've seen many folks speak on forums on using models for their RPG games. Modern D&D almost seems geared up for them now due to the figures they sell, (in fact I almost weapt when I saw the starter box, with the light RPG rules and figs) but for myself this has never been the case.

I started with AD&D, and unless I missed something figures where not really mentioned in any great detail. Then Passing into the World of Darkness 2nd edition figures aren't mentioned at all (think they might have been in first, briefly) and due to these two game systems in all Roleplay Games I have done since I have never used figures, even if it wanted me to.

I don't get it if I'm honest, I can only see them as being a massive distraction on the game. Maybe its the style we play, fully in character off the bat. I run all the npc's in character and only roll dice when its entirely neccessary, setting up combats on the fly and not worrying exactly where folks or standing, or the precise distances if guns are used.

So even though I don't get it, I'd be really interested to hear if folks use mini's because the game tells them to, or because they like them. The other reason I ask is I've gamed with folks who used Mini's and after playing in my groups, didn't afterwards as they noted what a difference there was in immersion with the figs off the table.

So what are folks thoughts, I assume I can't be alone in not getting figures and RPG games?

You should have had a more legit neutral choice for me...I guess I'll vote Depends, but rather not. My prefered answer would be - I don't unless I'm running a combat with 6 or more opponents and/or players involved in it.

I played DnD through 2nd and some extensive WoD all without ever using even one mini. Later on I started up some 3.5 with a group that used minis extensively and was able to have a lot of fun with them and later even ran a W:tA game using some minis that was well received.

I really feel it breaks down like this; if your group gets into a lot of combat then you really need minis to help sort outt the battle (especially if you game with 4+ people, since as GM I've hated to have to constantly be explaining whee everyone is and where their opponents are - with minis everyone is up to speed). As you move away from combat oriented missions the need for minis becomes almost non-existent.

I would say if your group has fun with fights you probably would want to use minis, and if your group prefers more verbal encounters then you won't need them.

Bit annoyed I forgot the true Neutral option, can't put in the middle, so stuck it underneath.


As to the models, aye I could see the reasoning behind that call.
Saying that however, I have run many games that where heavy combat orientated (often in Werewolf) and usually with five or six players on a regular basis. Games where several combats would happen in one game, and it was very rare for a game not to have at least one skirmish.

Only in the last year before I moved to Suffolk in mid 04 did it drop down to mostly games with three players. So yes I know it can get hectic in the middle of the fights.

I do have this ability to visulise the combat though, even work out rough distances, so I know round about if someone has to spend a turn moving before the engage etc. I'd also admit in large battles (five/six players facing off against ten or more opponents) I have been known to dot an area on my ST notes sheet so I know roughly where folks are at the start, especially when firearms where involved.
But thats not something that the players would see, and is still much quicker than having to get out and place models, even if prepared.

I think I prefer the ability to have the combat dynamic in game. So maybe a player moves further than the allocated distance and attacks, not really something that worries me overall. I've always been happy to bend the combat rules if it makes the player feel that little bit more heroic in my games.

I still believe that there is a solid line between my RPG games and my wargames where models are concerned. Although I obviously understand some folks would have the opposite view, or don't really care either way.

Every group I've played in has used miniatures, because otherwise we would get over-enthusiastic and end up declaring that we were trying things that, based on our position or the position of other players, NPC's or monsters would be impossible. Of course, many of us back then were also wargamers so we always had plenty of monster minis on hand. I prefer to be able to see everything rather than depend on my rather undependable memory or the vagaries of how other people describe their positions or actions. By the way, most of the mini's we used back then were Ral Partha, but now they would be Reaper. I would only use those D&D prepaints of someone really insisted.

I've always used figures and I put a lot more effort into painting my RPG figures than my wargame figures. The people I played with also liked using figures and usually painted their own.

Given the amount of combat that happens in most RPGs, figures are practically essential for tactical positioning.

Having a nicely painted figure helps bring your character to 3D life.

I sometimes use minis in my DH games, just to show where everything basically is, but normally I dont, unless the players keep asking me where things are or I cant explain everything

We're a wargaming group, so we use miniatures. I've even started building 40K miniatures specifically for Dark Heresy with no intention of using them (or being able to use them) in 40K.

What H.B.M.C. said really, I find myself spending more money on GW, Infinity, Pauldron Machine, Hasslefree and other companies for the sake of hoarding minis for DH and RT games instead of finishing my 40k and fantasy armies.

We never use mini's when playnig DH. I think we just prefer to let our imaginations go with the flow, and so long as the GM has a good grasp of whatever situation the gamers are in, it works out fine

Having GM'd a lot of WFRP, and been a player of various games (DH, Runequest, L5R, Earthdawn etc etc) I think it depends on the situation. Some situations just don't need miniatures.

Some players also treat it more like a game, and forget the roleplaying aspect of it (which is the most important thing, lets not forget) when using miniatures.
Some players need miniatures because they have difficulty keeping track of where everything is and what is going on, especially in situations where the combat can get very complex.

Personally though, I prefer to use miniatures and a nice hex or squares mat and try to use it whenever feasible when GMing.

I've tried both, and both have their advantages. On the whole I prefer not to use them. I don't worry about the precise locations in combat, more about the cinematic potential.
I did find using minis made the combats more technical, and D'n'D 4th works a lot better with them. But it also requires more prep and in a way limits you to what you have in your collection. Also, it can be a sort of "imagination lock" on the players, (ie. this troll is really an ogre, but players forget and keep thinking of and refering to it as a troll).
In college we used to use the blackboards in the tutorial room to draw the combat on, roughly. I've found that to be the best compromise of all, and it's quick and easy and requires little prep. I still like collecting RPG minis "Just in case" but that's more to do with obsessive miniature hoarding than anything else.

Personally, I like Minis... other wise I lose track of where who is, Also I like it because if you *really* want to you can make a Mini for just about every condition, from firing stance to "MY LEG! MY BLOODY LEG!" as was quoted once.

What I do for my group is I let them make/model/paint a miniature to be their "avatar". We don't really use it in the game, but it still gives us a solid visual reference to the character. This is for Dark Heresy, of course. Combat is handled by drawn maps on small graph paper, using sheet-protectors to cover them and drawing player positions with a dry-erase marker. It lets the imagination do more of the work, while still providing a visual reference.

I started playing AD&D 2nd Ed. 20 years ago and I remember back then that we would just be told where everyone was and we said what we did. This worked fine, but I think it did for two reasons:
1.) The combat rules weren't as precise as they are for most games now. (DnD 3.5 being the best 20-sided combat system I have ever seen.)
2.) I think it was more the lack of possessing the right tools for the job (i.e - dry erase maps and models) than our imaginations being much better back then. In other words - we would have used the models if we had them and the combat rules weren't so sloppy.

With that being said, I JUST ordered the Dark heresy rulebook. As I have been playing 40k for about a year now, I have plenty of models to use for gaming purposes and an awesome dry-erase set called "Tact Tiles" from my D&D 3.5 days. I intend to use both to enhance the experience. I am perfectly capable of using my imagination, but models look cool and they do away with PCs asking, "Where am I?"

As another poster said, I have been looking into aquiring, assembling, and painting models specifically for the DH purpose. As of now, I plan on getting the 5-pack of IG models and the 10-pack of cadians as they - mixed with chaos parts - will make excellent mutants/warp beasts. Plus, my wife is consdidering playing the Sisters of Battle, so the extra IG parts will come in handy.

Final Analysis: I say yes to minis. After playing for 20 years over 10 RPG systems, I can honestly say that they enhance the experience while making combat far more tidy than it would be otherwise. Plus - they will give you something to do when you're not playing! How cool would it be for players to be painting their own figs before the next game?

H.B.M.C. wrote:I've even started building 40K miniatures specifically for Dark Heresy with no intention of using them (or being able to use them) in 40K.

I too converted several extra miniatures I had lying around for DH use. I especially liked how "my" character the Tech-Priest turned out ( Bolt pistol, Optical Mechadendrite and Chain-Axe ).

Having some random miniatures help visualize the general situation much better than any drawings or verbal explanations. You don´t need exact hexes, maps or anything for it to work. It helps to avoid any misunderstandings about who is standing behind who ( very important in a gunfight ).

I've been running a variety of cyberpunk campaign games (cyberpunk, both 2013 AND 2020) and shadowrun over the last 20-odd years, and have pretty much only used miniatures to help illustrate a combat situation.

My players like to have their own miniatures that represent their characters. Some of my players have been adequate artists and have drawn sketches instead - but have then gone out and sourced a close-enough model to then customise up into it.

I've made models for my players. It's actually fun converting up Guardsmen and Clerics and whatnot.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Over the years I've seen many folks speak on forums on using models for their RPG games. Modern D&D almost seems geared up for them now due to the figures they sell, (in fact I almost weapt when I saw the starter box, with the light RPG rules and figs) but for myself this has never been the case.

I started with AD&D, and unless I missed something figures where not really mentioned in any great detail. Then Passing into the World of Darkness 2nd edition figures aren't mentioned at all (think they might have been in first, briefly) and due to these two game systems in all Roleplay Games I have done since I have never used figures, even if it wanted me to.

I don't get it if I'm honest, I can only see them as being a massive distraction on the game. Maybe its the style we play, fully in character off the bat. I run all the npc's in character and only roll dice when its entirely neccessary, setting up combats on the fly and not worrying exactly where folks or standing, or the precise distances if guns are used.

So even though I don't get it, I'd be really interested to hear if folks use mini's because the game tells them to, or because they like them. The other reason I ask is I've gamed with folks who used Mini's and after playing in my groups, didn't afterwards as they noted what a difference there was in immersion with the figs off the table.

So what are folks thoughts, I assume I can't be alone in not getting figures and RPG games?

In our games we don;t use them in anything but DH, 3.5, 4E, Scion and SAS. everything else we use our imaginations. I like them though. I can't draw to save my life so using a mini to dictate what my character looks like on the field and me giving a intricate description for what his appearance is makes it much much easier.

c34r34lk1ll3r wrote:
In our games we don;t use them in anything but DH, 3.5, 4E, Scion and SAS. everything else we use our imaginations. I like them though. I can't draw to save my life so using a mini to dictate what my character looks like on the field and me giving a intricate description for what his appearance is makes it much much easier.

Man...I wish I played games this much.......

I envy you, dude.

Mini's every time. Well, 99% of the time, the other 1% we'll just write the initials on the map, but that tends to be in shorter games. It just makes knowing where everything is that little bit easier, we've tried having no map, but people always misinterpret where stuff is.

The combat we're currently in in our Mage game is up on a whiteboard, but thats because it involves 8 mages (7 of whom are the cabal), 2 werewolves, 2 mummies (one of whom is the god Horus), Sehkmet, Set, 20 vampires in various states of intactness and the Paradox spirit of Forces, which is a sentient black hole. Oh, and the angel Aziraphale.

No way do we have the models for that, plus its already been two sessions and Set still isn't dead. If we were using minis, it'd take half an hour to set the damn thing up each week.

Dragonlover