Killin a Nid Hierophant Bio Titan

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**Deuce11**

I may have to face a bio titan in a non Apocalypse game and without any titans or other forge world craziness of my own.

How do you deal with a 1250 pt gargantuan creature in a 2000 pt game with 2000 pts of nilla marines?

I often run two large squads of stern- will their poison rounds still be as effective as they are vs non gargantuan targets?

Help is needed!

**cptjoeyg**

WHo would bring a 1250 pt model to a 2000 pts game?

Are you playing just a friendly game or is it league?

How i would beat it
Step 1- slap the guy for bringing it
Step 2- walk away with the solid victory

**CajunMan550**

I've fought one in an Apoc game where my side was all non apoc stuff if that helps.

It took Yarrick, 4 Russes, 2 Hammerheads, 6 Broad Sides, 4 Lascannons, a basilisk, a GK GM and Retinue of 5 termis and some more SMs.

Ya throw bodies and guns at the mother. And all that was over about 4 turns of repeated fire by most. If your at 2k punch the guy in the face.

**Deuce11**

haha its a friendly game so i'll keep from slapping him. I don't have tons of points but even if I did it seems like 1250 points of normal heavy weaponry would still have a hell of a time taking on titans of any sort. Where do these amazing models fit in a game unless you are weilding your own baneblades?

**Da Boss**

They kinda don't.

**thanatos67**

Step 1:equip vulkan hestan with a vortex grenade
Step 2:stuff vulkan into a drop pod with a full squad of sternguard with combimeltas
Step 3: drop in and take D6 wounds off of the thing then waste it with twin linked meltafire. Shake your opponents hand because he only has 750 points left.

Best part is you can do all of this on turn 1 with drop pod assault.

**dareaper**

im with thanatos67 on this
just nuke it asap
i play guard so droping vets + in points to the super always killes it
drop pods and hit it befor it can do anything

**Deuce11**

i don't know anything about gargantuan creatures other than that they are relentless and can split fire. can they be shot at while locked in assault due to their size? Besides slow movement, are there any drawbacks (since point cost isn't really one in this case)

any one know anything about the Hierophant's special rules

**Iron_Chaos_Brute**

It's the 2nd most powerful (effecitveness/points) unit in the game.
It has 2 8 shot S10 AP3 guns IIRC.
It can't be locked in combat, is immune to psychic powers, has regenerate, has "flechette dischargers", can stomp, and has all the other gargantuan goodies.

**Tri**

Chances are he's not using the Apocalypse rules there are the forgeworld IA rules http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/pdf/hierophant.pdf This version comes in at only 835pts (+upgrades) and IMHO is a whole lot more powerful ... its only down side is its only T8, with 5 wounds and has only 5 attacks.

Note that it's gun cause large blasts rather then 8 shots and it has 3 mass points , just think of these like void shields.

All I can say is against ether one you want lots of ranged fire power ... This is the one and only time I will suggest taking devastators with missile launchers and/or LasCannons ... Or you may want to take Vulkan and melta them to death, this is far more risky.

**Da Boss**

Using superheavies in non-narrative games is a bad idea. What do you want to achieve with this game?
Because if it's just "who wins" you take a vortex grenade and pop that biotitan.
Otherwise, there should be a story or a special scenario.

**Deuce11**

Thanks for those rules, Tri.

This stuff is nuts

**extrenm(54)**

at 2000 points, that thing will be almost impossible kill. Because of this, I would simply not shoot at it, and instead, kill the other stuff, which is actually mortal.

f at the end of the game your opponent has just a Bio-titan left, then he can't hold objectives. However, leaving this thing alive for 5-7 turns could result in the destruction of your whole army, so its a tough choice either way...

**LunaHound**

How about shadow sword with that D weapon?

**Horst**

meh, it wouldn't be THAT bad. spend a comparable points costs in predator annihilators. , or in devastators w/ lascannons.

you could buy 4 4 lascannon dev squads for that cost. that'd probably put it down in 1 turn... maybe 2 at the most. bio titans are easier to kill, because its easier to wound than to penetrate a vehicle like a titan.

**thehod**

thunderhammer stormshield terminators can handle it. Throw in 10-15 and include Kantor for +1 attack and stubborn. A bio-titan has nothing to stop +3 saves and can only stomp or attack. Remember you do leave combat afterwards but the S8 with 4 attacks on the charge might put a real hurting on it.

**Norade**

Yeah, Termies with TH/SS would ruin its day really quick. Sternguad vets with fists would also be really mean.

For guard I'd use a trio of camo netted Manticores backed by Vendetta Gunships and mounted vets with meltas.

Tau, 3 maxed teams of shield droned Broadsides.

Necrons, massed Gauss fire... IDK

Eldar, Jetlock councils with their witchblades and Fire Dragons.

DE, masses of D Lances will ruin anybodies day.

Nids, Nidzilla and stealers.

Chaos Daemons, fate crusher with rail tongues.

CSM, Oblits and Termies.

Sisters, Meltas and Exorcists.

Daemon Hunters, insta gib force weapons of doom. One hit that sucker.

Movie Marines!

**Tri**

Norade have you read the rules for the IA Hierophant? i'll copy and past the key bit

Tyranid Mass Point Rules
The rules for Mass Points are part of the ‘Tyranid Monstrosities – A guide to spawning’ article from White Dwarf 255 which was reproduced in Chapter Approved 2002. As they are difficult to find, I have reproduced them here.
Large creatures, which are the equivalent size of war machines, are referred to as Gargantuan creatures to distinguish them from Monstrous Creatures. To represent their immense bulk, Gargantuan creatures have Mass points. Mass points serve a similar purpose to War Machine’s structure points.
When a Gargantuan creature is attacked, the weapon used may not be capable of inflicting serious damage to such a large creature. A Gargantuan Creature’s mass points must be reduced to zero before any normal wounds can be lost. Mass points are lost by inflicting serious wounds. Each serious wound inflicts 1 Mass point of damage. A Titan-killer weapon inflicts D3 Mass points damage.
The severity of a wound is only considered after a successful Wound roll is made and a saving throw (if any) attempted. Ordnance, massive or mega-weapons with strength equal to or greater than the creature’s toughness will always inflict serious wounds. Other weapons with Strength equal to or greater than the creature’s toughness will inflict serious wounds on a 4+. In all other circumstances the wounds is serious on a 6.

It has 3 Mass points. You can't ruin its day till you destroyed these. What you do is roll to hit roll, roll to wound, it takes a 2+ armour save (well ok most things are going to be AP1-2 so its only going to be the 5+ inv) then you've still only got a 50-50 chance of wounding. 1 in 6 if you hit it with something only str7.

**Grunt_For_Christ**

This is really strange... Regardless of the ruleset being played, this sounds like a bad idea. I frequently play with a biotitan and with 6,000 pts per side it can take a LOT of fire and survive. Needing 4's at best makes it damn near impossible to destroy. At least without something amazing on your side that resembles something you'd find in apoc. it'll be hard to destroy. I think you should reconsider this because without a super heavy of your own you probably won't be having a fun time unless you field several lascannon tanks and devastators and other specials like sternguard and concentrate everything you have on it.

**Tri**

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:This is really strange... Regardless of the ruleset being played, this sounds like a bad idea. I frequently play with a biotitan and with 6,000 pts per side it can take a LOT of fire and survive. Needing 4's at best makes it damn near impossible to destroy. At least without something amazing on your side that resembles something you'd find in apoc. it'll be hard to destroy. I think you should reconsider this because without a super heavy of your own you probably won't be having a fun time unless you field several lascannon tanks and devastators and other specials like sternguard and concentrate everything you have on it.

I hell i agree but the thing is if he is taking the AI version that leaves 1165pts; a good few points and even if he only take gaunts with WON he wins. I mean he brings ether its going to be a case off aiming for a draw.

**sourclams**

Shrike and 3 squads of Assault Terminators would put paid to this thing pretty easily, methinks.

**Canonness Rory**

Scouts with sniper rifles.

2000 points of them.

**Tri**

Canonness Rory wrote:Scouts with sniper rifles.

2000 points of them.

All snipers and poison weapons only roll a wound on a 6 (edit against gargantuan creatures)... so its do able just not that effective.

**Norade**

I was assuming the Apocalypse version, I would never agree to play against the other version and nothing could be points effective against it how it is priced.

Actually, looking again at the IA rules, I see nothing saying that it is immune to Instant Death or Psychic powers, so PBS and Assassin it and watch it instantly die as it's effective toughness becomes 2.

**Tri**

Norade wrote:Actually, looking again at the IA rules, I see nothing saying that it is immune to Instant Death or Psychic powers, so PBS and Assassin it and watch it instantly die as it's effective toughness becomes 2.

True but it has mass points ... You'd auto hit it, 2+ to wounda 5+ inv and then 50-50 you remove a mass point and next turn it evaporates the assassin. As i said the IA one is IMHO way more powerful then the apoc version

**Norade**

Use that as a finishing blow then, 3 Manticores, a Full PBS, and an assassin. It's so huge you'll score more hits than normal and three launchers will fire six shots, scoring 3.8 hits and like as not wounding and insta removing a mass point each hit. Then assassin finishes him. Case solved.

**Tri**

Norade wrote:Use that as a finishing blow then, 3 Manticores, a Full PBS, and an assassin. It's so huge you'll score more hits than normal and three launchers will fire six shots, scoring 3.8 hits and like as not wounding and insta removing a mass point each hit. Then assassin finishes him. Case solved.

Manticortes .... sounds good but they're AP4 so he gets a 2+ armour save against them.

**devilkin**

Canonness Rory wrote:Scouts with sniper rifles.

2000 points of them.

Best answer to this I've seen yet. I use this on carni's, it's heinous

**Canonness Rory**

Tri wrote:
Canonness Rory wrote:Scouts with sniper rifles.

2000 points of them.
All snipers and poison weapons only roll a wound on a 6 (edit against gargantuan creatures)... so its do able just not that effective.

That was a joke.

Though 2000 points of scouts is 153 scouts.
That's 77 hits.
Or 13 wounds, No armor saves.
3 mass points gone.
+ 6 Wounds.

Next turn it dies.

**crazypsyko666**

So you're playing as SM? Three LandRaiders. As many high toughness/multiple wound characters as you can, and as many long-range high power weapons as you can stuff into it.