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I've heard here online that you can't do it, but when someone asked me to quote it from the rulebook I couldn't find where it was. Could someone please provide a pagenumber for this?

R.a.W you cannot convert your models at all.

I realise that. However, it is still gona happen. Is there anything though that says they can't model for an advantage? Perhaps in GT rules or something?

arinnoor wrote:I realise that. However, it is still gona happen. Is there anything though that says they can't model for an advantage? Perhaps in GT rules or something?

No, there isn't. It's up to your local club or Tournament to decide if you may or not.

Okay. We'll have to discuss it.

Please post a rules reference stating that models cannot be converted, I don't remember seeing anything that specifically prohibits it.

There is nothing saying you can do it in the rules.

arinnoor wrote:There is nothing saying you can do it in the rules.

This. The rules have to say you CAN do something. Nothing says you CAN convert they Citadel Miniatures, so you cannot.

"It doesn't say I can't" is not an argument, no matter how you dress it up.

Thats nonsense. Its been a staple since RT. Citing exclusion as your sole basis is utterly without merit and frankly will get you laughed at.

Hey, just another gray area in the rules.

Lots of people do it, even though permission to do it doesn't exist in the rules themselves. On top of that, the fluff and hobby sections of the book seem to encourage it (look at the models and stuff in the pictures), even though there's not mention of how much or little conversion is allowed in the rules.

So the page in the rulebook depicting the various converted models is somehow not to be taken as an endorsement of converting figures?

The only correct thing to say about modeling for advantage is that the assembly and conversion of models is not covered by the rules of the game.

Endorsement or not, there is no explanation in the rules as to what degree of conversion either is or is not allowed. For all we know, those depictions of converted models are only there to serve as a display diorama, rather than models to be used in a game.

Personally, I don't have a problem with conversion; I like to do it myself. The only point is that the rules themselves do not actually address the issue.

Frazzled wrote:Thats nonsense. Its been a staple since RT. Citing exclusion as your sole basis is utterly without merit and frankly will get you laughed at.

QFT.

Saldiven wrote:Endorsement or not, there is no explanation in the rules as to what degree of conversion either is or is not allowed. For all we know, those depictions of converted models are only there to serve as a display diorama, rather than models to be used in a game.

Personally, I don't have a problem with conversion; I like to do it myself. The only point is that the rules themselves do not actually address the issue.

Respectfully, the rules don't express wehther its permitted for the players to respire during the game either. Still everyone does. Its almost like it didn't need to be addressed...

Frazzled wrote:

Saldiven wrote:Endorsement or not, there is no explanation in the rules as to what degree of conversion either is or is not allowed. For all we know, those depictions of converted models are only there to serve as a display diorama, rather than models to be used in a game.

Personally, I don't have a problem with conversion; I like to do it myself. The only point is that the rules themselves do not actually address the issue.

Respectfully, the rules don't express wehther its permitted for the players to respire during the game either. Still everyone does. Its almost like it didn't need to be addressed...

I really need to find that link again to the low crawling daemon army.....

yeah,
Please do, I havn't seen it yet.
Panic...

Gwar! wrote:

arinnoor wrote:There is nothing saying you can do it in the rules.

This. The rules have to say you CAN do something. Nothing says you CAN convert they Citadel Miniatures, so you cannot.

"It doesn't say I can't" is not an argument, no matter how you dress it up.

This is a slippery slope. For example:

C:IG never explicitly illustrates what a "Veteran Guardsman" looks like. Based upon this, should we conclude that there is no model for it and as such can not be played?

Gwar! wrote:

arinnoor wrote:There is nothing saying you can do it in the rules.

This. The rules have to say you CAN do something. Nothing says you CAN convert they Citadel Miniatures, so you cannot.

"It doesn't say I can't" is not an argument, no matter how you dress it up.

yeah,
the Rules don't say Gwar may post on dakka, So by RAW we should be seeing less of Gwar around here...


Panic...

Frazzled wrote:

Saldiven wrote:Endorsement or not, there is no explanation in the rules as to what degree of conversion either is or is not allowed. For all we know, those depictions of converted models are only there to serve as a display diorama, rather than models to be used in a game.

Personally, I don't have a problem with conversion; I like to do it myself. The only point is that the rules themselves do not actually address the issue.

Respectfully, the rules don't express wehther its permitted for the players to respire during the game either. Still everyone does. Its almost like it didn't need to be addressed...

Also, respectfully, the sheer number of times that people bring up the subject of converting models to an advantage tells us that the subject is something that should be addressed.

I mean, how many times on these forums has someone asked whether or not it was allowed for their opponent to breathe?

What are you talking about? I question the right of others to breath all the time...

Frazzled wrote:What are you talking about? I question the right of others to breath all the time...

Point taken.

The only point I was trying to make is that it's pretty pointless to ask whether or not "modeling to an advantage" is allowed, because the book doesn't even address the subject.

It falls into one of those many areas where you have to make an agreement at the table, or abide by a judge's opinion at a tournament.

I guess conversions are more of a sportsmanship question than anything. If someone converts a model to look cool then I'm giving it high marks as this is aesthetically pleasing and benefits me as much as the opponent. I get a cool looking model to look at during the game!

Now if my opponent models a one inch wide three foot long battlwagon and deploys it sideways so he can do a pivot move...

Saldiven wrote:

Frazzled wrote:What are you talking about? I question the right of others to breath all the time...

Point taken.

The only point I was trying to make is that it's pretty pointless to ask whether or not "modeling to an advantage" is allowed, because the book doesn't even address the subject.

It falls into one of those many areas where you have to make an agreement at the table, or abide by a judge's opinion at a tournament.

Saldiven and Green Git for the win on this one.

Tournaments-TO's and sportsmanship can handle.
Regular gaming-the old fashioned method of public shaming keeps this in check generally.

Panic wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

arinnoor wrote:There is nothing saying you can do it in the rules.

This. The rules have to say you CAN do something. Nothing says you CAN convert they Citadel Miniatures, so you cannot.

"It doesn't say I can't" is not an argument, no matter how you dress it up.

yeah,
the Rules don't say Gwar may post on dakka, So by RAW we should be seeing less of Gwar around here...


Panic...

You still see Gwars posts?

Modquisitor Frazzled burped:
"Ixnay on the Gwar commentray people."

yeah,
I like the Gwar and Stelek Types... they keep dakka refreshing...

this thread Reminds me of this rhino from the old 40k 4thed magic cylinder dakka article...


Panic...

edit: picture size fix...

Extreme large picture!

yeah,
Sorry I thought dakka auto sized photos now..
or is it that a browser feature?
dunno fixed.
Panic..

Comments in this thread make me


The only ones I question are the sub species called Mouth Breather....

Just thought you guys might appreciate this.



Note that GW Actually encourage you to model your firewarriors crawling along the ground so that they can shoot under your devilfish without granting cover saves... or maybe I'm reading into it too much.