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After my recent fight with the eldar (see report) - as a newby it seems to me that a unit which has 24" assault weapon 2 and a warscythe which doesn't allow armour or invulnerability saves is pretty good and certainly handy. Add to that the psychic attack and giving everyone Ld7 within 12" and its even nicer.

I realise there is no WBB for these, they don't count for phaseout and at over 35 points each they are expensive ... but I still have rarely (if ever) heard anyone say anything good about these.

Does anyone at the esteemed Dakka had any experiences of playing with them or against them? How did you find them?

Fletcher wrote:I realise there is no WBB for these, they don't count for phaseout and at over 35 points each they are expensive ...

I think that actually sums up most of the problems rather well. Phase Out is a rather large draw back, and Pariahs do not help avoid it.

Not really a YMDC thread...but

They really are over costed. Easily killable before they get into assault. You cannot even 'port them in with the Monolith so you really have no choice but to just drop them on the table and march them up while taking a volley of shots from your enemy. Any good player will be able to keep units he wants to keep out of CC away from them.

Too Expensive, don;t count towards Phase out and no WBB.

I concur with Axyl. If the Pariah's at least came with a dedicated transport (or the Necrons had a transport vehicle) they could be much more potent and playable. As it stands now they're awfully expensive for a unit that it is not too difficult to outmaneuver/avoid/get first strike on with any other army out there.

Though if they gave them the Necron trait I'd probably play them as the WBB and ability to teleport them around would make them much more survivable.

LOL - OK so it looks like I hit the spot with the bad bits. I just thought maybe a small unit would be good. I've just read that they can't be ported either though (with VoD) so thats not good either.

Just trying to think of things to take out those eldar tanks with their saves. It just meant my glances were even harder to get. There is no way I fancy a heavy destroyer (as they just seem to be kill points waiting to happen) ... my only other choice is a monolith isn't it?

People bitch about phase-out... just ignore them.

Pariah are good in phalanx-cored armies.
I've had the most success with pariahs in groups of 4-6. (4 in 1500 / 6 in 1850)

They're a shooting unit, not close combat.
Keep repeating that, followed by: They are not a counter-charge unit.

What pariahs do well is:
Reduce the leadership of the unit approaching the 10 strong Immortal squad with the nightmare shroud. (the pariahs are handily behind this unit)
Pick a unit that's within the pariah range.
Shoot it a lot, or enough to cause a moral check at the end of the shooting phase.
Nightmare shroud.
If they fail the shroud Ld check they fall back twice in the shooting phase.
Which is great against all sorts of units.

Normally I set the Phalanx up like so:
[Lord(Orb) + Lord (Gaze/Shroud) + Immortals x10]
[Spyder] / [Pariahs x4] / [Immortals x5]
[Warriors x10]

Remember gauss blasters are 24" range, and most transports move 12".

Anti-tank with Necrons is somewhat limited to C'Tan or glancing with Warriors/Immortals/Destroyers or the Particle Whip from the Monolith. I suspect you are a wise man to question the viability of H. Destroyers.

If they had WBB or cost 25pts they'd be worth it (also the base price is 36 not 35). For less you get Immortals who have the same gun and WBB. Oh and you can only take one unit.

The only way these guy could really work is if they were a sort of Sargent for the other squads. Ok loose the "Psychic Abomination" (keep "Soul Less")

Belphegor wrote:Remember gauss blasters are 24" range, and most transports move 12".

Interesting battle plan. How do you deal with fast open topped transports (like DE Raiders or Ork Truks)?

On the side rail:

Use Warriors vs. tanks.
Suppression is the most cost effective solution with 5th edition.

Heavy Destroyers are points that could be used for more durable units.

Only A1 with an obviously CC-geared unit is also gak. However, they're a nice counter to the Eldar jetlock, but only if they can get close enough. Since they're not Necrons you can't VoD them with a Lord or port them with a 'lith, so their mobility is close to nil.

I'd love to see them get A2 or count as necrons in future codex (if it ever gets done) but they'd be very awesome if given Destroyer bodies as an option.

mantra:
This is a shooting unit, not close combat.
They are not a counter-charge unit.
If charge with this unit, it will fail.
I will use this unit in conjunction with other units.

Use other units to saturate the target with fire.
The pariahs will cause them to fall back.
The Lord will cause them to fall back further.
The scarabs will walk the falling back units off the board.

Belphegor wrote:mantra:
This is a shooting unit, not close combat.
They are not a counter-charge unit.
If charge with this unit, it will fail.
I will use this unit in conjunction with other units.
This is a dead parrot

Use other units to saturate the target with fire.
The pariahs will cause them to fall back.
The Lord will cause them to fall back further.
The scarabs will walk the falling back units off the board.

Look, I took the liberty of examining that parrot when I got it home, and I discovered the only reason that it had been sitting on its perch in the first place was that it had been NAILED there ... It doesn't mater which army i look at i just laugh at them they are a wast of points. On paper they've got these amazing rules ... on the table they die

The second rail:

Thor665: Interesting battle plan. How do you deal with fast open topped transports (like DE Raiders or Ork Truks)?

A 13"-16" inch Monolith wall.
Destroyers for the first round of fire.
Warriors/Immortals/Pariahs for the second.

Heavy destroyers (at full slots) can only handle 3 transports.
If your depending on HDs for that role, then you'll be eating the other 3 transports.

Also they can only kill three models each, tops.
So after one of those assault units eat a squad of warriors, their return fire will be weak.

Also that unit of Heavy Destroyers costs as much as a Lord with Veil.
That lord can give more mobility to another unit than the H-Destroyers have themselves.

I might take them if I could get units of 5.
As a single unit in the army focused on killing Wraithlords and Fexes.
But other than that, points are better spent elsewhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tri: On paper they've got these amazing rules ... on the table they die

On the table I use them to collapse marine drop armies.
You still know fear within 6" on an enemy model.

Oh, and they make the Deceiver sick-sticks with cheese.
It's always nice to have the option to make someone fallback three times in the same shooting phase.
Especially if opponent paid the points for a Ld10 unit.

Belphegor wrote:The second rail:

Thor665: Interesting battle plan. How do you deal with fast open topped transports (like DE Raiders or Ork Truks)?

Heavy destroyers (at full slots) can only handle 3 transports.
If your depending on HDs for that role, then you'll be eating the other 3 transports.

I shall certainly agree with you that H. Destroyers are not worth taking and said as much in my first post in this thread.

the second rail:

Thor665: I shall certainly agree with you that H. Destroyers are not worth taking and said as much in my first post in this thread.

Oops, sorry. Bouncing between screens at work.
My apologies to the thread for not being mindful.

Belphegor wrote:

Tri: On paper they've got these amazing rules ... on the table they die

On the table I use them to collapse marine drop armies.
You still know fear within 6" on an enemy model.

Oh, and they make the Deceiver sick-sticks with cheese.
It's always nice to have the option to make someone fallback three times in the same shooting phase.
Especially if opponent paid the points for a Ld10 unit.
.

Wait what? A drop pod arm is more then capable of take that list. If you are having an easy time then the people you're playing are doing some thing wrong. I can think of dozens of ways to get round it. I mean some of the main problems are that . . .
Firstly you are spending at least 854pts on non necrons even in 2000pts games that's going to hurt. Aiming for phase out is the simplest method to beat you.
Secondly an all pod SM army is going to be bring a multitude of things to hurt you. For example stern guard rapid firing Str4 aP3, Assault terminators, hell against necrons the deathwind launcher in the drop pods would be a laugh. There little you can do against it other then stunning.
Thirdly for this army to work your going to be moving your units rather close together ... It looks more or less like perfect enemy to fight with devastators and 4 Plasma cannons.
Fourth is null zone librarian and Stern guard. C'tan are big and strong but they've only got a 4+ inv save. Null zone is passed they'll dish out 8+ wounds. If not they still manage 5+ ... wait he's only got 5 wounds what a shame.

Yep, Necrons are an uphill battle.

One of the reasons I talk about ignoring what people say about phase-out is because if you only have 25% of your force left on the table you've lost already anyway.
854 for the core of a necron army is not a concern
854 is only 394 over the mandatory selections for the army
and if your using the Deceiver as your primary HQ it only 194 points over that.

Assault Terminators
I'd rather face assault terminators rather than standard terminators.
Standard terminators are just as effective in close combat as ATs to necrons, and they shoot.
Assault Terminators never use their cool 3+ iSv, since necrons don't have much AP2.
Necrons players rejoice when assault terminators hit the table, since they could have been more effective if they where something else.

Sternguard
Drop pod armies are just as clustered as the core of the list I described.
And sternguard die to AP3 pie... and don't get back up.
and those sternguard cost 6 more points than my warriors, and 3 less points than immortals
So the sterngaurd won't cause the necrons to stay down, and they'll out number your muscle?
Oh, and those guns get hot.
still, they're better than assault terminators.

The Librarian
Yep, he's good. but if he's taking care of the deciever he's not taking care of the immortals (thus the lord) or the pariahs

Yeah, the lord will still be there, the deceiver, the pariahs would still be there.
If the devastators didn't take care of the scarabs, they'll be in tied combat for the next 3 turns.
I've played that game before, it wasn't easy but it was one of my victories this quarter.
Ten immortals take a lot to bring down. Especially if there is a lord in the mix.
Toughness 5 marines (read pariahs) in cover (read immortals/warriors) are difficult to destroy unless you focus fire.

The only army that can dish-out enough ranged damage to shut down necrons consitantly is Tau.
And that's mainly do to there mobility and there reliability. (and Battlesuits... effin battlesuits)

Marines are better off charging and tank shocking.

I phase out less when my phase-out is below 10. Pariahs help with that.

Your also taking a monolith? 854pts becomes 1089pts so over half your army at least. The Librarian and the stern guard take care of the deceiver in 1 turn (two if the dice gods are against you). would they attack alone? no chance. If you lose the C'tan you have trouble pulling the rest of your army out of CC.

Only thing i can agree with you on is that "Necrons are an uphill battle" though you don't seem to be making it easy for your self.

The lynchpin of a necron force is not to have a lynchpin.
If you kill the Deciever, that's fine since his abilties per-game are worth 100 pts easy.
So in the senario you describe the pariahs will still fill their function.
And a portion of a force will be running & and stern-hammer will be dead.
Since (typically) people shoot the C'tan before the 4x pariah.
Necrons fear scouts, not sternguard.

If my necrons are cc then they are already lost.
Don't waste resources trying to save them.
(with exception of GoF)
You can not reliably save necrons do to SA, since when they die in cc they die in that first phase.
Pariahs/Deceiver/Shroud/Veil are now there to prevent that assault from happening and force your opponent into your advantage. A shooting war. So that you get to use what you paided your points for, WBB

Thanks guys. I think the points cost of the armies being discussed now are MUCH higher than I will be playing. We are at 750points at the moment, with the plan to raise this to 1000 points.

Use Warriors vs. tanks.
Suppression is the most cost effective solution with 5th edition.

I thought this too - and tried this (fairly unsuccessfully) against the Eldar in the last fight. With either cover save for moving >6", or some other cover save, when I glanced on a 6, he tended to save anyway ... I did nothing more than knock his gun out for 1 round repeatedly throughout the game.
With him keeping the majority of his forces in those Wave Serpents ... I just couldn't kill anything in order to gain some kill points.

The scarabs (which I had given disruptor fields, in an attempt to make them an anti tank unit) failed miserably and ended up being easy kill points for the opposition.

Ive got the base unit requirements, VoD, 3 destroyers and a few scarabs for my 750points. With 250 more points, I can go "Monolith" or go for more destroyers. To be fair, the destroyers didn't do any better against the tanks than the warriors did .... especially with "fortune".

My rough feeling is that the monolith would be better against the Eldar (with their tanks) and maybe the extra destroyers would be better against the Orks and Tyranids (my other mates armies) .......

Fletcher wrote: With either cover save for moving >6", or some other cover save, when I glanced on a 6, he tended to save anyway ...

He only gets his save when moving above 12 and if he's doing that he isn't shooting with them (and eldar tanks are expensive).

Don't try to slow it down as if upgraded they shrug of immobilised easily and reduce stunned to shaken.

Belphegor wrote:The lynchpin of a necron force is not to have a lynchpin.
If you kill the Deciever, that's fine since his abilties per-game are worth 100 pts easy.
So in the senario you describe the pariahs will still fill their function.
And a portion of a force will be running & and stern-hammer will be dead.
Since (typically) people shoot the C'tan before the 4x pariah.
Necrons fear scouts, not sternguard.

Scouts? well yes i run those as well but to be honest they're some what sub par against necrons ... but 4x pariah would be one of the units charged (since you can charge more then one target)

If my necrons are cc then they are already lost.
Don't waste resources trying to save them.
(with exception of GoF)
You can not reliably save necrons do to SA, since when they die in cc they die in that first phase.
Pariahs/Deceiver/Shroud/Veil are now there to prevent that assault from happening and force your opponent into your advantage. A shooting war. So that you get to use what you paided your points for, WBB

But they wouldn't prevent me getting into CC.

Most armies will have little trouble with you
IG would laugh at you and completely out shoot you (hell a platoon with power weapons will beat you in CC)
Eldar will run rings round you.
Orks will have you in cc turn 2
SM are a little better then you at every thing.
Tau have the range
Nids slightly slower then orks, might take till turn 3 to get every one into CC

Thanks O'shovah.

He did indeed have it upgraded to reduce stunned to shaken.

I wasn't necessarily trying to slow then down ... I was trying to immobilise them with a glance (admittedly hard to do). How can they "shrug off immobilised?" that doesnt sound good

The problem was, he kept most of his troops in the tanks and drove around with them taking pot shots whenever he could. We were playing annialation, and I just couldn't damage either the tanks, or the troops in the tanks.

But they wouldn't prevent me getting into CC
Orks will have you in cc turn 2
Nids slightly slower they might take till turn 3 to get every one into CC

This is my issue as well. I often hear "if you are in CC as a necron, you are already dead." Great ... so how am I supposed to avoid CC against Orks and 'Nids when they have an effective charge range of over 18"???

Fletcher wrote:How can they "shrug off immobilised?" that doesnt sound good

Vectored Engines. Allows them to treat Immortalised as Immobilised when moving fast rather than assploded.

Gwar! wrote:Too Expensive, don;t count towards Phase out and no WBB.

QFT

Fletcher wrote:
This is my issue as well. I often hear "if you are in CC as a necron, you are already dead." Great ... so how am I supposed to avoid CC against Orks and 'Nids when they have an effective charge range of over 18"???

I suggest deploying on your table edge as the Necron player with all warriors in reserve. Use Elite and Heavy units to try and kill as many approaching units as possible and halt massive assault units with Scarabs.

I missed this the first time ...

Belphegor wrote:
I phase out less when my phase-out is below 10. Pariahs help with that.

WAIT! WHAT? ... phase out is bellow 10? you phase at 25% or less ... 9x4 or 10x4-1 ... you only have 36-39 models which are necron? Are you mad? Thats only 27-30 models to kill, to force phase out. They only get WBB if there is another unit of the same type within 6" and if I'm aiming at a single type i can start by removing the 20 warriors you must have taken. That leaves 7-10 models ... Those must be the immortals with the lord.

Some how i don't think your list phases out at 9 models so lets see a list ...

Well lets be realist about the trukks(i dunno about the eldar transports)
The armor on a trukk is terrible to say the lest. AND its opentopped, so you get a +1 on the chart. Ive had my trukks go down rather easy against my nephews Necrons.