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Just use the index version.

 daedalus wrote:
Just use the index version.

I was wondering about that. Doesn't the existence of the codex override the index, though? Or do you get to decide which rules you use?

daedalus wrote:Just use the index version.

necron99 wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
Just use the index version.

I was wondering about that. Doesn't the existence of the codex override the index, though? Or do you get to decide which rules you use?

I thought the entry in the Codex overrode the entry in the Index?

 necron99 wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
Just use the index version.

I was wondering about that. Doesn't the existence of the codex override the index, though? Or do you get to decide which rules you use?

You can do whatever you want in a personal game, but tournaments will generally expect you to use the updated codex versions. They keep talking about updating the digital indexes to match the codexes, but haven't seen it happen yet.

The enginseer is still the same for guard. GW just gave admech an HQ version to make up for their lack of HQs. Ours is still an elite choice.

 Chris521 wrote:
The enginseer is still the same for guard. GW just gave admech an HQ version to make up for their lack of HQs. Ours is still an elite choice.

Is that... can it be proven?

He is an HQ now. You always use the most recent copy of a data slate.

 jifel wrote:
He is an HQ now. You always use the most recent copy of a data slate.

It isn't that he is an HQ. It is that he isn't Astra Militarum

I'm going to dump my conscripts from tournament play. They are fantastically efficient. FRFSRF does way more for 50 conscripts than 10 regular infantry along with other buffs such as harker or a sabre spotlight if an opponent is foolish enough not to prioritize spotlights. That being said conscripts have some serious flaws in timed tournament play.

#1) they play too slow, too many dice to roll, too many models to move, too much time to count how many models are in double tap range. That's a big deal in a timed tournament.

#2 3+ goes to 2+ in cover. -1 to hit is also prolific. Either causes the average number of dice to wound t4 T5 3+ to go from 27 to 54, both as in the case of concealed wraithguard cause it to go to 108 dice to cause a wound. This compounds problem #1 Wraithguard are also very good at killing guardsmen.

#3 Commissars are a vulnerable lynch pin that will draw sniper fire. They can be kept safe by hiding them out of line of sight and konga lining conscripts back to the commissar, but that compounds problem #1

Final verdict: I'm giving up on conscripts not because they don't win (they win), but because they will never see the end of turn 5 in a tournament, and the end of turn 4 is as rare as a 4 leaf clover.

 schadenfreude wrote:
I'm going to dump my conscripts from tournament play. They are fantastically efficient. FRFSRF does way more for 50 conscripts than 10 regular infantry along with other buffs such as harker or a sabre spotlight if an opponent is foolish enough not to prioritize spotlights. That being said conscripts have some serious flaws in timed tournament play.

#1) they play too slow, too many dice to roll, too many models to move, too much time to count how many models are in double tap range. That's a big deal in a timed tournament.

#2 3+ goes to 2+ in cover. -1 to hit is also prolific. Either causes the average number of dice to wound t4 T5 3+ to go from 27 to 54, both as in the case of concealed wraithguard cause it to go to 108 dice to cause a wound. This compounds problem #1 Wraithguard are also very good at killing guardsmen.

#3 Commissars are a vulnerable lynch pin that will draw sniper fire. They can be kept safe by hiding them out of line of sight and konga lining conscripts back to the commissar, but that compounds problem #1

Final verdict: I'm giving up on conscripts not because they don't win (they win), but because they will never see the end of turn 5 in a tournament, and the end of turn 4 is as rare as a 4 leaf clover.

I've also thought about dropping my conscript squads, but I think I'm going to hold out until the codex drops to make any final decisions.

GW has stated that codex replaces index. Index is for units that aren't in the codex.

Wrong thread?

 Stus67 wrote:
Wrong thread?

There was a discussion earlier about Tech priests losing their 'Astra Militarum' key word due to the new Adeptus Mechanicus codex with them becoming new HQ choices.

Many were pondering if the same happens for us, that we could use the index instead of the codex. But tournament rules use codex only, and as such codex>index.

So, not wrong thread, just lacking context mein dear chap.

That kinda sucks for me. I don't play admech but I do have a tech-priest in my list. So now I have to go out and buy a codex for one model :(

Might just switch back to a MOO

So the Catachan preview is up. Doctrine is quite unique, while the S bonus is a bit of an edge case, the free standard on every officer is pretty sweet and the re-roll on blast weapons is awesome. Especially on the basilisk: roll 2d6, take the highest, then re-roll the other one to try to beat it.

Also, looks like we're going to have 8 alternate orders to pick from, but they haven't elaborated on what it actually does. An infantry squad, a flamer squad, Straken, a priest, and an officer might make a surprisingly strong burn-and-bash group though.

Yeah. The 2nd Concordian Independent Superheavy Tank Regiment will find a excellent excellent way to move forwards. It should be a blast.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
It should be a blast.

I see what you did there.

I am rather excited to see what other stratagems and special traits will exist for the other regiments, seeing how strong the Catachans' can potentially be. I don't really think tank heavy Catachans are particularly fluffy, but I'm sure we'll see more of that.

With regards to the Techpriest discussion, I am just hoping IG gets either their own entry for that unit, or something functionally identical yet unique to our codex that serves the same vehicle repair duties.

And, I honestly hope they don't go *too* hard on conscripts. I think the inability to take orders and Commissars having to BLAM d3 of them as opposed to just 1, a la Warboss, would be pretty reasonable, especially for pure IG lists. Perhaps Commissars will have to babysit a single unit at a time, as opposed to having a bubble huge conscript units can daisy-chain towards. I think the real problem, however, comes when conscripts are run in an Imperium soup; 200 cheap 3 point bodies with a Commissar screening an otherwise super-friends/Herohammer list is the real dirty trick (or, at least, the dirtiest of several dirty conscript tricks).

 ross-128 wrote:
So the Catachan preview is up. Doctrine is quite unique, while the S bonus is a bit of an edge case, the free standard on every officer is pretty sweet and the re-roll on blast weapons is awesome. Especially on the basilisk: roll 2d6, take the highest, then re-roll the other one to try to beat it.

Also, looks like we're going to have 8 alternate orders to pick from, but they haven't elaborated on what it actually does. An infantry squad, a flamer squad, Straken, a priest, and an officer might make a surprisingly strong burn-and-bash group though.

Straken being S7 is neat. This will make him better against monsters and light vehicles, but what he really suffers from is a low AP weapon.

Overall, I'm excited--especially for my basilisks and Shadowsword muahaha. Happy that flamers will get buffed since I have so damn many of them!

Like the booby trap rule, but still hoping against hope that they get a stealth-type rule.

2nd the stealth rule. Any guard with a -1 to hit would be scary.

As exciting as the new codex is, I have a GT coming up that won't be using it, and so had a question for the group. In a competitive setting, what non-AM units have you founf best supplement the Astra Militarum? right now Im taking Celestine, a Culexis and an Inquisitor as my only non-AM models. The inquisitor I just see as a 15 point upgrade to one of my Primaris Psykers that nets me a new set of psychic powers, as I figured the first 3 had Telethesia covered. Mental Fortitude seems useful in the event that my opponent manages to snipe out a Commissar, while Terrify is also quite useful for shutting down a units overwtach if I need to charge it to tie it up. Anyone else using an Inquisitor in their guard lists? I dont see them much, but I like to have power options besides Smite, even if smite is what Im gonna be using 90% of the time.

I do wonder if they will put Enginseers to Astra Militarum-codex as well. As an elite choice, of course.

I mean, c'mon. Enginseers have been staples of IG/AM since... forever.

 jifel wrote:
As exciting as the new codex is, I have a GT coming up that won't be using it, and so had a question for the group. In a competitive setting, what non-AM units have you founf best supplement the Astra Militarum? right now Im taking Celestine, a Culexis and an Inquisitor as my only non-AM models. The inquisitor I just see as a 15 point upgrade to one of my Primaris Psykers that nets me a new set of psychic powers, as I figured the first 3 had Telethesia covered. Mental Fortitude seems useful in the event that my opponent manages to snipe out a Commissar, while Terrify is also quite useful for shutting down a units overwtach if I need to charge it to tie it up. Anyone else using an Inquisitor in their guard lists? I dont see them much, but I like to have power options besides Smite, even if smite is what Im gonna be using 90% of the time.

I use an inquisitor as my warlord. AM doesn't have great deny the witch abilities, so the vanilla inquisitor is worth the points.I find Tech-Priest enginseers to be invaluable, even if I had to change my Vanguard Formation to a Supreme Command formation to make them fit. Nothing like bringing a Leman Russ to full health after enemy infantry throws everything they've got at it.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 jifel wrote:
As exciting as the new codex is, I have a GT coming up that won't be using it, and so had a question for the group. In a competitive setting, what non-AM units have you founf best supplement the Astra Militarum? right now Im taking Celestine, a Culexis and an Inquisitor as my only non-AM models. The inquisitor I just see as a 15 point upgrade to one of my Primaris Psykers that nets me a new set of psychic powers, as I figured the first 3 had Telethesia covered. Mental Fortitude seems useful in the event that my opponent manages to snipe out a Commissar, while Terrify is also quite useful for shutting down a units overwtach if I need to charge it to tie it up. Anyone else using an Inquisitor in their guard lists? I dont see them much, but I like to have power options besides Smite, even if smite is what Im gonna be using 90% of the time.

I use an inquisitor as my warlord. AM doesn't have great deny the witch abilities, so the vanilla inquisitor is worth the points.I find Tech-Priest enginseers to be invaluable, even if I had to change my Vanguard Formation to a Supreme Command formation to make them fit. Nothing like bringing a Leman Russ to full health after enemy infantry throws everything they've got at it.

An extra 1-3 wounds is hardly "full health"

If you want to repair something multiple times, use Atlases. They stack.

Mordians are good.

Leman russes are fething amazing now

Yea I saw all leman russes will have a points decrease and if moved at half speed can fire twice. They might have finally made leman russes good!

 jifel wrote:
As exciting as the new codex is, I have a GT coming up that won't be using it, and so had a question for the group. In a competitive setting, what non-AM units have you founf best supplement the Astra Militarum? right now Im taking Celestine, a Culexis and an Inquisitor as my only non-AM models. The inquisitor I just see as a 15 point upgrade to one of my Primaris Psykers that nets me a new set of psychic powers, as I figured the first 3 had Telethesia covered. Mental Fortitude seems useful in the event that my opponent manages to snipe out a Commissar, while Terrify is also quite useful for shutting down a units overwtach if I need to charge it to tie it up. Anyone else using an Inquisitor in their guard lists? I dont see them much, but I like to have power options besides Smite, even if smite is what Im gonna be using 90% of the time.

Assassins in general are quite handy. I need to get more. Way more.

I also like to use Custodes. Sure, they cost a lot of points but they kind of throw a curveball to the enemy who is expecting to kill GEQs only. Also? They are utterly lethal in close combat, which is something that guardsmen are not. Normal marines fear to challenge the golden boys to a sword fight.

I feel like the rules interaction between Catachan Regiment ability, and the Leman Russ buff are just enormous. I would say they aren't only improved, but that they are absolutely a top-tier competitive choice again.

Here's an interesting question: since a LRBT benefitting from grinding advance fires the turret weapon two separate times instead of just changing the RoF on the profile, can the two shots be fired at different targets? Can you re-roll both blasts if you're Catachan?

 ross-128 wrote:
Here's an interesting question: since a LRBT benefitting from grinding advance fires the turret weapon two separate times instead of just changing the RoF on the profile, can the two shots be fired at different targets? Can you re-roll both blasts if you're Catachan?

It explicitly says in Grinding Advance that the Russ's cannon must fire at the same target, and also that it is two separate shots.

So...how about LR annihilators with double tap.