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After playing for a few years I've decided to challenge myself , and what better army for that than daemonhunters. However since i've only ever looked at the codex once what would be the best list for 1000 points? And after a 1000 points the best way to expand it? Any advice is welcome.

How would you define "Best List"? Honestly, everything in the DH codex is terribly overpriced, especially thanks to codex creep over the past ten years or so. That's a long time to be out of commission.

Considering a 5-man squad of naked GK is 250pts, there's not a whole lot of variety to be had at 1k. Even when you get to higher numbers you're still looking at a BC, some GKs, most likely a Land Raider or two, and that's about it.

i'd wait the 6 months to 10 years for the new dex. It'll be more worth your time, and money. trust me, i play DH at 1500 pts. I field 10 stormtroopers, 6 termies 5 PAGK an inquisitor, a vindicare and 2 dreads. thats around 20 models in all on the table. I'm playing orks till the new dex.

If your really deadset on DH rightnow, (GK do look awesome) then i'd go
HQ: BC, null rod with 4 termies 2 psycannonn (one on BC) 320 pts
elites: BC with 4 termies 1 psycannon 270 pts
troops: 10 stormtroopers meltagun x2 chimera heavy flamer x2 205 pts
10 storm troopers plasmagun x2 chimera muiltilaser heavy bolter 205pts
total: 1000

damn, kinda like that list. maybe i should run it

Well at 1000pts you're looking at just the "core" of a daemonhunter army. What is the core of a daemonhunter army??? Land Raiders and GK's so I would start there. They will almost always be in your army, so expanding your army you won't be wasting money on models you'll never use.

HQ

Brother-Captain
Psycannon
91pts

TROOP

5 GK + Justicar
2 Incinerators
195pts

5 GK + Justicar
2 Incinerators
195pts

HEAVY

Land Raider Crusader
Smoke
Searchlight
259pts

Land Raider
Extra Armor
Smoke
Searchlight
259pts

Total 999

Not real fond of PAGK anymore myself. Too much points for too few dudes. I think using stormtroopers with shooty guns is a better way to stay alive. Flyinmiata1 has a point though, land raiders ravage just about everything! 14 av on all sides, YEEESH! Don't like the crusader for GK though, regular LR are more shooty due to las, and DH should try to stay shooty until counter assault time. Your men cost to much to risk on trying to be agressive. Rule #1 of playing DH: patience, caution and endurance! maybe this list is better?

HQ: BC with 4 termies 2 psycannonn (one on BC) 300 pts
heavy support: landraider, extra armor 255 points
troops: 10 stormtroopers meltagun x2 chimera heavy flamer x2 205 pts
10 storm troopers plasmagun x2 chimera muiltilaser heavy bolter 205pts
total: 965 fill up extra points as desired

@Norwulf: You can't take a null rod on a BC. That's only available for inquisitors - maybe only inquisitor lords.


I would suggest to get some Grey Knight Terminators, some regular Grey Knights, possibly a Dreadnought and a Land raider/Land Raider Crusader or 2. This will be your basic list. Even after the new codex (whenever that might be - check the rumor boards for more info) you'll still have the basic models that look awesome.

I'm currently starting up an army but taking my time with it and converting them a ton. I'm working on a dreadnought now just because I love the look of them.

rogueeyes wrote:@Norwulf: You can't take a null rod on a BC. That's only available for inquisitors - maybe only inquisitor lords.

Your right, how'd i miss that?

grey knight dreads are really cool, i run 2 myself. Land raiders might be the better choice here though, it's a tough call.

At 1000 points tho, i'd be more concerned with scoring units, (troops) which DH are lacking in. PAGK look cool, but after playing with them a bunch, i wish i had bought more stormtroopers. Not because they are a superior unit, but because they cost so much less, giving you more objective holders. PAGK play out just like regular SM most of the time, (not counting counter assault, this is where they excel). You could pay 150 points for 5 PAGK or put those points into 10 man tac squad of SM with better guns +gear, Or buy 15 Stormtroopers for that.

I keep going back and forth between if I should buy Stormtroopers or PAGKs. I have a box of GKTs coming in tomorrow. I'll probably get a Dread and another set of GKTs and posisbly a LandRaider. I play 1500 Points. I have a hard enough time getting a list together for that point size rather than trying to find a list for 1000 Points.

A Rhino with 5 Stormtroopers + 2 Meltas comes in at about 120 Pts. Add Smoke and Extra Armor and you get 128. 22 Points less than a basic squad of PAGKs.

One of my possible builds:
GKGM with Icon of Just, Unguents of Warding, NFW, Power Weapon, Scourging retinue of Terminators with 2x TH and SS (537)
5 Stormtroopers with 2x Melta, Rhino With Smoke and EA (128)
5 Stormtroopers with 2x Melta, Rhino With Smoke and EA (128)
5 Stormtroopers with 2x Melta, Rhino With Smoke and EA (128)
Dread with ML and TL Lascannon, EA and Smoke (148)
Dread with ML and TL Lascannon, EA and Smoke (148)
LRC With Dozer Blade, PMSB, Psycannon Bolts, and Smoke (283)
1500 Points in all

You could subtract a few Terminators, a squad of stormies, a Dread and end up with about a 1000 points.

Well, when I think Daemonhunters I think Grey Knights, not Stormtroopers. Daemonhunters was my first army, and the one I have the most points of. Land Raiders are practically a must as far as transports go, because you can't get any dedicated unless you use STs.. and at that point, might as well just play guard and ally Grey Knights in.

At 1000 points I'd say you're looking at the 3 dreads layout unless you want to tick everyone you play off and drop Land Raiders on them. I'd say get your Bro Cap with a small retinue and then get PAGKs and three dreads to start if you're looking at doing this. 1000 points you should fair somewhat well.. although no matter how you play it you'll always be out-numbered so get used to it.

Matt1785 wrote:. although no matter how you play it you'll always be out-numbered so get used to it.

True, thats why I try to even out the numbers with ST. However another option you have is allying with IG or SM or WH, i hear any of these options will make your army more competitive. IG + DH is probably the better of the three, but i havent tried it. One thing I will do sometimes is ally my DH with my small force of Space marines, its just the (AOBR force), but it works out fairly well. It helps add some bodies and shootiness to my army. If you decide to use allies though i recomend guard or witch hunters.

I've actually thought about allying WH with DH just to get the Exorcist. Your main troop would be SoB in 10 or 20 strong troops. Add in Exorcist Tank and then take GKTs with a GM or BC.

please whatever you do, don't waste your money on a dreadnought! in a GK army they don't hold their value. Probably the worst purchase in the entire codex!!! Land raiders, land raiders, land raiders!!!

U want really gross????

2000pt army with 6 land raiders...

HQ

Inquisitor + Retinue - dedicated LR
Brother Captain

ELITE

Inquisitor + Retinue - dedicated LR
Inquisitor + Retinue - dedicated LR

Heavy

LR
LR
LR

Rest of army geared stormtroopers in rhinos

Hrm, well that last list looks pretty corny to me. I like to see it as, just because you can do something.. doesn't mean you should. That list makes practically no fluff sense... And you can't field Grey Knight Land Raiders without a hero.. so it's not even legal.

In small points games of 1000 dreads are nice, and I like making Dreads to Grey Knights anyway, and you can be competitive in small games with Dreads only. Land Raiders are great, but I still like the variety that dreads give you.

to make it legal....run the BC as well and 6 land raiders :p...either way GL. In a 1000pt game i'll still take 2 land raiders than dreadnoughts.

Why is there so much love for the incinerator? Or any flamer for that matter? I have never found a situation where an incinerator is better than a psycannon.

what type of army do GK's have the most troubles with??? horde armies. Incinerators even that up a little bit.

You can't shoot your psycannons when riding in a land raider, so it's range is negated.

Tank Shock units to get them in a line, deploy your PAGK's with incinerators up front....flame on and roll to wound. How nice to have a squad of like 20-30 ork boyz all crumped up in a nice little line for 2 flamer templates (maybe get 8-12 boyz in that template x2, 3's to kill...lots of dead orks...2 psycannons can kill 6 at max), no saves even if eavy' armor'd & cybork bodied nobz or warboss, and no cover. Finish your bolter shots and assault to mop up IF anything is left alive. Tau Kroot, Orks, and Nids fear this

Nothing like taking out a full 30 boy squad before they can even attack.

The GK dreadnought can be a bargain compared to SM ones. 2 pts cheaper for a GK dread with Assault Cannon & smoke launchers, and it has +1 WS too, making a significant difference to how effective it is in CC.

6 land raiders?! bitchin!! I'd love to try this.

rogueeyes wrote:I've actually thought about allying WH with DH just to get the Exorcist. Your main troop would be SoB in 10 or 20 strong troops. Add in Exorcist Tank and then take GKTs with a GM or BC.

You'd have to use Codex WH as your base, because there are no HS slots available for allied troops. That's not much of a problem, as a cannoness is cheap as hell.

Flyinmiata1 wrote:what type of army do GK's have the most troubles with??? horde armies. Incinerators even that up a little bit.

So does Holocaust on a BC or GM, especially vs. Orks. No retreat is amusing vs. 6+ saves. Incinerator beats Psycannon in 5th ed.

I'll take all those incinerators compared to only relying on holocaust that can also kill my own units. Though taking holocaust isn't a bad choice on top of the incinerators. Though with the limited model numbers you have I'd not risk killing your own units.

And ya running 6 LRs would be quite funny. 3 land raiders and 3 crusaders :p. You can even do this in a 1750pt army for a tourney. Run 2 mystics w/ each Inquisitor in the normal land raiders and now those deep striking units go bye bye before they can do anything . Of course you're hurting in troop choices but hey who cares lol, just table them w/ LR firepower!!!

@Flyinmiata1

Your list is completely invalid. You have to take troops. Sure you can get away with cheap ones but please post valid lists instead of spamming a spam list. It does not good for those asking for help.

In 1500 points I can fit 2 LR\LRCs in but it gets tough. 2 dreadnoughts cost about the same amount depending on the configuration. Also I enjoy the look of dreadnoughts. Part of the game is about fluff not just winning but having fun when you win.

rogueeyes wrote: Also I enjoy the look of dreadnoughts. Part of the game is about fluff not just winning but having fun when you win.

That's Goddamn beuatiful man...

But really, holocaust will do you pretty well vs. a horde, but is no replacement for incinerators.

Land Raiders can hold 5 man troops choices very well, which essentially is an upgrade to make them scoring units, which is awesome.

Dreads can pack more firepower per point, but don't get to hide scoring troops inside of them. Your choice.

Also just to ask, is it worth adding inducted guard to make up the numbers? Just a platoon with some cheap upgrades.

Rogue...The list is completely 100% valid....so before you run your mouth again try reading through the ENTIRE thread....

You can run 6 land raiders in a 2000pt game...As I stated before, you have enough points to toss in stormtrooper squads (Troops) in rhinos.

In the original post I forgot to add the BC to the list to make it legal and it was brought up and fixed.

Whether YOU like the list or not is mute...

The key to having a fighting chance with pure grey knights, in my experience, is maxing out LR's.

3 LR's with a squad of PAGT's in each or 2 and one Termie squad and you have a tough nut to crack. You can be very successful with this army and it isn't such an uphill battle as it was last edition.

Since your infantry will be inside the LR's most of the game, your army is immune to a large chunk of the other guy's army. If anything threatening comes close, such as melta weapons or powerful assault units, charge them with the GK squads inside as you will have a really big reach.

If you play right, you will win through attrition, taking out the things that can hurt your LR's from a distance (go all regular LR's) and ignore the things that can't hurt you, then late game play for objectives.

I have seen players use these tactic to win regularly with GK's. The only real threat is fast or deep striking melta weapons.

Good luck with it, GK's are a very cool and great looking army. Plus you get a lot of respect for winning with them. Kind of like the way my IG were last edition. Now anyone with half assed decent list building skill can make a tough IG army, but hey, that is a discussion for another day.

Ignore these half-assed people.

Any army can be effective it's all about how you use the army,and remember you can use Guard and Marines as allys so you're not behind in the metagame,it's all about synergy in the units aswell.

Your best bet is to go looking into the tactica's in other forums for advice on effective builds.

Whether or not your list was valid or not is a moot point. I missed the stormtroopers at the end but at the same time that's near apocalypse in point value. Also, you missed the Grey Knight Hero.

In 1750 Points you can barely do 6 landraiders. You have to be very slim on the troops (5x ST and mount in a LR). Throw your GKH in a LR. And your Inquisitors get one mystic. Maybe a second for one of them.



@OP:
Try different units and put together a list that you enjoy modelling and enjoy playing.

LR spam gets boring and quite frankly it's that hard to beat since a ton of your army is very weak. I can beat LR spam with my Tau quite effectively. IG most likely will destroy LR spam as well. The problem becomes that you are geared towards one end of the spectrum and you end up losing out on other areas.

Farmer wrote:Ignore these half-assed people..

Right, listen to Hello Kitty for tactical advice instead....

LR spam gets boring and quite frankly it's that hard to beat since a ton of your army is very weak. I can beat LR spam with my Tau quite effectively. IG most likely will destroy LR spam as well. The problem becomes that you are geared towards one end of the spectrum and you end up losing out on other areas.

LR spam is hardly weak, but you are welcome to your onion.

When you render the majority of your enemy's army ineffective, then you have given yourself a big advantage. Yes, Railgun heavy Tau is good against this build, but that is so painfully obvious it hardly bears mentioning. That is like saying water is good for putting out a fire. Duh.

As for IG, I play a savage, melta heavy IG mech list, and I used to play a regular opponent who played the list I am describing, and it was always a very tough game. He was a good player and his list was vulnerable to only a few of my units, which he obviously focused on. He won far more than he lost against a good group of skilled players with a wide variety of armies.

As for the rest of the army being weak, you are very wrong. You come close to these LR's and you get hit with a full strength GK assault form multiple units. Not many units in the game can stand against that apart form the most powerful assault units. Even a full squad of Nob Bikers gets beaten more often that not by this combo (we ran the math often, but the problem was the second squad of Nob bikers, as it always is, but that is another topic).

What would you suggest would be a better build for Grey Knights than this? I am all ears.

Land Raider Spam with GKT is great. But I was talking about only taking Land Raiders for Land Raider Spam.

Pair a Grand Master with 7 GKTs in a Landraider and go to town. This is actually a list I'm trying to build currently. If the dreadnoughts are far away and just shooting at their max 48" range and a LR is barreling down on the opponent I think they will focus on the larger threat and the Dreadnoughts will be left alone to rack up a ton of damage by providing covering fire and taking out transports.

All Landraiders with no GKT < LRC full of GKTs

That's my major point. Better yet

2 LRs with 5 GKT each I would say is better than a LRC with 8 GKTs because you have twice the chance of getting into assault and can engage more than 1 unit (unless they are all bunch up together and you can get a multi-unit assault going on).

I agree that the LR GK is a great combo, however, I feel to really get the most effect out of the LR's, you need to max them out. The reason why is that with 3, you are pretty much assured to get them across the board. With one, it is far too easy for your enemy to focus fire on it and take it out early. 3 is going to overload your opponent's ability to deal with them. Plus, you can play all sorts of meta game tricks with them like tank shocking enemy units into formation to flame them or assault limited numbers of them. They also provide cover for one another when you have 3 LR's. Remember, 2 tanks is four time as effective as 1, not just twice as much. 2 tanks is twice the firepower AND twice the survivability.

I love Dreads, they look great in a GK list, however, they are simply less effective than a LR and compete for that all important HS slot in the list. The LR gives so much more to the list overall than a Dread does. In a pure efficiency comparison, the LR just outperforms the Dread. From a fluff or aesthetic comparison, I like having a dread in there too, but that is purely subjective and do nothing to improve the list's in game performance. It is a shame the Dreads aren't an elite choice.

As for your idea that the Dread will be ignored in favor of the LR, I have to disagree. Why? A lot of weapons are wasted on the LR. I would fire all my non AP1, Str 9 and lower weapons at the Dread first as it would be easier to take that threat out quickly and eliminate a lot of the GK player's firepower. I normally ignore LR's if I can, shooting them is usually a waste of firepower. That is why a 3 LR list is so tough to beat, they just ignore most of the guns in the other list.