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trying to make competitive list:

c&c welcome!

hq

1 warboss, power klaw, attack squig, cybork body, bosspole - 115
1 big mek, kff - 85
200

elites

15 lootas - 225
15 lootas - 225
450

troops

10 nobz, cybork bodys, painboy, waaagh banner, 3 power klaw, bosspole - 375
1 battlewagon, reinforced ram, grot riggers, big shoota - 105 (warboss)

19 shootaboyz
(1) big shoota
(1) nob, power klaw, bosspole - 159 (big mek)

20 shootaboyz
(2) big shoota
(1) nob, power klaw, bosspole - 170

20 Gretchins
2 Runtherd - 80
889

heavy support

1 battlewagon, reinforced ram, grot riggers, big shoota - 105 (shootaboyz/big mek)
1 battlewagon, reinforced ram, grot riggers, big shoota - 105 (shootaboyz)
210

1749


Automatically Appended Next Post:
anyone?

I presume the warboss is going with the nobz, if so the nobz have a boss pole. You might plan to dettach the warboss, but you want to take a wound on your HQ model in order to re-roll the morale test? I think a warboss has a decent leadership anyway. So no need for bosspole if the boss is going with the nobz.

Other than that seems ok.

change up the nobz war gear so they can like longer!

Here goes.

1. Always play Orks with a Theme in mind. Unfortunately, most ork players don't seem to understand the principle of picking a theme and exploiting the whole purpose of the Ork Codex; which is to provide you a LOT of different playstyles, not to take one piece of every playstyle and cobble it together and attempt to call it an army. Reading through your army list, I see that your "theme" is mechanized shooty thunderous terrifying dakka (with a couple of things that don't fit so much)

Check!

2. If you're going to go shooty, make it SHOOTY. You don't want "erm...dakka dakka" You don't even want "dakka dakka dakka dakka" You want "WTFDAKKADAKKAOMGLOLDAKKADAKKAMOARDICEDAKKADAKKASTILLMYTURNDAKKADAKKADAKKADAKKADAKKAURDEADNOWDAKKADAKKA".

With that theme in mind, I firmly believe that the core of every such army begins with three squads of 15 Lootas. Model-wise, if you don't have 45 Lootas, don't panic. The codex says that Lootas just have the biggest guns they can find. If they biggest guns you can find are shootas....so be it. Take three squads of Lootas - go big or go home. I've done terrifying things with a Shooty Ork army list, and as someone with almost 10,000 points worth of Tau, believe me when I say that a dedicated Ork shooty army can outshoot a Tau army list. I tend to switch around the kind of mechanized shooty that you have though. Think about this for a minute: The Ork boy armed with a shoota is pretty much the most efficient model in 40k in terms of cost and capability. Here's what I would urge you to do differently:

You've got three battlewagons in your list already. Put three squads of Lootas into those battlewagons, stick them on your back table edge, put the Big mek with the KFF in the middle battlewagon (his range of control extends to the edges of the battlewagon, giving you a six inch bubble beyond that to touch anything you like. Array them in a trident formation like this \|/ which presents front armor across the board unless something is on your side of the board to try catching side armor. That way, if someone does shoot at your front battlewagon trying to tag side armor, you'll get a 3+ cover save from them being in the arc, but not able to see it. Aside from that, the Mek with the KFF is going to be presenting the rest of your battlewagons with a 4+ cover save.

Lemme break down the numbers for you.

The most common tank killing weapon in the game is the Lascannon, so we'll work with that. Someone shoots you with a Lascannon, needing a 3+ to hit (66.7% chance). Strength 9 against AV14 means they need 5 to glance, 6 to penetrate. They have a 33% chance to glance, and a 16.7% chance to penetrate. You have a cover save on a 4+, giving you a 50% chance to laugh your opponent off. At this point, here's the statistics:

Chance for a glance: 11%
Chance for a penetrate: 5.56%

Since Lootas can't shoot if you move, those battlewagons are stationary anyway. That means you don't care about anything less than destroyed or explodes. Even if you suffer an immobilized or weapon destroyed result, your Big Mek has a 50% chance to repair it with his Mek's tools, and I like giving him an oiler or two to reroll those. A Glance suffers a -2 result, but you're open topped for a +1 to the penetration table, for a total of -1 to the roll; you only care if your opponent rolls a 6. On the penetrate table, rolling a 4,5,6 means you're boned because you're open topped. Applying those statistics here

Chance for Glance to meaningfully hurt you in total: 1.8%
Chance for a penetrate to meaningfully hurt you in total: 2.78%

Think about that for a minute. You have an open-topped firebase, 45 Lootas that can stretch across the table for firepower getting D3 shots per turn. If you want to get REAL crazy (but drop your Loota count to 12) you can put a Killakannon on top of your battlewagons for some template love; I generally don't do this because its not an efficient use of points. Think on that for a minute. This is so powerful its almost unfair. I've posted in a few different places that I have a ludicrous win record with my Orks (which internet anonymous busy bodies scoff at of course) but this type of firebase and exploiting the strength of Orks is part of the reason I terrorize on the table.

3. Now that you have an effective firebase that is literally indestructible, you have to protect yourself from getting ganked by flanking/infiltrating assault. Use those Gretchin and surround your Battlewagons. 29 Gretchin + 2 Runtherders costs 107 points. Surround your battlewagons. If they have any cover, they'll get a 4+. If not, keep some of them in 6" of the KFF so the unit gets a 5+ cover save, and keep them "gone to ground" so they get +1 to their cover save. Now nothing can sneak up on your battlewagons and take a chunk out of rear armor. In terms of weaponry....I tend to put a Kannon on every battlewagon (10 points of love, STR8 AP3 single shot or small blast) and give my battlewagons rokkit launchers. You have enough dakka that you don't need more big shootas; you need the ability to kill rhinos and possibly affect predators, land raiders, or IG tanks.

4. That brings us to your boyz. Your shoota boyz are going to be on foot (unless you have more battlewagons), but take them in units of 30. 29 Shoota boyz and a nob with a powerklaw. Depending on point breakdown, I might not even worry about big shootas. Two squads of shoota boyz puts you at three troop choices and severely increases your dakka power. Its a little awkward mixing mechanized and foot-slogging but you'll master it, and I absolutely despise putting shoota boyz into vehicles; its a waste. If I put ork boyz into a vehicle, its to get them into close combat as fast as possible, meaning that they're slugga boyz, and not probably shooting anyway.


5. That brings us to your Warboss and the nobs. In an assault based army, or even a mechanized assault based army, they're the lynchpin to your success; in a shooting based army, they're divisive to your forces; if 1/3 of your army assaults forward while 2/3 of your army does not, the entire enemy army is going to eat that 1/3 of your army. That's honestly the biggest reason I win almost all of my games - my Orks look for a way to divide and conquer and are almost never let down. Don't voluntarily divide your own army up for your enemies.

6. Your HQ choices: With a shooting army, you can't go wrong with a Big Mek and a KFF (already explained), and then either a Big Mek with a shokk attack gun or a weirdboy/Zogwort. Zogwort is immensely powerful; the ability to turn an enemy IC into a squig with the flip of a dice is awesome. But if you're going shooty, go shooty.

7. A lot of folks like to mix in Killa-kans (with Grotzookas) along with the shooty army. If you check my gallery, I made some grotzookas for our killa kans out of the exhaust port that goes on the battlewagon and the gretchin that come with biker orks. Consider that, or using the troop slots that big meks open up for deff dreads to add some mechanized dakka.

8. And since you have ridiculous amounts of dakka in here, the only real missing element is....tank killing. Land Raiders suck for any ork army regardless of powerklaws / rokkits / tankbustas. Depending on your point breakdown, take some Deffkoptas. Do NOT give them buzzklaws; its a faux-powerklaw and a waste of points. Consider taking three units of 1 DeffKopta with twin-linked rokkits on each, and holding them in reserve to bring them on from the sides so you can hit enemy rear / side armor.

I'd be willing to put that army down in front of anyone and bet money that I could beat them. I might lose my money against mechanized IG, but through a combination of luck, skill, and opponent decisions in various arenas, I haven't lost against them with the new codex, although my "wins" have been a series of minor victories and cheesy squeaky wins eked out.

"The most common tank killing weapon in the game is the Lascannon, so we'll work with that. Someone shoots you with a Lascannon, needing a 3+ to hit (66.7% chance). Strength 9 against AV14 means they need 5 to glance, 6 to penetrate. They have a 33% chance to glance, and a 16.7% chance to penetrate. You have a cover save on a 4+, giving you a 50% chance to laugh your opponent off. At this point, here's the statistics:

Chance for a glance: 11%
Chance for a penetrate: 5.56% "

You make some interesting and useful points. However, the one I quoted appears to be based off of local play. This was a good mindset in 3rd edition and somewhat, of 4th edition. In 5th, Melta (or other AP1 ranged attack) is what is king in anti tank. Against Battlewagons, AP1 attacks are getting a +2 bonus on the damage chart (+1 open top, +1 AP1) You can set up tactics to defend against this, but this can lead to some horrible bunching up of Boyz which makes the ripe for templates. Melta hitting Battlewagons makes for a very bad day, KFF or not.

Additionally, putting 45 Lootas in 3 Battlewagons is really playing rock/paper/scissors. And Space Marines (most commonly played army) is one army that can trump this build very, very easily.

I'm not arguing that this strategy is the best Ork army list in creation, or that it doesn't have counters; all of 40k is a game of rock paper scissors. I happen to play my Orks differently, and there are many valid playstyles for Orks...many different themes that work well.

But if someone wants to build a shooty army, this is an extremely powerful base of fire; those gretchin on foot and the two squads of 30 shoota boyz I'm suggesting do more than take up troop slots; I also suggested onioning them around the battlewagons to prevent those meltas from getting into 2D6 range.

Everyone plays a bit differently; some people swear by an ork kan wall, others by mechanized orks, or by stormboyz, or etc.

second list 1750, more fun themed:

c&c Welcome!




hq

1 warboss, bike, power klaw, attack squig, cybork body, bosspole - 155
1 big mek, kff - 85
240

elites

12 lootas - 180
180

troops

8 nobz, bikes, cybork bodys, painboy, waaagh banner, 2 skorcha, 2 big choppa, 3 power klaw, bosspole - 545 (warboss)

19 shootaboyz
(1) big shoota
(1) nob, power klaw, bosspole - 159 (big mek)

20 shootaboyz
(2) big shoota
(1) nob, power klaw, bosspole - 170

20 Gretchins
2 Runtherd - 80
954

heavy support

1 battlewagon, reinforced ram, grot riggers, big shoota - 105 (shootaboyz/big mek)
1 battlewagon, reinforced ram, grot riggers, big shoota - 105 (shootaboyz)
1 battlewagon, ard case, kill kannon - 165
375

1749

herm... I think the points on your nobz is off. Oh wait, bikers...

Honestly, a battlewagon w/ nobz in it is better than bikernobz. Its far cheaper, and it can soak up a metric assload of fire in some games. Bikes just seem... unnecessary and expensive

i just read what you peeps said about my army and suggestions. thx, now im interested in designing somethin new i have not tested, so i plan 3x lootas and killkannons

c&c welcome!

edited:

hq

1 big mek, shokk attack gun - 95
1 big mek, kff - 85
180

elites

15 lootas - 225
15 lootas - 225
15 lootas - 225
675

troops

30 shootaboyz
(1) nob, power klaw, bosspole - 220

29 shootaboyz
(1) nob, power klaw, bosspole - 214

10 Gretchins
1 Runtherd - 40
474

fast attack

1 deffkopta, tl-rl - 45
1 deffkopta, tl-rl - 45
1 deffkopta, tl-rl - 45
135

heavy support

1 battlewagon, big shoota - 95
1 battlewagon, big shoota - 95
1 battlewagon, big shoota - 95
285

1749

i may be wrong as i'm at work and don't have the dex with me, but i thought only one battlewagon per army could have a killkannon?

:EDIT:

yep, i'm wrong ^_^ heh

Alright, a few thoughts to make on your revised army list.

You have the foundation for a shooty army, but it needs tweaking.

1. If your battlewagon suffers a weapon destroyed, you lose your killakannon. (And yes, you can have more than one per army). In the grand scheme of things, a Killakannon isn't really worth its points, but experiment on your own.

2. Taking a killakannon reduces transport capacity to 12. You want your Big mek with a KFF inside the battlewagon protected...that means you need to leave room for him. My advice: If you're going to try an army list using killakannons on your battlewagons, try it with one, not three. One battlewagon with a Killakannon; having less than 15 Lootas per unit feels wasted, so put something else in that middle battlewagon. Put a Mek with a KFF, a Mek with a Shokk attack gun, and a squad of Flash Gits (some truly dakka guys, albeit expensive and inefficient).

You really do want 15 Lootas per unit where possible. If you compare the Killakannon at 60 points and being STR7 AP3 to any other large blast template weapon in terms of cost and results....its ineffective. Just a thought.

You need 1 Runtherder per 10 gretchin. Take 19 gretchin or 29 gretchin to maximize efficiency.

You're not using a kan wall, you don't really need a second Mek with a KFF. One will do.

And at this point, those 20 boy mobs....you really want 30 boy mobs, not 20 boy mobs.

howdy about tis one?

hq

1 Ghazghkull Thraka - 225
1 warboss, bike, power klaw, attack squig, cybork body, bosspole - 155
380

troops

5 nobz, bikes, cybork bodys, painboy, waaagh banner, power klaw, bosspole - 325 (warboss)

5 Meganobz - 200 (Ghazghkull Thraka)
1 battlewagon, reinforced ram, grot riggers, big shoota - 105

20 shootaboyz
(2) big shoota
(1) nob, power klaw, bosspole - 170

20 shootaboyz
(2) big shoota
(1) nob, power klaw, bosspole - 170

15 Gretchins
1 Runtherd - 55
1025

fast attack

1 deffkopta, tl-rl - 45
1 deffkopta, tl-rl - 45
1 deffkopta, tl-rl - 45
135

heavy support

1 battlewagon, reinforced ram, grot riggers, big shoota - 105 (shootaboyz)
1 battlewagon, reinforced ram, grot riggers, big shoota - 105 (shootaboyz)
210

1750


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i try to build competitive fun army? is this like that...?

Dashofpepper wrote:Here goes.

1. Always play Orks with a Theme in mind. Unfortunately, most ork players don't seem to understand the principle of picking a theme and exploiting the whole purpose of the Ork Codex; which is to provide you a LOT of different playstyles, not to take one piece of every playstyle and cobble it together and attempt to call it an army. Reading through your army list, I see that your "theme" is mechanized shooty thunderous terrifying dakka (with a couple of things that don't fit so much)

The codex pretty much spells this out with their army examples. It actually describes what a KoS army or green tide army looks like. The codex was designed to be played this way so don't be shy about taking advantage of that OP.

Dashofpepper wrote:Everyone plays a bit differently; some people swear by an ork kan wall, others by mechanized orks, or by stormboyz, or etc.

I swear that Kan walls are the best.

I think in your newest list you really wants all slugga boyz in those wagons. Everything in your army is now assault minded except your boyz which is the core of your army.

Gretchin don't make sense since they won't be riding in anything. They will be left by themselves defenseless to get picked off. I like gretchin in footsloggin armies where they can be speed bumbs and bullet shields (also late game objective grabbers). Here they seem out of theme.

thx, i made some fixes. huoh, i cant decide what kind of mech army i like, this is latest version----->

c&c welcome!



hq

1 Ghazghkull Thraka - 225
1 big mek, kff - 85
310

troops

10 nobz, painboy, cybork bodys, waaagh banner, 3 power klaws - 370
1 battlewagon, reinforced rams, armour plates, grot riggers, big shoota - 115 (warboss)

19 slugga&choppa
(1) nob, power klaw, bosspole - 154 (big mek)

20 slugga&choppa
(1) nob, power klaw, bosspole - 160

20 slugga&choppa
(1) nob, power klaw, bosspole - 160
959

fast attack

1 deffkopta, tl-rl - 45
1 deffkopta, tl-rl - 45
1 deffkopta, tl-rl - 45
135

heavy support

1 battlewagon, reinforced rams, armour plates, grot riggers, big shoota - 115 (slugga&choppa/big mek)
1 battlewagon, reinforced rams, armour plates, grot riggers, big shoota - 115 (slugga&choppa)
1 battlewagon, reinforced rams, armour plates, grot riggers, big shoota - 115 (slugga&choppa)
345

1749

boring, so i made this list: i got kanwall and bw bash toys, so i put them in to make hybrid, what do you think about this?

c&c welcome!



hq

1 warboss, power klaw, attack squig, cyborg body, bosspole - 115
1 big mek, kff - 85
200

troops

10 nobz, painboy, cybork bodys, waaagh banner, 2 power klaws - 345
1 battlewagon, reinforced rams, armour plates, grot riggers, big shoota - 115 (warboss)

18 slugga&choppa
(1) nob, power klaw, bosspole - 148 (big mek)

30 shootaboyz
(3) big shoota
(1) nob, power klaw, bosspole - 235

30 shootaboyz
(3) big shoota
(1) nob, power klaw, bosspole - 235
1078

fast attack

2 deffkoptas, tl-rl - 90
90

heavy support

3 killa kan, grotzookas - 135
3 killa kan, grotzookas - 135
1 battlewagon, reinforced rams, armour plates, big shoota - 110 (slugga&choppa/big mek)
380

1748

can this be played like hammer and anvil?